Mar 26, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44
|
#41
|
|
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: GWFC
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN
D slash went extinct ever since FGJ got hit, and probably will stay as such.
|
Except it was ever as popular before it got buffed, aka in Factions?
|
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09
|
#42
|
|
Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFraser
sword has the fastest attack speed
|
Instant loss of credibility.
Quote:
Barberous Slice + Gash + Dragon Slash.
The above skill chain might not look very impressive but considering your are going to be putting it out every 1-2 seconds from start to finish of the battle, it starts to look very appealing.
|
It takes 10 swings (12 seconds) on an unprotted immobile target to build the first combo. It then takes another 10 swings (12 seconds) to unleash the combo 1.66 times and arrive back at the same place (fully built). Swings are in the following manner - Barbarous, Gash, Dragon, Barbarous, Gash, Auto, Auto, Auto, Auto, Auto. Extremely unimpressive.
I assume you meant to mention that you are also using FGJ, in which case you can Dragon Slash every single swing whenever FGJ is up. Which is cool except that you can only do that for 20/45 seconds and it only works if you never miss an attack (every team has at least Guardian x2, possibly BSurge or Blurred - good luck with that)
Quote:
|
You also seem to think all your "better" skills are immune to missing.
|
For a generic warrior, there are no extra consequences beyond the loss of the would-be damage attached to missing an attack. If they miss an Eviscerate, they lose 38 damage and a deep wound, period. On the other hand, if you miss a Dragon Slash, your entire build becomes ineffective for several seconds, because you are relying on it to make up for the deficient other attack skills and lack of IAS.
Quote:
|
Swords ARE the DPS pressure build.
|
Certainly not your Sword build. Pressure in modern Guild Wars is executed through applying large quantity of threats, usually none of which have results which are individually critical to either offensive or defensive success. Pressure is achieved via the cumulative effects of a sufficient number of threats with offensively favorable outcomes.
Your build spits out suboptimal attack skills at an unimpressive rate and outputs negligible damage whenever not unloading owing to a lack of IAS. Good warrior builds use constant IAS/IMS stance switching to constantly pump good damage even when not using attack skills, and generally use the rest of their skill slots on utilities such as KDs (Bulls, Shock), Inturrupts (DChop, Savage), Stance Removal (Whirling Axe), Deep Wounds, or Damage pumps, to generate a large number of threats.
Your Sword build could be improved to make a relatively decent Dragon Sword bar, in line with the above concepts. I believe the traditional Dragon bar was:
Sever, Gash, Sun/Moon, Dragon, Frenzy, Rush, Prot Strike, Res Sig.
That thing pumped a lot of damage. Notice the Frenzy for the huge DPS boost, and how that Sun/Moon + Prot Strike not only add more damage but add redundancy to the Dragon adrenaline engine, decreasing the criticality of connecting with every Dragon.
Another Dragon Bar with more utility but less absolute damage (but of course not necessarily less damage in practice) could be:
Sever, Gash, Dragon, Bulls, Frenzy, Rush, Savage, Res Sig.
This bar is ok, but runs into trouble when one considers that Sun/Moon does almost as good a job as Dragon, and is cheaper, unblockable, and isn't elite. Its not like Sever or Gash are so expensive that Dragon brings them to life noticeably more than Sun/Moon, anyways. This is what leads to the current ConjureCripSlash bar:
Sever, Gash, Sun/Moon, Savage, Frenzy, Rush, Conjure, Res Sig
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2010, 10:34 PM // 22:34
|
#43
|
|
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2007
Guild: Kaons Banned Fecal Super Team [Ban]
Profession: Mo/A
|
The original one had FGJ! but since that's gone there really isn't any point in running the skill.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10
|
#44
|
|
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Striking Distance
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kedde
The original one had FGJ! but since that's gone there really isn't any point in running the skill.
|
Except people had been playing dragon slash since it came out in factions. The broken FGJ synergy was created in one of the dartboard buff updates around EotN, and that bar was a gimmick. A possible point of view is that dslash is one of the bars that hasn't kept up with power creep, but anyone who thinks it sucks just doesn't know what they're talking about.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20070809
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 03:06 AM // 03:06
|
#45
|
|
Silence and Motion
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buffalo NY
Guild: New Horizon [NH]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy Gus
Except people had been playing dragon slash since it came out in factions. The broken FGJ synergy was created in one of the dartboard buff updates around EotN, and that bar was a gimmick. A possible point of view is that dslash is one of the bars that hasn't kept up with power creep, but anyone who thinks it sucks just doesn't know what they're talking about.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20070809 |
Hehe, I forgot FGJ wasn't always like that!
As for DSlash being a bad bar, it's certainly viable, it's just nowhere near as good as the other options available to a Warrior. While you can't really compare to Cripslash, even a Hundred Blades build pressures more. Also, the Barbs synergy there is too much.
__________________
Currently active in GW1 as of February 2015!
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 03:59 AM // 03:59
|
#46
|
|
Pre-Searing Cadet
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Good warrior builds use constant IAS/IMS stance switching to constantly pump good damage even when not using attack skills
|
Instant loss of credibility. Warrior builds using IAS/Stance switching is an absolute given, there is no "good" about it. If I have to point out to you it's on the bar you probably shouldn't be posting here. Next time I post I'll be sure to mention my res signet, for your benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Pressure in modern Guild Wars is executed through applying large quantity of threats, usually none of which have results which are individually critical to either offensive or defensive success. Pressure is achieved via the cumulative effects of a sufficient number of threats with offensively favorable outcomes.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Good warrior builds use constant IAS/IMS stance switching to constantly pump good damage even when not using attack skills, and generally use the rest of their skill slots on utilities such as KDs (Bulls, Shock), Inturrupts (DChop, Savage), Stance Removal (Whirling Axe), Deep Wounds
|
So I take it you run a bar with knockdown, interrupt, stance removal and deep wound, none of which are critical to offensive success? With IAS/IMS and Res that must be just about the worst bar in history. What's your elite? Healing Hands?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
or Damage pumps, to generate a large number of threats.
|
Now you are getting the point. Sword (+IAS for your benefit) + Dragonslash + whatever adrenaline building/exploiting skills you can find + target switching, is an absolute Damage Pump/Pressure Build.
I wouldn't expect you to know this, but Frenzy lasts precisely the same amount of time it takes a warrior to build 5 energy. Stick Barberous slice one slot to the left of Frenzy and watch your energy regen out of the corner of your eye and it's a nothing task to time the chain. Infact it turns the ruthless Frenzy/Energy timer into a slick skill chain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Sever, Gash, Sun/Moon, Savage, Frenzy, Rush, Conjure, Res Sig
|
Seriously, Sever and Sun/Moon? Could you waste more slots? If you learned how to arrange a bar you might learn to use Barberous slice. That pales into insignificance when you take an 8 strike adren skill to build 2 strikes only. That is an effective 6 for 2 and nothing else.
I am sure the enemy team quakes at the thought of your Sever/Gash/Savage Slash combo. Are you farming Charr in Pre-Searing?
Savage slash is a gimp skill, you get three shots at it before you have to stop using Frenzy or run around with a focus...
There is a reason Dragonslash is an Elite. +42 damage +5 Adrenaline 10 Adrenaline cost. That's constant double adrenaline generation untill you miss with that one skill. It's not a spike, it's not a utility, it's constant double adrenaline plus 5 strike +42 damage.
I'm seeing a lot of words from you but I am not seeing much clue. You seem to be completely unaware of the basics of a warrior let alone the stuff that makes you passable at the class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariena Najea
Hehe, I forgot FGJ wasn't always like that!
As for DSlash being a bad bar, it's certainly viable, it's just nowhere near as good as the other options available to a Warrior. While you can't really compare to Cripslash, even a Hundred Blades build pressures more. Also, the Barbs synergy there is too much.
|
Good luck running around with your 3 use Hundred Blades. I definately need to fit that to my bar next time I'm in a tough fight. Hundred Blades + Savage Slash + Frenzy, it's the build of your dreams.
You can spot when the casters enter a Warrior thread from a mile away.
Last edited by SFraser; Mar 27, 2010 at 05:30 AM // 05:30..
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 05:22 AM // 05:22
|
#47
|
|
Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFraser
Instant loss of credibility. Warrior builds using IAS/Stance switching is an absolute given, there is no "good" about it. If I have to point out to you it's on the bar you probably shouldn't be posting here. Next time I post I'll be sure to mention my res signet, for your benefit.
|
You say something that is flat out incorrect ("sword has the fastest attack speed") - this is such a noobish mistake that it can only lead to the conclusion that you just are either very new or very bad. I say something that is in fact correct, and issue you a dissertation much longer than you deserved on whats what in Guild Wars. Loss of credibility indeed.
Quote:
|
So I take it you run a bar with knockdown, interrupt, stance removal and deep wound? With IAS/IMS and Res that must be just about the worst bar in history. What's your elite? Healing Hands?
|
Which of the things that I listed does Healing Hands fulfill?
The point is that one doesn't have to take all of those things, but some combination of them. But in case you were wondering, Dismember, Whirling Axe, DChop, Bulls, Frenzy, Rush, Shock, ResSig does fit your bill, and is used frequently throughout the ladder.
Quote:
|
Now you are getting the point. Sword (+IAS for your benefit) + Dragonslash + whatever adrenaline building/exploiting skills you can find + target switching, is an absolute Damage Pump/Pressure Build.
|
Sword as presently used in the ladder is a spike pumping bar, generating a steady flow of lethal threats through its fast-reloading CripSlash/Gash/SunMoon/Savage under Conjure spike combo which also features snare, unblockability, and interrupt at all the times you'd want each during the spike.
It has in the past been used as a damage pump, but this has been largely eshewed in modern times because of the dominance of RC and the inability to fit important utility such as knockdowns or interrupts on a full-pump Dragon Bar.
Attack skills comprise a relatively unimportant percentage of actual warrior damage. This is why DPS pumping is left to Frenzy/Rush, and attack skills are used primarily to generate threats with KDs, Interrupts, Deep Wounds, etc. Simple +damage is relatively tame.
Quote:
|
I wouldn't expect you to know this, but Frenzy lasts precisely the same amount of time it takes a warrior to build 5 energy. Stick Barberous slice one slot to the left of Frenzy and watch your energy regen out of the corner of your eye and it's a nothing task to time the chain. Infact it turns the ruthless Frenzy/Energy timer into a slick skill chain...
|
Honestly I'm surprised you didn't just tell me that Frenzy is bad because you take double damage.
But anyways, let me get this straight, you expect to use Barbarous and Frenzy on the same bar, but only use Barbarous immediately after Frenzy has expired? Do you have any idea how comical you sound?
Quote:
|
Savage slash is a gimp skill, you get three shots at it before you have to stop using Frenzy or run around with a focus...
|
lol?
Quote:
|
There is a reason Dragonslash is an Elite. +42 damage +5 Adrenaline 10 Adrenaline cost. That's constant double adrenaline generation untill you miss with that one skill. It's not a spike, it's not a utility, it's double adrenaline +42 damage.
|
If you're looking for a damage pump then the Sever, Gash, SunMoon, Dragon, Frenzy, Rush, ProtStrike, Res Sig build is what you're looking for. But theres a reason why people don't run that now. If you're looking for something really beast that people actually do use, you could go: Dismember, Executioners, Thrill of Victory, Fear Me!, Frenzy, Rush, Coward!, ResSig.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 08:03 AM // 08:03
|
#48
|
|
Silence and Motion
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buffalo NY
Guild: New Horizon [NH]
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFraser
Instant loss of credibility. Warrior builds using IAS/Stance switching is an absolute given, there is no "good" about it. If I have to point out to you it's on the bar you probably shouldn't be posting here. Next time I post I'll be sure to mention my res signet, for your benefit.
|
You should remember that a significant number of the members (and guests) here that view Gladiator's are not skilled players, and are looking for advice. Telling them generically that every bar needs an IAS/IMS/res and not mentioning those on skillbars sends mixed signals, and is one of the reasons why it is difficult to get into PvP for most PvE players. Follow through.
Quote:
|
So I take it you run a bar with knockdown, interrupt, stance removal and deep wound, none of which are critical to offensive success? With IAS/IMS and Res that must be just about the worst bar in history. What's your elite? Healing Hands?
|
His point is that while powerful, no single one of these will achieve success against a competent team. Also, there's no need to be sarcastic about Healing Hands, it lessens the credibility of your arguments.
Quote:
Now you are getting the point. Sword (+IAS for your benefit) + Dragonslash + whatever adrenaline building/exploiting skills you can find + target switching, is an absolute Damage Pump/Pressure Build.
I wouldn't expect you to know this, but Frenzy lasts precisely the same amount of time it takes a warrior to build 5 energy. Stick Barberous slice one slot to the left of Frenzy and watch your energy regen out of the corner of your eye and it's a nothing task to time the chain. Infact it turns the ruthless Frenzy/Energy timer into a slick skill chain...
|
Read the previous few posts explaining why Dragon Slash =/= an absolute effective pressure build. As for Frenzy, you are right about its energy cost, however, you are forgetting something in planning your chain. What happens when you get targeted in Frenzy and need to cancel with Rush? That effectively kills Barbarous Slice's bonus damage for a minimum of 8 additional seconds (+ recharge time on Frenzy) meaning you still lose out to Sever Artery. You can probably get away with this in RA/AB where most players crusade against the casters, but not when the other team is reasonably coordinated, or has a physical that knows what they're doing.
Quote:
Seriously, Sever and Sun/Moon? Could you waste more slots? If you learned how to arrange a bar you might learn to use Barberous slice. That pales into insignificance when you take an 8 strike adren skill to build 2 strikes only. That is an effective 6 for 2 and nothing else.
I am sure the enemy team quakes at the thought of your Sever/Gash/Savage Slash combo. Are you farming Charr in Pre-Searing?
Savage slash is a gimp skill, you get three shots at it before you have to stop using Frenzy or run around with a focus...
There is a reason Dragonslash is an Elite. +42 damage +5 Adrenaline 10 Adrenaline cost. That's constant double adrenaline generation untill you miss with that one skill. It's not a spike, it's not a utility, it's constant double adrenaline plus 5 strike +42 damage.
I'm seeing a lot of words from you but I am not seeing much clue. You seem to be completely unaware of the basics of a warrior let alone the stuff that makes you passable at the class.
|
Sun and Moon works on most Warrior bars since you get the AP from Strength, and it is often run with Conjure. As for Savage Slash, it isn't generally ideal, but it and other energy skills (like Protector's Strike) are viable because good Warriors will use their Zealous set intelligently.
Please re-read the previous few posts on why Dragon Slash is anything but constant extra adrenaline.
Quote:
Good luck running around with your 3 use Hundred Blades. I definately need to fit that to my bar next time I'm in a tough fight. Hundred Blades + Savage Slash + Frenzy, it's the build of your dreams.
You can spot when the casters enter a Warrior thread from a mile away.
|
Again, use a Zealous weapon. Savage Slash + HB is pretty awful, and mixing build suggestions is ineffective at proving a point. Hundred Blades on its own has the advantage of going through blocks and such, so you can still occasionally push kills on kd'd low-HP targets that have entered a block stance. On a side note, nearly all of my PvP experience is on my Warrior, so I have a fair handle on what really works and what doesn't.
__________________
Currently active in GW1 as of February 2015!
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 27, 2010, 08:49 AM // 08:49
|
#49
|
|
The Hotshot
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Honolulu
Guild: International District [id多]
|
Stop feeding the troll.
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:03 AM // 05:03.
|
jQuery(document).ready(checkAds()); function checkAds(){if (document.getElementById('adsense')!=undefined){document.write("_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Adblock', 'Unblocked', 'false',,true]);");}else{document.write("