Curse

Nechrond · Nov 26, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Yeah, fiddling with statistics as in tuning every skill in the game down.

Actually, nerfing every skill would be a relative buff to auto-attack, so this would indeed weaken spiking compared to simple pressure. It would also be more in line with the original concept of GW, but that's a looooong time ago.

MaaKotka · Nov 26, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

And people who have atleast some understanding on this game have suggested toning skills down for a very long time. I'm still waiting that to happen.

kedde · Nov 26, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

If you'd played the game back when all the skills had a power similar to each other and a power much less than they have now, you'd know that this was when the highest amount of people had the most fun with the game, and that it was the point in time were gw was best balanced and most competitive.

ImpressiveSkilled · Nov 26, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Said it at teamquitter already: limit two copies of each skill on each team (exception for res sig). Contributes to healthier pvp, but could decrease the amount of players even greater than it already is.

moriz · Nov 26, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

that's a stupid idea. the objective here is to increase build diversity by creating an environment that does not strongly favour one to every other. limiting the amount of skills to two of each is basically doing the exact opposite; it is reducing build diversity. being limited to two bull's strikes effectively eliminates builds with more than two warriors, among other things.

ImpressiveSkilled · Nov 26, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Yes, it will reduce a bit of build diversity. But imo that's a small price to stop bspike and other lame gimmicks.

valence · Nov 27, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

while armor ignoring damage isnt the best mechanic i like, it is certainly not the issue of bloodspike. bloodspike is only viable if some energy engine supports it, usually those skills are broken.

cultists / spirits / a.gaze where all skills giving huge returns powering out these dumb builds. If 10nrg/15nrg skills can be spammed on recharge, what allows it to be spammed? probably that is broken(soul reaping)/overpowered(cultist)

'nerfing' gvg to 2 same skills max. will not reduce problem skills, just mask them in some very specific builds.

Toning down skills is the way to go, the power creep even when avoided would still be there inevitable. Lets say each expansion has 10 good skills, then after a lot of expansions all bars are filled with good skills, even though good skills already existed in prophecy (mind shock / eviscerate as simple examples) bars only become better due the campaign design of guild wars.. I'm aware that for example Mind Shock without glyph wouldn't be as good as it is today, but the high number spike damage already existed.

I never liked 100% pure spike builds as opposed to using spikes as a utility to cause pressure and asking for support damage. I've always seen Lightning Orb being a well designed spike skill, huge numbers easy to interrupt but can give high reward. Mind Shock was another awesome skill (back in prophecy) as ele's where reliant on elite emng, you bring the most powerfull spike skill but drop the ability to spam.

Rangers by design doing big damage was a retarded pve move. It was admitted during gw:en on the wiki somewhere they wanted to push ranger builds towards there as the new prep was supposed to make damage rangers viable. Rangers are about utility, making them doing big damage is not a part of it. Big ranged damage in general avoids protting and as most should be used now and then as support. Point Blank Shot is probably by design the spike skill i like most for rangers, denying their free movement slightly but even those numbers are quite big for a utility guy.

The current MoI is another op skill, water already does support spike damage and is mainly about utility (snares/blur), there is no need to give it more damage. Make the damage non armor ignoring or add it to a damage package already being dealt, the numbers can be reduced slightly as well. Remove the dump energy storage restriction and finally fix retarded fast casting on 2nd proph.

Primaries abusing secondaries has lead to a huge amount of gimmicks on their own, that otherwise would have never existed. After 5 years not fixed cause rangers wielding daggers/scythes, necro's outhealing while doing huge damage is being seen as 'creative' so in the end we just nerf Escape and change soul reaping over and over. Just a few examples, but this list is atrocious large of a broken mechanic leading to a huge amount of unneeded nerfs.

The list of stupid mechanics is quite long (armor, partyhealing, npc's, spirits, fast cast wep sets %%, etc) and i geuss i went quite offtopic:\

Krill · Nov 27, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

that's a stupid idea. the objective here is to increase build diversity by creating an environment that does not strongly favour one to every other. limiting the amount of skills to two of each is basically doing the exact opposite; it is reducing build diversity. being limited to two bull's strikes effectively eliminates builds with more than two warriors, among other things.

The idea of a hard limit of two copies per skill is basically a referendum on blood spike and stuff like kappa spike and stabbyway that have cropped up from time to time. Even builds like rawr spike, a/p spike and the current vPie spike that have been endlessly cried over don't use more than two copies of any single skill.

On the last point, so much would have to change for trip warrior to be viable. And even if it was you could run a cripslash with savage if you were absolutely determined to run such a build.

Mr Emu · Dec 03, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

do people even RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing understand the use of the word "referendum?"

anyway, the weapon could work. Rework spirit light weapon as something like:
5 (10?) | .25 | 5
Target ally has a spirit light weapon for [0-6-7] seconds. whenever this ally takes damage, they are enchanted with "spirit light," which protects them from damage for .25 seconds.

a quarter second is long enough since each packet of damage that gets through will refresh the invulnerability. thus a spike over 1-2 seconds would only get 4-8 packets of damage through, not enough for a kill. Pressure through compression would still be somewhat viable as fast activating attacks would take >.25 seconds to go through, thus not affected by the invulnerability. ofc, its a shitty hard counter idea to begin with, so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO that

Reverend Dr · Dec 03, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

anyway, the weapon could work. Rework spirit light weapon as something like:
5 (10?) | .25 | 5
Target ally has a spirit light weapon for [0-6-7] seconds. whenever this ally takes damage, they are enchanted with "spirit light," which protects them from damage for .25 seconds.

a quarter second is long enough since each packet of damage that gets through will refresh the invulnerability. thus a spike over 1-2 seconds would only get 4-8 packets of damage through, not enough for a kill. Pressure through compression would still be somewhat viable as fast activating attacks would take >.25 seconds to go through, thus not affected by the invulnerability. ofc, its a shitty hard counter idea to begin with, so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO that

you're an idiot

I Jonas I · Dec 03, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

you're an idiot

what this guy said

kedde · Dec 04, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

A big part of the reason the game has gotten to where it is, is because of retarded skills with retarded mechanics have been added.
Theorycrafting more of the same won't make it better.

Nechrond · Dec 04, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

you're an idiot

Beware, this guy is clearly an authority on idiots, because he's the genius who argued that 100% faster cast = instant cast.

House Silvermoon · Dec 04, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Beware, this guy is clearly an authority on idiots, because he's the genius who argued that 100% faster cast = instant cast.

at least rev doc is funny and people know who he is. cant say the same for you tho.

Reverend Dr · Dec 05, 2009, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Oh that's the guy that is butthurt because not only do people not care about his skill balance ideas even when he can't really be bothered to write up an easily understandable description.

The root problem with guild wars is that we can read the skills and understand what they new. Proposed change for spirit light weapon: 5e 1c 8r, for 3...9 seconds target is wielding a spirit light weapon. What does it do? You could even stealth change its effects with updates and not even have to note them. Clearly this is the wave of the future.

shem · Dec 05, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

ok here is the ting about balancing the skills.

When prophecies came out, there were some skills that were excellent that every one used.

Wa/mo's were popular and secondaries were combined with primaries and run secondary skills only because of people's creativity. Like Touch Rangers. Very effective when in a party of 8 of us all targeting the same foes.

So then the other games came out with other professions. These profession then had new skills and more powerful elites that the designers could not keep up with different builds.

So they changed things, troll ungent went from 15 seconds to 13 seconds and other things were changed to try and add a balance to a game that the designers made unbalanced by the nature of the beast.

The game was flawed to begin with and let me explain.

The designers major flaw happened when they allowed others to see your build by simply clicking on your or your name and then just watching you use the skills in your build. Even in GvG or PvP you can see the builds of the other players.

This instantly started the QQing about this or that skill being fantastic or not. This all could have been avoided if those of us that created the builds in the first place would have had the privacy to use these builds in peace without having others steal our ideas.

In pvp you should not know what skill the foe is attacking you with other than if you are hexed or conditioned as a result of those skills. Its nonsense.

Simply remove the effect from appearing on our screens to show what the other player is using and you will eliminate all of the qqing and instantly create better players because they will have to make a build as they see it, not as the community sees it as a whole.

If I said that I still run the touch build with a few others in Alliance battles I am sure that some people will post that those skills are junk. But if you were unable to see my skills while I am destroying you then you would not be able to change your skills during the next game to make my build obsolete and thus have to run a different build myself to counter your counter that you got off of the PVX cause that's all the player knows how to do.

This would have made things balanced simply cause I could continue to crush him, until the advent of the assassin. Now there are there new classes and new skills SF for one that were never thought of to be in Prophecies the game became instantly unbalanced never to recover...ever.

unless of course the creators wanted the sin to be over powered so that others would want a sin themselves and go and purchase the game thus creating revenue - the only way they really can cause it is not pay as you play.

So from a skills balanced area, SF will never truly be nurfed because no one would want to buy the game and use the skill if it was not over powered and those that are used to playing that style of game - farming or not - would loose the ability to do something that gives them joy. After all its the joy that people want.

SO kill SF and kill the sin - kill the desire to buy Faction/NF

Buff the sin so that everyone can farm the ectos to buy the armor that goes in the hall of mon is the BEST idea. Make these skills so that I can run Monk/sin or war/win or even m/sin. And then you would have more people going out to but the games.

Ectos will drop in price and people will qq but Anet will be raking in the cash

I Jonas I · Dec 05, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by shem

ok here is the ting about balancing the skills.

When prophecies came out, there were some skills that were excellent that every one used.

Wa/mo's were popular and secondaries were combined with primaries and run secondary skills only because of people's creativity. Like Touch Rangers. Very effective when in a party of 8 of us all targeting the same foes.

So then the other games came out with other professions. These profession then had new skills and more powerful elites that the designers could not keep up with different builds.

So they changed things, troll ungent went from 15 seconds to 13 seconds and other things were changed to try and add a balance to a game that the designers made unbalanced by the nature of the beast.

The game was flawed to begin with and let me explain.

The designers major flaw happened when they allowed others to see your build by simply clicking on your or your name and then just watching you use the skills in your build.

I stopped reading right there

lord of all tyria · Dec 05, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Prophecies only toucher must have been amazing without vamp bite.

Krill · Dec 05, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by shem

In pvp you should not know what skill the foe is attacking you with other than if you are hexed or conditioned as a result of those skills. Its nonsense.

Wow.

What's really wrong (in my idiot, who gives a shit opinion

)

1) Game mechanics. We had VoD-way builds before, now we have lord damage-way builds that are even longer, more boring and less predictable.

2) In regards to the OP, amazingly retarded builds like b-spike are allowed to persist because anet believes they are "entry level" builds that allow PvE players to easily transition to PvP. Shouldn't have to detail why this is both completely wrong and has been a major contributing factor to player base degeneration.

kedde · Dec 06, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

One thing about it is actually true.
If any sort of bspike mechanic was removed at this point, half the playerbase in gvg and tombs would be gone.

With that said, that's also the only correct thing izzy and others who never had the balls to change it properly has had correct about it.