Curse

I Jonas I · Oct 23, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

You have essentially made a duplicate of TA except instead of using thousands of skills we can use only 160, which change every day. Okay. it's a nice concept. But do you really think that it will have any more long term popularity than TA or HB had? The thing that made TA unpopular was the set up time when compared to RA. But even that wasn't discouraging to the loyal TA players, whom you royally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed in the ass by deleting TA. well, news flash: the set up time is even longer in Codex Arena than Team Arenas

In the first few months of the "Codex Arena", which you guys have called it, I'm sure players will go through the trouble of creating their own build and forming up groups, etc. But pretty soon the hassle of figuring out which skills that can be used that day and meshing them together in a way that has some kind of synergy will get laborious. In a few months, the Codex arena will gain only a cult following among a few dozen groups of players and will be as dead as Team Arena's or hero battles ever was.

Iotan · Oct 23, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

The thing that made TA unpopular was the set up time when compared to RA.

Umm, did you ever play TA? The reason it was unpopular is that the meta was broken because skills were not balanced for a 4v4 arena. CA will be popular with guilds that don't have enough on for 8v8 arenas and for people who hate morons in RA.

Anet does need to list the complete skillsets somewhere instead of just for the characters in the arena, but this can be implemented pretty easily, and hopefully before the next full update.

erk · Oct 23, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

You have essentially made a duplicate of TA except instead of using thousands of skills we can use only 160, which change every day. Okay. it's a nice concept. But do you really think that it will have any more long term popularity than TA or HB had? The thing that made TA unpopular was the set up time when compared to RA. But even that wasn't discouraging to the loyal TA players, whom you royally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed in the ass by deleting TA. well, news flash: the set up time is even longer in Codex Arena than Team Arenas

In the first few months of the "Codex Arena", which you guys have called it, I'm sure players will go through the trouble of creating their own build and forming up groups, etc. But pretty soon the hassle of figuring out which skills that can be used that day and meshing them together in a way that has some kind of synergy will get laborious. In a few months, the Codex arena will gain only a cult following among a few dozen groups of players and will be as dead as Team Arena's or hero battles ever was.

If you want n00b quick setup teams, then RA or Costume Brawl are there.

Codex Arena is for people that want organized PvP, that can demonstrate they understand builds, only can scrape together 4 players or they would GvG or HA, and they are sick of the pathetic gimmick builds, red resigns, and RA flow though farming that TA had. Also it's a brand new untainted title track.

The Lost Explorer · Oct 23, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47

From what I've seen everyone still uses the same builds...I don't see any difference besides these are the only builds that work well so we have no choice.
Even though the build are a little different people still use the same general skills.
its basically the same as TA everyone using similar builds with the same profession and whoever messes up loses
Am i wrong and i'm i missing something that makes Codex so great?

moriz · Oct 23, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

i wouldn't mind a RA style sealed deck tbh. all they have to do is make sure only one of each profession gets on a team. such easy matchmaking is easy to make.

Chocobo1 · Oct 23, 2009, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i wouldn't mind a RA style sealed deck tbh. all they have to do is make sure only one of each profession gets on a team. such easy matchmaking is easy to make.

I'd like this too, but I am totally fine with how it is at the moment. It's not like it takes 30 minutes to set up a team. You only have a few skills to pick from, you aren't going to take years to figure it out.

DarkNecrid · Oct 23, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

I disagree, what made TA unpopular was that it had one of the most broken metas in the game with VERY little variety for the longest time, mostly because any balance problem is basically 10x worse when there's only 4 people in an organized unlimited setting.

Codex Arena does have slightly longer setup times, true, and the way to see skills could be enhanced (just add an NPC that lists the current Codex skills for the day for all 10 classes at once), but it is not doomed to failure. In fact, if anything, it will be the gametype that lasts the longest.

This is true for 2 reasons:
-The meta changes every day, regardless of balance decisions. Because of this, the meta each day is never given enough time to truly develop, and so there's always tons of variety. This also makes it a better spectator sport once they add ATs, because the ATs will actually be INTERESTING. To anyone except for newish people, the GvG ATs/mATs aren't really that interesting anymore. This also means ArenaNet has to do 0 to maintain it, so after they are done balancing, this gametype will still change, other's won't.
-It rewards skill on multiple levels. Other gametypes reward tactics and skill in the form of skill usage, some also reward luck (RA/AB, unless you sync) to some degree. Sealed rewards tactics, skill in the form of skill usage, and skill in the form of analyzing the meta at the blink of the eye and analyzing the skills given to you in a vacuum to deduce what might be the most flexible and usable team structure.

There are a lot of people who don't like this gametype already because of the 2nd thing. They can't copy top level player's builds anymore, and a lot of players have grown so used to doing that that it's become a crutch, they can't perform any critical thinking and so they think this gametype is worthless. The simple truth is that the people who have great skill usage and great team building skills and great metagame analyzation skills will excel in this game type above all, and those people are the ones who are truly skilled IMHO.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 23, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

There are a lot of people who don't like this gametype already because of the 2nd thing. They can't copy top level player's builds anymore, and a lot of players have grown so used to doing that that it's become a crutch, they can't perform any critical thinking and so they think this gametype is worthless. The simple truth is that the people who have great skill usage and great team building skills and great metagame analyzation skills will excel in this game type above all, and those people are the ones who are truly skilled IMHO.

Although what you say is true, it didn't take people long to figure out hexway would rock this arena. (at least today)

Venez · Oct 23, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

what makes it better is going to be variety. what dominates today is prob not gonna dominate tomorrow. ta had people running the same shit for a good year. i dont really mind the setup times for codex cause its sorta interesting making own builds tbh

I Angra I · Oct 23, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Krill · Oct 23, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

There could definitely be some improvement on the interface for seeing what skills are available. Players with high knowledge of the game can look at a list of skills and slap together some decent builds pretty quickly, but there's the main problem, there are not many players left who can do that. As such it will be very difficult for less experienced players to find a decent group and the player base will be quickly culled down to a similar size TA was. Already people are using glad rank to group, not a problem for those of us with high glad titles but it's a nonstarter for the vast majority of players.

So basically same shit different day, more hassle, new title. I agree that this probably won't last very long.

PS: Having Signet of Midnight in the rotation first day with no d-shot or d-chop was a very bad omen.

Socrates The Mauler · Oct 23, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Why not just give out glad points for this? No need for a whole new title. Now people making progress in RA cannot play both that and this. They have forced a choice, and nobody wants to start a whole new title track when so much progress has already been done on the RA title.

This is inferior to RA. Therefore, nobody will play it.

Gift3d · Oct 23, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

if you want to go in instantly go play the filth that is ra and quit whining.

yes, codex requires time to set up a team. cause of that it's HURR DURR DOOMED? lol nice joke.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 23, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates The Mauler

Why not just give out glad points for this? No need for a whole new title. Now people making progress in RA cannot play both that and this. They have forced a choice, and nobody wants to start a whole new title track when so much progress has already been done on the RA title.

This is inferior to RA. Therefore, nobody will play it.

It's obviously competing with RA in terms of attracting players. I pity people who will make their choice depending on which title track they have made the most progress in.

erk · Oct 23, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates The Mauler

Why not just give out glad points for this? No need for a whole new title. Now people making progress in RA cannot play both that and this. They have forced a choice, and nobody wants to start a whole new title track when so much progress has already been done on the RA title.

This is inferior to RA. Therefore, nobody will play it.

It's pretty obvious CA is intended to appeal to those that prefer some sort of organized PvP rather than disorganized PvP like RA or Costume Brawls.

It deserves it's own PvP title track, the Gladiator track credibility was tainted by RA sync teams, and TA's gimmick builds farming those from RA, and of course RR.

Same goes for HB with it's /roll and RR, that title went down the tubes too pretty quickly. The Alliance title was ruined by FFF. Zaishen title you can buy. Champ points and maybe hero are the only credible PvP titles left, but both require to organize 8v8, and you can't PUG GvG.

HawkofStorms · Oct 23, 2009, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Rather then whine about how its doomed to fail... why don't you tell that to the 10 districts playing it right now?

Look... if it succeeds... it succeeds. If it doesn't, it won't.
No amount of complaining will change that. There is no reason to argue about whether it will or will not work or is OMGZ the worst idea evar.

Captain Bulldozer · Oct 23, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I've already gotten the sense that CA is appealing to a lot of people who are primarily PvE players as well. That's something few of the other formats have ever done. CA has the advantage of a significant;y reduced skill set, making it easier for casual players to play (and hopefully still have fun). Its slightly more organized than RA, which is crap because of the randomness really...

So let's give it a wait and see. So far, its obviously popular, and it may even draw more PvE people into PvP. Its also a fantastic reason for Anet to sell more char slots for those that don't already have an open PvP char slot.

KZaske · Oct 23, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I for one, am looking forward to trying out CA this weekend.

I Jonas I · Oct 23, 2009, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I've already gotten the sense that CA is appealing to a lot of people who are primarily PvE players as well. That's something few of the other formats have ever done. CA has the advantage of a significant;y reduced skill set, making it easier for casual players to play (and hopefully still have fun). Its slightly more organized than RA, which is crap because of the randomness really...

So let's give it a wait and see. So far, its obviously popular, and it may even draw more PvE people into PvP. Its also a fantastic reason for Anet to sell more char slots for those that don't already have an open PvP char slot.

...or maybe there are 10 districts of people because it just came out today? that might have something to do with it.

in TA everyone ran either hexway or balanced, or towards the end rugsway or some shit with an EDA. Occasionally I saw Doctor Quakenshaw, J Z Contemplates, or Dhaina/Pyth running a weird but effective build of their own creation, but for the most part TA was predictable. And with that predictability comes the ability to spec against what you expect to face. There was a bit of rock, paper, scissors involved, but there should be in every PvP format.

Arkantos · Oct 23, 2009, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Rather then whine about how its doomed to fail... why don't you tell that to the 10 districts playing it right now?

Just because there are 10 districts of people playing it the day it was released means it's going to be successful.