Curse

Mr_Unlucky · Nov 06, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

-20% hex duration and -5% dmg done. I have avoided this so long ,but do you think its worth it? Is it used in GvG?

Thanks in advance.

turbo234 · Nov 06, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

note if you didn't notice that the 5% is damage dealt by you. so you deal 5% less damage, and also have -20 armor in exchange for a 1/5 less time being hexed. not worth it.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 06, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

-5% dmg = fail. dont use it.

Reverend Dr · Nov 06, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I still have my lieutenant's helm sitting in my inventory from 4 years ago when it actually was useful.

I'm not going to say that it is never useful, but like some of the other ill-used insignias, it will require very unusual circumstances for it to be more useful than other insignia and those circumstances can almost never be predicted.

Greedy Gus · Nov 06, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

I was looking at it the other day and threw it on for RA. Damage drop wasn't very noticeable and hexes are the main annoying thing in the format, and I had a number of 15+ win streaks so anecdotally it was fine.

The -20AL part sticks out as strange; -5% damage for -20% hex duration plus the opportunity cost of a different insignia already seem like a fair trade, tacking on a small random chance of getting popped for big damage is unnecessary.

Mr_Unlucky · Nov 06, 2009, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Ok, i wasnt specific enough in my post, yes i meant ,reduces dmg done by you 5%, didnt notice the -20 armor though.

But maybe when theres emphathys and vors and whatnot, you could reduce few sec from your "shutdown" time when you do nothing, it might be useful, stick it to boots and not many attacks hit there as i understand it. area dmg yes and whatever. i have read the dmg and armor parts effects.

But yeah, people dont really seem to like then.

insidious420 · Nov 06, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Considering hexes in general have always been [one of] the most OP'd mechanic[s] in the game, I'd say it's worth it. Personally I like it.

It should probably go on your boots, due to the -20 armor (if placed on head for example, if the enemy had height advantage you'd be giving them free -20 armor on yourself)

The -5% dmg is laughable, especially in RA, and easily overcome by using a Major weapon rune instead of a Minor.

Hugh Manatee · Nov 06, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

If you look at the duration/recharge on most of the "critical" hexes(faintheart, emp+vor, blur, IP, snares ect), they can either be reapplied fast enough for lieutenants to not matter, last so long that the only effective counter is actual hex removal or they shave maybe 1 to 3 seconds off the duration, bringing negligible benefits. Factor in the damage those hexes cold have done to you and the damage you could do with them gone sooner it might seem nice, but I don't think it's worth the other disadvantages. It's not like the clarity rune and -blind duration shield where if you get hit with b-flash it only last for like 2 seconds and you get to continue your assault, the hexes just last to long.

Since hexes have gotten a lot more powerful, maybe they ought to consider "un-nerfing" the lieu sigs but I just don't think they're worth it atm.

insidious420 · Nov 06, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Hugh Manatee,

While I agree with you about the recharges of 'critical' hexes, fact is you'll usually have at least one other melee on your team, meaning the hexer will most likely cast-on-recharge on the un-hexed melee'ers, rather than re-cast on you. I always run with Lieutenant's & Clarity. Anything that 'disrupts' an enemy's expectations or screws with their att. break points is always worth considering, in my book. That said, it's still borderline crappy & needs a buff of some kind.

jaximus · Nov 06, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

imo its completely not worth it for ra. there are so many eles out there that not having sents and instead having -20 armor really hurts, especially if you have frenzy. i do everything in my power to get as much armor as possible (shields swaps, sents insigs, defense wep mods).

the -duration time on hexes should be irrelevant if you play warrior the right way in an arena where you dont have characters to clean you. so say one of the bad anti melee people unloads a pile of hexes on you, if youre hammer, enraging + a spear or two and you have a kd ready to aid your team in getting a kill without you. dont just attack through it, thats dumb. if a character uses all their shit on you, get your attacks ready, but dont use them, by just chilling, you are taking him and you both out of the game, but, if you have a kd ready, you can int a sig/important skill and still win. if you are shock axe, laugh as he unloads all his crap on you. you have shock, and hes useless so long as you dont attack through it and kill yourself. either way, count the recharges and int the hex thats keeping you back. keep in mind during all of this theres eles spamming on you and while they are licking their lips as they trigger hits on that -20 armor you are dying and they are laughing.

Hugh Manatee · Nov 06, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidious420

Hugh Manatee,

While I agree with you about the recharges of 'critical' hexes, fact is you'll usually have at least one other melee on your team, meaning the hexer will most likely cast-on-recharge on the un-hexed melee'ers, rather than re-cast on you. I always run with Lieutenant's & Clarity. Anything that 'disrupts' an enemy's expectations or screws with their att. break points is always worth considering, in my book. That said, it's still borderline crappy & needs a buff of some kind.

Yeah, but that's the thing, looking at the duration/recharge, and factor in if they have a 40-40 set, they can cast on you, recharge, cast on the other guy, tab back to you and re-cast on you easily(i know because I used to do this in GvG and we'd have like 2-3 enemy warriors and rangers and stuff standing around while our mesmers Hum sigged/diverted their hex removers, then we had a derv just beat the crap out of them), or just split their hexes(IP on you, faint on the other guy). either way you're boned, and while a 2-3 second window allows for opportunity, you're still shut out, snared or eating damage for a lot longer then that.

Reverend Dr · Nov 06, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

The -20AL part sticks out as strange;

It was originally a PvE only armor. For some reason an armor crafter out in Kryta would make a helm that had the reduce hex modifier and the base armor for warriors in that area was 60.

It only ever saw use back when PvE characters could swap armor mid battle, that way they never ran any chance of suffering drawbacks when the other team had no hexes.

Greedy Gus · Nov 06, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Yeah I made a pve warrior for one like everyone else and loved it. But they basically totally remade it when it was reintroduced as an insignia, and could actually apply real game design to it at any point instead of leaving a strange holdover that doesn't make practical sense.

jaximus/hugh your points about hex duration are pretty weak. There is no way that a lower hex duration is ever a bad thing, whether you're fighting through them or waiting for hexes blink off. Even if all you're accomplishing is making the hexer cast more often, that's still a positive result that opens them up to more disruption and makes them spend energy differently. And the only opportunity cost for AL is on a single 12.5% piece.

FoxBat · Nov 06, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

It didn't have the 5% damage drawback in the day either. If it was just -20 armor it would easily be worth the trade.

*lemming* · Nov 07, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It didn't have the 5% damage drawback in the day either. If it was just -20 armor it would easily be worth the trade.

The original stats were

Armor: 60
Stats: Reduces Hex durations on you by 20%
+10 Armor Level vs Physical

The current insignia replicates the original functionality, with the -5% damage simulating the lost +1 weapon skill.

Ex Death · Nov 07, 2009, 01:16 AM // 01:16

If you want to play warrior in RA, you're really just best off with running holy veil and preveiling yourself with it. Im not sure what it is like at other times, but during euro hours, you will meet Empathy, Insidious Parasite or Faintheartedness every other game minimum. These hexes are ridiculously powerful as they can literally just maintain them on one of the opposing physicals and still be extremely useful without using any other skill on their bar. You can almost trade an entire physical character slot on the opposing team with just one of these hexes.

Some games you won't face hexes, but it's still worth taking if you want win streaks as you're bound to come up against some eventually. As a warrior you shouldn't be gimped from having a useless skillslot if you don't come up against hexes as there is almost always a flexible slot on every warrior bar.

If the other team has hexes but not anti-physical hexes, holy veil will still probably be more useful than pretty much any other skill if you're actually good at removing key hexes off other teammates (while still maintaining normal warrior duties).

jaximus · Nov 07, 2009, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

jaximus/hugh your points about hex duration are pretty weak. There is no way that a lower hex duration is ever a bad thing, whether you're fighting through them or waiting for hexes blink off. Even if all you're accomplishing is making the hexer cast more often, that's still a positive result that opens them up to more disruption and makes them spend energy differently. And the only opportunity cost for AL is on a single 12.5% piece.

take a look at these...
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14392

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15960

you will run up against hexes a lot, but also you run up against eles or autoattacks spamming crap on you nonstop until you die. hexes you can get around by not being dumb and/or interrupting them.

i manage plenty of long streaks with my armor setup and i dont find that i need to use that insignia to help me accomplish my goals.

Greedy Gus · Nov 08, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

The QQ opinions about why +AL is better than +HP for particular GvG metas are pretty irrelevant here. That's especially off-base considering that one could easily make a case that +HP is more useful in most RA metas. But the question isn't even one of armor: only one minor armor piece is affected (1/8th).

The question is also not whether you 'need' to use this insignia, but mainly if taking a fifth off the duration of all hexes on you is worth losing 1-3 damage per hit for axe/sword or 1-4 damage per hit for hammer. There isn't a correct answer, and how these factors are valued is likely different for a format without coordinated removals, with heavy expected hexing, and where damage is a cheap commodity. The anecdotal evidence so far is that you can get your win streaks with either choice, which generally points to personal preference. In any case, it's at least interesting to challenge conventional understanding of what is good/bad or just how optimal things are every once in awhile.

superraptors · Nov 09, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

dont bother taking it in ra, most annoying hex gotta be faint, even with -20% duration its still going to last a full duration long enough to be reapplied again, just go with full damage and hope your monk has dual hex removal vsing hex heavy teams

some guy · Dec 08, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

it pretty much all boils down to Armor vs Health