Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · Oct 22, 2009, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Which ever way you look at it depending upon how they are even rating the POOL as some skills should fall into a certain category within the deck, easiest way to explain it is a skills powerlevel and that's subjective to whomever is making the categories and putting the skills into them.

In the end it's still going to resemble poker.

I Angra I · Oct 22, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I've only skimmed this thread but this is the bottom line: If they aren't mirrored decks, teams will consistently lose because of the deck they got, not because of how well they can play. That is not fun and will ruin the format.

DreamWind · Oct 22, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

What you're suggesting is that people form a team, repool until they get a good mix of skills, and then go in and trash everyone without as much luck/patience as they have.

There would obviously be a repool limit (ie you have to play at least a certain number of matchs before you can repool again).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

The point of SD in my opinion is to emphasize player skill and creativity over effectiveness at running wiki/meta type builds. Luck in getting a good deck shouldn't be a factor. I want to play Guild Wars, not poker.

It does still emphasize player skill...I don't understand how it doesn't (perhaps this is coming from a mtg player who has seen the better players constantly winning sealed deck tournaments there regardless of randomness). If anything, mirror decks and weekly changes completely get rid of creativity though, because the "best" builds will be discovered very quickly and it will be constant mirror matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

If they aren't mirrored decks, teams will consistently lose because of the deck they got, not because of how well they can play. That is not fun and will ruin the format.

I've already stated my case in this thread, but I will just say that I completely disagree with your point of view. I will bold this for emphasis so I can come back to it later when it comes true: If it is mirror decks, the format will not last.

moriz · Oct 22, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

reiterate your point then. i don't see why it would be the case, as long as the decks gets refreshed frequently enough.

I Angra I · Oct 22, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I've already stated my case in this thread, but I will just say that I completely disagree with your point of view. I will bold this for emphasis so I can come back to it later when it comes true: If it is mirror decks, the format will not last.

No one who actually plays PvP seriously will care about sealed deck if it isn't mirror decks. Losing because of drawing a bad deck equates to RA and losing because your team sucks because it's random. It will never be taken seriously and will only serve as a place for PvEers to screw around in. I don't know if that is what you want or not, but that is how it will be.

Mirrored decks, if changed on a regular basis, will not get stale at all in the competitive PvP community because it will actually be a format then, that rewards player skill.

I guess if you are looking at it like AB or RA then sure, by all means not having mirrored decks won't matter. Maybe it's just a conflict of interest though. I'd rather not have yet another mindless, completely random PvP arena like RA and AB are though, and would much instead prefer a competitive arena like TA and HB (in early stages at least) were.

Monibu · Oct 22, 2009, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Im thinking sealed deck skills will vary each day... kindve like the zaishen quests but more variety... after about 5/6 weeks everyone will call sealed deck lame and pointless. Im guessing that every day there will be a new set of skills to choose from depending on your proffessions (when you zone in) and you can (obviously) only choose from these skills :P It wont be luck... it will be people using their brains, and choosing what skills they could use and how they can use it... no poker involved :P

DreamWind · Oct 22, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

reiterate your point then. i don't see why it would be the case, as long as the decks gets refreshed frequently enough.

I made it in an earlier post. Basically the format will get stale very quickly depending on how they do it. If they take my suggestions from my first post in this thread, it will probably work. If they use what they have been telling us they are going to do, it won't work. This is my theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

No one who actually plays PvP seriously will care about sealed deck if it isn't mirror decks.

Tell that to mtg players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

Mirrored decks, if changed on a regular basis, will not get stale at all in the competitive PvP community because it will actually be a format then, that rewards player skill.

Which it will be if it is balanced (mirror decks or not). If it is not balanced, it will simply be another inbalanced format regardless of what we are discussing here.

I Angra I · Oct 22, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

because mtg has the same cards as gw does skills, where 30 cards are ridiculously powerful and all of the rest do absolutely nothing, right

*lemming* · Oct 22, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Tell that to mtg players.

Sealed Deck is almost never used as a serious limited format.

DreamWind · Oct 22, 2009, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

because mtg has the same cards as gw does skills, where 30 cards are ridiculously powerful and all of the rest do absolutely nothing, right

Which game has 30 ridiculously powerful cards/skills and the rest doing nothing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Sealed Deck is almost never used as a serious limited format.

Pro qualifiers and grand prix aren't serious limited formats?

Kaon · Oct 22, 2009, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Which game has 30 ridiculously powerful cards/skills and the rest doing nothing?

Guild Wars. Basically whichever team gets word of healing automatically wins unquestionably. Mirrored sealed decks changed on a regular basis is fantastic. I have played sealed deck dozens of times and not once have 2 teams used exactly the same builds. People always approach their deck differently. If you think nonmirrored sealed deck is going to work you clearly do not know how guild wars works and how imbalanced it really is.

DreamWind · Oct 22, 2009, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

If you think nonmirrored sealed deck is going to work you clearly do not know how guild wars works and how imbalanced it really is.

I know how guild wars works. The problem is nobody knows how sealed deck works. The whole idea is the game/pools are supposed to be at least somewhat balanced. But since Anet probably has no intention of balancing the game/format, perhaps your argument is fair enough. I still stand by my earlier statement though....I doubt it will last in its form they are proposing.

Kaon · Oct 22, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I know how guild wars works. The problem is nobody knows how sealed deck works. The whole idea is the game/pools are supposed to be at least somewhat balanced. But since Anet probably has no intention of balancing the game/format, perhaps your argument is fair enough. I still stand by my earlier statement though....I doubt it will last in its form they are proposing.

Well all they have to do is change decks on a very regular basis, and then it will never become stale. The thing is they probably won't.

Another issue that's been bothering me is what they're actually going to do with it. Is it going to be team arenas or some kind of 4v4 hero battles. The problem with the team arena thing is a team can just keep running away.

DarkNecrid · Oct 22, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Well all they have to do is change decks on a very regular basis, and then it will never become stale. The thing is they probably won't.

Another issue that's been bothering me is what they're actually going to do with it. Is it going to be team arenas or some kind of 4v4 hero battles. The problem with the team arena thing is a team can just keep running away.

The pool changes every week and it's 4v4 teams of human players like TA.

IninefingersI · Oct 22, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

I don't think sealed deck is a new concept. Anet has been using them for their live tournaments forever.

Revelations · Oct 22, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

The pool changes every week

Is this confirmed? And do you have a source?

Depressing news if so. The pool needs to be mixed up far more often than that. Things are going to get very stale by the end of the week.

moriz · Oct 22, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

dreamwind should stop comparing GW's sealed deck to MTG's sealed deck. two different games, two different set of requirements, therefore two different set of rules.

the mirrored deck should change after every day in fact. every week is not often enough.

Kaon · Oct 22, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Is this confirmed? And do you have a source?

Depressing news if so. The pool needs to be mixed up far more often than that. Things are going to get very stale by the end of the week.

Linsey said it in one of her posts on wiki I think. It's retarded but expected. Anyone that thinks this is going to be implemented properly is a fool. Anet has never ever done anything pvp related properly.

Revelations · Oct 22, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Linsey said it in one of her posts on wiki I think. It's retarded but expected. Anyone that thinks this is going to be implemented properly is a fool. Anet has never ever done anything pvp related properly.

I sure as hell never expected anything better. But until now I did at least have my hope to cling to, feeble as it was.

IninefingersI · Oct 22, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Part of the reason they are making this change to 4v4 is to conserve resources. If that is actually the case, it doesnt make much sense that they would want to expend even more resources by doing a daily update to change decks.