Curse

Shayne Hawke · Sep 10, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

If both teams are given the same skills, I can forsee a lot of mirror builds taking place. I'm not so crazy about that idea.

Yawgmoth · Sep 21, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

If it's really weekly skill pools then it's only going to be fun the first day, when no obv best team builds will be found yet. Day 2-7 will be pure copycat and infinite mirror matches = extreme boring. Even if the skill pool is deep enough to allow a few viable builds and bringing some counters to the build everyone's running, there will be not enough variation for a whole week of play. The best part of Sealed is the buildmaking, breaking the new format that reinvents itself with every new skill pool.

What I really hope for is ATS with every team getting different skill pool.

lord of all tyria · Sep 21, 2009, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

What I really hope for is ATS with every team getting different skill pool.

Please say you meant every round. Because I'd be really annoyed losing because the other team's deck got WoH.

Borat_Best_Player · Sep 21, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Both have advantages and disadvantages:

Mirrored play:

Well obviously top teams will soon find out the "best" gimmick builds to make out of the given pools, and thus you'll have exact mirror builds. This means that Build Wars will be a definite history. On the counterside, this will make matches rather boring, but with only X amounts of builds, 1 is obviously going to be the best one. (And the one everyone will run)

Non-mirrored play:

Well, kinda obious: One team gets WoH, Primal Rage, and Cripshot.

Other team gets Balthazar's Pendulum, Cleave and Archer's Signet.

Ra ra ra, who's gonna win?

The internal skill balance in GW (Within each profession) is to off for this to really be fair. Sure, both teams will most likely get 1 or 2 "strong" templates, but it still will come down to whoever gets most usefull skills.

Non mirrored play only works when EVERY elite and skill in this game is usefull. Sadly, this is not the case. (I can imagine teams loosing because they only get useless elites)

Morgoth the dark · Sep 21, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

Think of Sealed Deck like this, for a moment, if you would: What if a player only had 2 out of the 5 skill sets available (Core and either Proph, Fac, or Nightfall)? Let's go with extremes and say that this player only had Prophecies (It has the lowest skill count because there are only six professions). He gets the 241 core skills, and the 214 Prophecies skills. This gives the player a total of 455 skills out of 1235 in the game.

(455 / 1235) * 100 = 63.14

What this means is: if you pick one skill at random, there is a 63% chance that he can't use it.

(63 / 100) * 20 = 12.6

Now what this means is: if you deal that player 20 skills (as in Sealed Deck), statistically, either twelve or thirteen of them will be unusable.

This is a problem, and the solution is not "deal with it", or "use the alternatives".

And it's not just a problem in Sealed either. It's a problem with every format in the game: having to shell out more money to ANet to stay competitive (Patient Spirit, Cure Hex, etc). Granted, it's a brilliant marketing ploy, but it doesn't work when the game is over four years old.

That's comforting.

basicly it's the players problem not having the expansion, not anets...

Fourex · Sep 23, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Mirrored or its just gambling for a good deck.

Daily deck change or staleness/boredom --> every one leaves Sealed play anyway.

Make it 3 elite and 17 standard skills per profession per deck and you have have daily fun on tap. (numbers could be tweaked was just taking a decent stab at it)

erk · Oct 03, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Any idea when this sealed deck thing is supposed to happen?

Anet said they were waiting till after the Sep mAT.

Kaon · Oct 04, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Next week hopefully. Of course don't put all your hopes on it.

ump · Oct 10, 2009, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Any situation where you know what skills are going to be available (whether weekly or daily) is going to be bad as some will gain an advantage and know what to run. I think there should be mini tournaments, of 3-4 rounds total (so limited to 8 or 16 teams per tourny) with the same skills for each team (to eliminate luck on drawing better skills) and different, random skills per tourny so each sealed play is different.

Darth The Xx · Oct 15, 2009, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I think it will be interesting. However as soon a decent elite, such as WoH comes up or like Dev Hammer creative builds go out the window. I mean i've gotten to 10 wins in RA with nothing but arcane echo and WoH on my bar so I don't see how this'll be much different but definately fun.

Also totally support ATs for this format, gives casual players a way to get TRPs without playing the retarded gayness that is HB.

DreamWind · Oct 15, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Hmm...I just noticed this thread a month late. Oh well.

I'm amazed at the amount of people that don't know what sealed deck is in this thread (almost none of you). Sealed deck is absolutely 100% NOT mirrored decks nor should it be. Anybody who has played MTG should know this...if it is mirrored decks it is going to be boring as shit and dead VERY fast (trust me I have tried it). Mark my words on that statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

From what I heard at the PAX Dev party it will be 4v4 with player formed teams, mirrored decks, and weekly deck changes.

Apparently Anet doesn't know what sealed deck is either? Which is weird because didn't they just hire a guy from WoTC? Nevertheless...4v4 with player formed teams is good. Mirrored decks is bad. Weekly deck changes is awful.

Get rid of mirrored decks and weekly/daily changes. My idea would be this:

There would be 2 different ways to play...non tourney TA style or tourney ATS style.

In the non tourney style you get 4 people and get a random pool, make builds, then can enter and face off against other random builds. If you win you continue onto another round to face another team. If you lose you can choose to reenter with the same pool (retool your builds if you want) or you can get a new pool and try again. The rewards for playing/winning would be better than TA though (to get all the PvEs playing). The only problem with this is they would have to limit repooling to prevent people from constantly repooling before they enter, but that could be easily done.

As for the tourney ATS style it is pretty self explanatory. Get 4 people, get a random pool of skills, and play the tourney with it. Simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

If it's really weekly skill pools then it's only going to be fun the first day, when no obv best team builds will be found yet. Day 2-7 will be pure copycat and infinite mirror matches = extreme boring. Even if the skill pool is deep enough to allow a few viable builds and bringing some counters to the build everyone's running, there will be not enough variation for a whole week of play. The best part of Sealed is the buildmaking, breaking the new format that reinvents itself with every new skill pool.

What I really hope for is ATS with every team getting different skill pool.

Exactly my thoughts. This would be the ideal situation. The positives of this FAR outweigh the negatives.

If they do mirrored decks and weekly changes, I know that the people I have lined up to play this with me will certainly not come back to GW for it.

Nerf Me Haha · Oct 15, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

How about making SD like the zaishen cimbat quests? every day you have a different deck, and you'll have the same deck the same day in the next week, decks will be refusheled with new builds once a month (same build for a particular day of the week for a month, then you get a new build).

Iotan · Oct 15, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

use random decks

GW's skills aren't balanced enough for this. The team that gets WoH will autowin against most of the trash out there. Think about getting Dev hammer vs. dwarven battle stance. This format would be who can get the luckiest draw. Sure you can beat any PvErs at a skillset disadvantage but that won't happen against slightly worse teams (which you should beat).

Maybe the solution is to use large deck sizes? It might give people the option to run multiple bars, or it might just make one bar the obvious choice.

DreamWind · Oct 16, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iotan

GW's skills aren't balanced enough for this. The team that gets WoH will autowin against most of the trash out there. Think about getting Dev hammer vs. dwarven battle stance. This format would be who can get the luckiest draw. Sure you can beat any PvErs at a skillset disadvantage but that won't happen against slightly worse teams (which you should beat).

I'm not buying this argument. Just because you get WoH doesn't mean autowin (what if you get a bunch of other garbage, what if other teams have WoH or really good offense, what if you don't build your bars right and other team does, what if other team is better, etc etc). Not to mention they should be able to balance the pools between rare great skills, uncommon good skills, and common average or bad skills etc.

I know that if it is mirror decks in any way (especially if its weekly change lol), the format will die. I have no doubt in my mind about that. It is way too boring...random is more fun. Yes there is more luck involved in random, but the benefits outweigh this greatly, particularly in a game like GW where the better team is going to win 90% of the time anyways.

BlackSephir · Oct 16, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

There's a reason GW doesn't have stuff like random to-hit chances, evades and accuracy.

Because random is shit.
I just thought it'd be fun to get 2 Dual attacks, 1 Off-hand and 0 Leads. Sounds like fun.

The Last Windseeker · Oct 16, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

There's a reason GW doesn't have stuff like random to-hit chances, evades and accuracy.

Because random is shit.
I just thought it'd be fun to get 2 Dual attacks, 1 Off-hand and 0 Leads. Sounds like fun.

There are already established rules for sealed deck play, and they talk about what to do if you don't have lead attacks etc. Just though I'd point that out.

Quote:

If a player chooses to play a Dagger Mastery skill then he or she can choose to use the Desperate Strike (Lead Attack) and/or the Fox Fangs (Off-hand Attack) skills. If that player removes all Dagger Mastery skills, then they must remove Desperate Strike and Fox Fangs from their character build.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sealed_Deck

Though, I guess we will have to wait and see how such rules will be implemented once the sealed deck arena comes out.

erk · Oct 22, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Looks like sealed deck is coming in this weeks Halloween update too. That will make for a full on weekend.

FoxBat · Oct 22, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Looks like sealed deck is coming in this weeks Halloween update too. That will make for a full on weekend.

Links!

I'm sure this is buried on some godforsaken wiki page...

erk · Oct 22, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Links!

I'm sure this is buried on some godforsaken wiki page...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=147

Edwards · Oct 22, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Hmm...I just noticed this thread a month late. Oh well.

I'm amazed at the amount of people that don't know what sealed deck is in this thread (almost none of you). Sealed deck is absolutely 100% NOT mirrored decks nor should it be. Anybody who has played MTG should know this...if it is mirrored decks it is going to be boring as shit and dead VERY fast (trust me I have tried it). Mark my words on that statement.

Apparently Anet doesn't know what sealed deck is either? Which is weird because didn't they just hire a guy from WoTC? Nevertheless...4v4 with player formed teams is good. Mirrored decks is bad. Weekly deck changes is awful.

Get rid of mirrored decks and weekly/daily changes. My idea would be this:

There would be 2 different ways to play...non tourney TA style or tourney ATS style.

In the non tourney style you get 4 people and get a random pool, make builds, then can enter and face off against other random builds. If you win you continue onto another round to face another team. If you lose you can choose to reenter with the same pool (retool your builds if you want) or you can get a new pool and try again. The rewards for playing/winning would be better than TA though (to get all the PvEs playing). The only problem with this is they would have to limit repooling to prevent people from constantly repooling before they enter, but that could be easily done.

As for the tourney ATS style it is pretty self explanatory. Get 4 people, get a random pool of skills, and play the tourney with it. Simple.

Exactly my thoughts. This would be the ideal situation. The positives of this FAR outweigh the negatives.

If they do mirrored decks and weekly changes, I know that the people I have lined up to play this with me will certainly not come back to GW for it.

I've barely played any GW in a couple months. I was thinking that I might come back and play with some friends when SD comes out, but if it's like what you've described, I won't bother.

What you're suggesting is that people form a team, repool until they get a good mix of skills, and then go in and trash everyone without as much luck/patience as they have.

The point of SD in my opinion is to emphasize player skill and creativity over effectiveness at running wiki/meta type builds. Luck in getting a good deck shouldn't be a factor. I want to play Guild Wars, not poker.