Curse

Another Child · Oct 26, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

NO. /kicked

Yes yes I know :P It amuses me that I'd kill myself with it :P 545 health and 76 armor is pretty funny in itself in AB. Although my monks are probably less amused....

Reverend Dr · Oct 27, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Considering there really is no spike in AB and rez times are but a few seconds, is there any reason to not run a superior rune?

Let me rephrase it, in a format where death has little meaning, is -75 health while giving a tangible benefit, really a terrible tradeoff?

moriz · Oct 27, 2009, 12:44 AM // 00:44

rez time in AB is 20 seconds. and really, the cost of dying is significant enough. remember, dead nukers don't cap shrines.

Bobby2 · Oct 27, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Let me rephrase it, in a format where death has little meaning...

3 points! You hear me!? 3 POINTS!

Lemme see, my nuker can have that sup rune if he caps 21 seconds faster than normal.

/rage

Another Child · Oct 27, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Considering there really is no spike in AB and rez times are but a few seconds, is there any reason to not run a superior rune?

Let me rephrase it, in a format where death has little meaning, is -75 health while giving a tangible benefit, really a terrible tradeoff?

Yeah it really is. But you know, it's AB. Obviously some people take it quite seriously. Me, I just like blowing stuff up, preferably clumps of slow witted stuff. That makes the extra 60 damage worth it :P

bungusmaximus · Oct 27, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Considering there really is no spike in AB and rez times are but a few seconds, is there any reason to not run a superior rune?

No spike? army eles say Hi. Anyways, everytime I think that I suddenly run into goofy stuff like triple searing flames on vent :P. Murphy's law is a [email protected]

nitrile · Oct 27, 2009, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I of late use SH->meteor->Rodgorts->liquid flame to spike. There's so many times when meteor hits I can already count the points, even and especially on monks. As for getting meteor while the target is in aoe, it's mostly just timing. Once they're casting on someone else and pinned to the ground it's time. For greater assurance, wait for a warrior to be in position, who will bulls them if they move. If it doesn't work on absolutely everyone, it works a percentage of the time that's still high enough it ought to be embarrassing.

Dual heat and mind blast won't work like this. I'd presume anyone standing in two heats is no threat in the first place, so one skill slot is less suited on my terms for killing people that matter. A chain of searing heat->meteor-rodgorts->mb is significantly less dangerous (will not kill a standing target) to a >600hp with shield, AL augmented by skills or not, and using more skills yourself to raise that is time the target has to react to the damage by much more energy efficient healing. SH is almost certainly less dps over 30s, but a lot more intensive when it matters (the first 7s, to which I'd note is only a little more than 2/3 downtime), and as a footnote it's also a clean nuke on every shrine except warrior (I guess; honestly never tried), with skill slots left for support (underappreciated: gaze of contempt). Without meteor, occupants of certain shrines will tend to wander before a second aoe does much directly to them which yes, I admit makes them smarter than a large percentage of ab players.

I've never gone into an AB with the sole intention of nuking npc's; who would? (rhetorical) However parties 'need' a nuker in the general case and as far as my groups go, if it's not me, it's not done, or done so badly it feels like we're a player short because the vast majority, even quite a few who should know better, don't have a clue how to be dangerous in a pvp context.

Lux Aeterna · Oct 27, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrile

I of late use SH->meteor->Rodgorts->liquid flame to spike. There's so many times when meteor hits I can already count the points, even and especially on monks. As for getting meteor while the target is in aoe, it's mostly just timing. Once they're casting on someone else and pinned to the ground it's time. For greater assurance, wait for a warrior to be in position, who will bulls them if they move. If it doesn't work on absolutely everyone, it works a percentage of the time that's still high enough it ought to be embarrassing.

Dual heat and mind blast won't work like this. I'd presume anyone standing in two heats is no threat in the first place, so one skill slot is less suited on my terms for killing people that matter. A chain of searing heat->meteor-rodgorts->mb is significantly less dangerous (will not kill a standing target) to a >600hp with shield, AL augmented by skills or not, and using more skills yourself to raise that is time the target has to react to the damage by much more energy efficient healing. SH is almost certainly less dps over 30s, but a lot more intensive when it matters (the first 7s, to which I'd note is only a little more than 2/3 downtime), and as a footnote it's also a clean nuke on every shrine except warrior (I guess; honestly never tried), with skill slots left for support (underappreciated: gaze of contempt). Without meteor, occupants of certain shrines will tend to wander before a second aoe does much directly to them which yes, I admit makes them smarter than a large percentage of ab players.

I've never gone into an AB with the sole intention of nuking npc's; who would? (rhetorical) However parties 'need' a nuker in the general case and as far as my groups go, if it's not me, it's not done, or done so badly it feels like we're a player short because the vast majority, even quite a few who should know better, don't have a clue how to be dangerous in a pvp context.

Would bull's strike said monks into Savannah heat for you.
Intelligent nukers can be quite game-making.

Bobby2 · Oct 27, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Would bull's strike said monks into Savannah heat for you.
Intelligent nukers can be quite game-making.

This is coming from the same guy that said Balanced Stance sucked in AB?

moriz · Oct 27, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

This is coming from the same guy that said Balanced Stance sucked in AB?

the thing is, the probability of meeting anyone that can KD well enough in AB is quite rare. the probability of meeting a team that can correctly quarterknock with AoE backup is even more rare. in the general case, it's better to go /A for the additional mobility.

Bobby2 · Oct 27, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

OK I won't play the Charge card.

Return out of AoE, Crippling a War on your way out, is pretty damn effective as well.

Darth The Xx · Oct 31, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Recently I've been running a pretty decent SF nuker bar, lots of fun.

SF, GG, Searing Heat, Rodgorts, GoLE, Aura, Attune, Fallback. Destroys shrines in seconds with a low recharge which is nice when taking down the walls in asslands. SF + Rodgorts is all you need when blowing ppl to crap as well

lukeydnb · Nov 14, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54

ele's are key. they cap fast, are very useful when following tags and are the perfect member to bring fall back. i will tell you why my ele is usefull. it can cap in 3 skills (6-8 seconds), it can also kill the backline, all of them

. the 3 skills can change the face of a battle. and they are....

SH - starts the spike
Meteor - holds them
Rodgort's Invocation - finishes them, if not a member of my team will or my other skills.
it does 300-500 dam

capping at this speed is very good for the whole team. then when another team is in trouble, the spike ( put to good use ) will insure the victory of that battle.

in a 4v4 fight i will need to use this spike 1's, so i make sure its put to good use. this is why fire eles are key. they are pure damage! and fall back

I Angra I · Nov 14, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Considering there really is no spike in AB and rez times are but a few seconds, is there any reason to not run a superior rune?

Let me rephrase it, in a format where death has little meaning, is -75 health while giving a tangible benefit, really a terrible tradeoff?

Killing the other team or taking deaths actually does give a pretty significant amount of points.

Though of course, running a superior still hardly matters anyway since the other 11 players are generally either good or bad and you win based on that.

Reverend Dr · Nov 14, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Aside from Goth spike, there are no 4 man spikes that are particularly lethal. If you are dying to 3 searing flames that are "spiking" you then your team is bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrile

SH->meteor->Rodgorts->liquid flame to spike.

9.25 seconds is not a spike. Unless all of the damage packets from a spike occur in about 1.25 seconds (enough time for two axe hits and 1-second cast followups), then it is a spike that your monk should be able to save, especially considering that 4-man teams cannot pump out 800-900 damage spikes that full 8 man teams can.

Really if the -75 health is going to force more deaths on your team, then it is time to get a new team. Your health should not be forced that low, if it is being forced that low, then either your team was going to wipe anyway, your team needs to learn to fall back, or your defense (whether personal or monk) is just terrible.

nitrile · Nov 15, 2009, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

9.25 seconds is not a spike. Unless all of the damage packets from a spike occur in about 1.25 seconds (enough time for two axe hits and 1-second cast followups), then it is a spike that your monk should be able to save, especially considering that 4-man teams cannot pump out 800-900 damage spikes that full 8 man teams can.

You're right, it's not; but it's in the same class as 'sinspikes', where it's a lot of damage dealt rapidly from one source, rather than pressing '1' every 3s for merely trivial pressure. Not counting the cast time of heat, when they don't reasonably know they've been targeted, it's not 9.25s either, and at least one spell is likely to trigger 40hct. The damage window is around 5-6s, being distinctly rear-loaded.

There's a strong psychological factor at play; basically assuming the target (==monk) is not fast enough to get out of SH right away (it happens, but waiting for them to be distracted or when necessary, burn their stance works a wonder) the meteor hits, and their first instinct after that is to get out of SH regardless, not heal. During which time rodgorts hits them, followed by liquid flame. That's in excess of 700 damage against AL60, including burning, which they probably didn't react usefully to, and not forgetting the fact my team ought've been doing something in the meantime.

Which of course they don't, always. But even a close call is time when a monk is paying zero attention to the rest of his team. Having mind blast as elite doesn't justify the loss of SH's +110 damage over searing during the initial ~6s.

Darth: I ran an SF nuker bar exactly like that for a couple of months. The quick 1-2 of rodgorts+SF for 127+106 and as you say, rapid recharges for target switching or followup pressure is (imo) what makes it fun, and it's a plausible excuse to take a self heal in the form of aura (*try meteor). It's not such a clean nuke on the monk shrines (in fact, plain ugly), though. That's sometimes bad, sometimes not important, but I don't use it often at the moment and that's one reason why.

And yeah I use super fire in AB, so sue me. Since I don't remember dying a lot without knowing I'd done something stupid, and usually outlive my team, I'm going to keep using it.

As far as the discussion generally goes, if we're now talking about eles choosing between mind blast, savannah heat or sf and not assassin's promise, I don't care what's being used because they all suggest builds that are a league ahead of year ago, when you couldn't get someone you didn't personally know who wasn't an e/a walking target. As far as I'm concerned they're all good for both pvp and pv shrine, after the due application of intelligence.

Bobby2 · Nov 15, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

rather than pressing '1' every 3s for merely trivial pressure

Someone doesn't get the point of Mind Blast?

icedwhitemocha · Nov 15, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

A mind blast that follows a PR war's targets will pump out insane pressure and goes a long way towards winning just about any skirmish. All the SH can do is hope for a fastcast on meteor, else they're stuck with glyphing rodgorts the next 30 seconds.

I'd run SH on fort maps I'm assaulting because of all the wall NPCs, but that's about it.

tl;dr: the ease with which SH caps shrines isn't worth the loss of Mind Blast pressure on skirmishes.

bungusmaximus · Nov 15, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

If you must nuke, bring RoJ, so you can also roast trollrangers. Or bring an extra melee on maps other then the forts. The ONLY thing a mblast ele can do is damage+speed, and they have to dedicate their entire bar to that. Hell I don't even run fire eles anymore on non-fort maps.

Water magic is retardedly strong in AB, maelstrom shuts down a caster shrine completely while the rest of the team kills. Or bring a mesmer or necro for armor ignoring damage to roll defy pain trolls.

SH is only good in combination with knockdown.