Curse

Missing HB · Mar 10, 2010, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Yes , i have to agree once again about the fact that EVERY balanced team runs exactly the same ( thus calling any team not same lame..) but in my opinion , hexway/sway were made as an answer to that balanced build .

About changes , we could also think of updating Ward against foes since it's almost THE skill for snaring. Aswell , i thought that adding DP in Hall fights 1v1 could make it more fair for red team.

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 10, 2010, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Yes , i have to agree once again about the fact that EVERY balanced team runs exactly the same ( thus calling any team not same lame..) but in my opinion , hexway/sway were made as an answer to that balanced build .

About changes , we could also think of updating Ward against foes since it's almost THE skill for snaring. Aswell , i thought that adding DP in Hall fights 1v1 could make it more fair for red team.

You're already making a mistake in the first part. Of course a build which is balanced in most players eyes is the 2W 1R 1E 1Me 1Rt 2Mo build.

But if you're smart and you take some skill changes in account to counter other balanced teams, you're still doing a bit "build wars" while playing the balanced build. Of course, speccing against hexes while still playing balanced is possible as well.

If you're calling Ward Against Foes a problematic snare I think you're misunderstanding what problematic snares really are. In HA, only FC Water snares are really a problem, not Grasp and Ward which can both easily be rupted when not a fastcast (32%). Snares aren't harming you, but good players on the opposing team are.

My suggestion for King of the Hill in Halls:

Make all teams get an equal start, as in: All teams have to rush just like in Courtyard. This time every team gets equal, instead of one having the start. This makes a match (especially 1v1) not dependent on the first minute of the game.

TehOnly · Mar 10, 2010, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriaanz#Shiro

My suggestion for King of the Hill in Halls:

Make all teams get an equal start, as in: All teams have to rush just like in Courtyard. This time every team gets equal, instead of one having the start. This makes a match (especially 1v1) not dependent on the first minute of the game.

To make it rly equal the complete hoh map would have to be changed.
Blue's way is much shorter at start.

OblivionDanny · Mar 10, 2010, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Thanks for the ideas and comments guys/gals! Keep them coming.

Shaolinmonk · Mar 10, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

It is indeed time for some change!
/support

Killed u man · Mar 10, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehOnly

To make it rly equal the complete hoh map would have to be changed.
Blue's way is much shorter at start.

It's called : "Holding".

Blue team should get atleast some advantage. Be it the way old-school holding was (Start with cap) or be it with blue having a shorter path.

Also, last second cap > point system. With the last second cap, you never really lost untill the last second, ESPECIALLY with rezz orbs. This is why ganks were so uncomming, because you never really lost the match. (Unless you were dumb and didn't know how to use your orb) Touhg I don't recall if orbs existes in HoH, but I reckon they did.

Also, with the last second cap system, blue starting out with holding is necessarily a good thing, because they're not accumulating any more points, meaning they'll just get unnecesary DP if they die.

Imo:

Old School holding:

*6 Minute Battle. (So about a HoH win every 10 minutes)
*Last Second Cap
*Moral Boost for the Blue team as the gates open
*Moral Boost for the holding team after every minute of holding.
*Ghostly rezzes where the bridge is now every minute if he's dead.
*Players rezz at 4 minutes and 2 minutes.
*A rezz orb spawns at the start, at 4 minues and at 2 minutes in your base.
*Base protection: Anyone who goes beyond the stairs (To block ghostly) gets an insta-kill effect similar to AB.
*If your rezz orb gets dropped due to death, or gets returned by a player, no more rezz orbs spawn.

Maybe some more things I can think off, but that seems a pretty decent holding set-up.

FoxBat · Mar 10, 2010, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Also, with the last second cap system, blue starting out with holding is necessarily a good thing, because they're not accumulating any more points, meaning they'll just get unnecesary DP if they die.

That's why near the end of holding, people just sat across the altar looking at each other, rushing to cap only in the last minute. A compelling 5 minutes or so of doing nothing...

They might fix both problems by awarding more points for holding later in the match, though it would take some balancing to find the right amount. Rescale it so holding for the first 30 seconds gives 10 points, the next 30 seconds gives 11 or 12, something like that.

Really though no HoH fixes are really going to bring HA back. The heart of HA was always the SWAY and IWAY flailing morons that rarely make it past underworld, not the hall holding elite, which are by definition a very small portion of HAers. (Or at least were before excessive skipping.)

Lithril Ashwalker · Mar 10, 2010, 09:04 PM // 21:04

i personally like the Suggestion 5. if its not at all possible to add a suggestion of my own to the post, how about an area to where certain ranks are allowed in and other ranks cant join in. like r0-r3/r4-r7/r8-r11/r12-r15 only certain ranks can enter certain districts, this will allow new pvp players to get situated and fight their own rank range getting them experienced in what HA is about...kinda like the old Ascalon Arena where you can only join if your lvl 1-lvl 10. but with ranks instead. a district to all...eliminate discrimination!

Killed u man · Mar 10, 2010, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

That's why near the end of holding, people just sat across the altar looking at each other, rushing to cap only in the last minute. A compelling 5 minutes or so of doing nothing...

They might fix both problems by awarding more points for holding later in the match, though it would take some balancing to find the right amount. Rescale it so holding for the first 30 seconds gives 10 points, the next 30 seconds gives 11 or 12, something like that.

Really though no HoH fixes are really going to bring HA back. The heart of HA was always the SWAY and IWAY flailing morons that rarely make it past underworld, not the hall holding elite, which are by definition a very small portion of HAers. (Or at least were before excessive skipping.)

That was also when HoH was 6 man, which naturally generates quicker battles (Compare TA to HA to GvG to AB), and faster wipes.

When it was 6v6, you only had 2 Monk and 1 midliner as defence against 8 offensive characters. With 8v8, you have 3 full defence characters, aswell as snares and more support in your midliner against 10 offensive characters.

Back then, it was really unlikely teams could hold for 2+ minutes, especially with pretty much no rezz timer (Untill 2 minutes). During 8v8, this was an uncommon strategy, as you COULD hold for longer with a 8 man build set-up.

Also spike builds were a large culprit for these tactics. OP skills such as SoMW, paragons (back then), eurospike (spiritual pain) aswell as redicilous pressure builds (jaggedway) allowed for teams to wipe the holding team (or their ghostly) in less then 30 seconds.

So the waiting around for 2 minutes was only partially the design of the map (No more rezz after 2 minutes), and mainly the OP skills NF brought at that time.

With the current Relic Run, you can clearly see it's the map design itself that is flawed.

superraptors · Mar 11, 2010, 09:49 AM // 09:49

make it so hoh gives dp except on cap, and resses every 2 mins. The holding team just has too much of an advantage and that kind of set up promotes ganking.

Generally if a team nowadays holds 6 points straight they will lose, if the other team caps and still wins . The team with no points either resigns or ganks.

axe · Mar 11, 2010, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

make it so hoh gives dp except on cap, and resses every 2 mins. The holding team just has too much of an advantage and that kind of set up promotes ganking.

Generally if a team nowadays holds 6 points straight they will lose, if the other team caps and still wins . The team with no points either resigns or ganks.

I was thinking the same thing, I also hate rezzing on the central altar, esp. when you work so hard at getting kills, the team holding the altar usually will try to suicide when possible so they respawn, I see a lot of infuse monks spam infuse in AoE so they can get the timed rez, that should not be a tactic for winning.

On Koth you should get points for capping and points for holding. I would also like to suggest that you lose a point if a party member dies (excluding the ghost). 10 points for capping would let the team that has the altar have a "bank" of points for when they start getting killed, it might be beneficial in this system to try to wipe the team that capped rather than focus on kicking the ghost right away. I dont know, just ideas....

Missing HB · Mar 12, 2010, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Yes , but suiciding at rez time is the solution to win holding 1v1v1 , the only problem is when map is 1v1 only : 4min isnt enough at all to kill backline enough times + not close to rez timer .In addition , some team just dont care of letting ghost or backline die since the two rupters ( r/el and mesmer most of time ) just have to stand on song + ghost .
The only way to fix it , as i said before , is to add DP if hall is 1v1.