Curse

Missmelady · Mar 01, 2010, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I'm not complaining - I've lived without playing in HA for 4-1/2+ years, not my cup of tea. But I do talk to people who would like to get into HA and their #1 reason for not bothering is because of the rank discrimination that goes on there. Whether it's really a problem or not, that's the perception of the rest of the GW community and it's the main reason why there aren't many new faces there. I know better than to assume that all HA players are elitists, and I also know better than to believe there aren't any out there.

Of course there are just like the Elitists in pve no one is denying the fact that there are.

mattybadger · Mar 01, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

NO HA isnt dying. Its already dead and were just poking its lifeless corpse with a stick at this point.

Agreed. I think it was dying by the time winning Halls no longer contributed to which world have favour

AlsPals · Mar 01, 2010, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Here we go with the counter-points. For the purpose of PVE, if you were asking for Max ursan or LB, its cause it was feasible within short amounts of time and provided tangible BENEFITS! Which is why most people dont like those titles to exist. Using that as an argument as to why we shouldnt talk about PvP titles is just fruitless. The discrimination is a game killer. Its not so much about the one player, as the trickle down. I never had much of a problem getting into a group, and im not even ranked. When the game first started, I was in a guild, and we won matches hand over fist. That was BEFORE rank. I got interested in PvE,took off PvP for a good while, come back, ranks. The problem here is, you have to sell yourself like its a job for the purpose of pugs(yes, I know they fail most times.) when most often your going to run the most talentless, gimmicky "Lets get more fame" builds. Yes, it is possible to get in with better ranked people, but not everyone extends those chances. The only real solution to the problem is to start a guild and get like-minded players who are eager to get better. Then you have to hope they dont crumble and quit because of the skill gap, hope you dont have people who rage after everyloss, etc etc etc. And as for giving the R4 a chance, that was one example. If that happened more often, we wouldnt have this conversation. If I have to run a gimmick 4k times JUST to be looked at for a group who will be running something more skill intensive, why bother in the first place? The 13 year old who spent the year getting R10 and is half competent will be picked over someone who may be better but just isnt on all the time. Im positive there are good players out there or fast learners who dont make it very far because when they throw up gang signs a bison doesnt appear over their chest. Again, im not saying it CANNOT be done, but the hostile numbers game typically means the difference between 2 good players is who grinded out points more. Its not always the case, but in addition to the lately stale nature of HA, Titles have discouraged potentials. HA players did it to themselves.

cognophile · Mar 01, 2010, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

ps. join a r3+ guild instead of playing with PUGs...

nty. not going to ditch my friends just to get more rank.

Warvic · Mar 01, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cognophile

nty. not going to ditch my friends just to get more rank.

They didn't say you had to ditch people from your friendslist..

Most of my friends play pve. I'm in a pvp guild.. Does it matter? No.

Missmelady · Mar 01, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by cognophile

nty. not going to ditch my friends just to get more rank.

Therefore u have no right to qq about elitist in pvp if your not even willing to go the extra mile to make yourself better.

Earth · Mar 01, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

The issue about getting ranks and elitism has been discussed a million times before, and it's not worth it to have it again because they usually end in flamefests. I would suggest that you end it and get back to the original topic: ideas to revive HA, such as reverting it back to 6v6 or allowing heroes.

kedde · Mar 01, 2010, 06:58 PM // 18:58

6v6 tombs is utterly retarded.
It completely confines 75% of your profession choices if you're to spec for every format, and be somewhat prepared for every weird gimmick you might face which just isn't fun at all.

AlsPals · Mar 01, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

6v6 was:Either defense or offense. It was a failure of a format. At this point, there is nothing in particular that can fix HA without significant resources. Its just something we have to hope GW2 does better.

OblivionDanny · Mar 01, 2010, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

there is nothing in particular that can fix HA without significant resources.

I think people are misunderstanding what this thread was made for.

This thread was made to get across the fact of the lack of "TEAMS" and the "LONG WAITING TIMES" that are currently taking place in HA.

now the point of highlighting this is the following.

Reintroducing 6v6 - YES It would possibly force/create more teams in HA, YES it may confine 75% of the professions and YES it "may" have been a failure format HOWEVER there was NEVER a problem with the lack of people, yes the game may have had more people playing back then but this is still a possible "cure" for the problem REGARDLESS of what it may cause, its still a solution to fix the problem being addressed here.

Adding Heroes - Sure "some" people may hate heroes in HA for the pure fact of their interupting abilities or what not. However THIS STILL ADDRESSES THE PROBLEM MENTIONED HERE and therefore is a solution to the problem regardless of what it may or may not cause otherwise.

Permanent Double Fame - This may tempt more people to play HA as ranks would be easier to gain, unfortunatly it would also be easier to achieve higher ranks too. If HA is as dead as everyone says it is and that people gave up caring about HA would this actually matter then or not?... (Constructive feedback please)

Swapping/Adding/Removing HA Maps - Sure this would be a nice change to HA but would it make people want to play HA more again?

Swapping/Adding/Removing HA format(relic runs/koth etc...) - Again it could be a nice change to see kill count back maybe? or the removal or addition of some different game plays? Any ideas for this? Would this actually make people want to play HA again though?

Any other ideas about the problem concerned in the first post? Share your ideas please.

colosusjokers · Mar 01, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

The rank system was a good idea in my opinion because it is always nice to have something to show for what you have done. The only problem is the number of people who put too much emphasis on it.

There have been a number of times that I have attempted to get into groups and even messaged people who were requesting higher ranks to give me a chance. 9 times out of 10 I was either ignored or laughed at. The one out of ten ratio is for the times I was politely turned down which socially wise makes them smarter individuals than the people who just laugh at you and when I got into a non-rank pug. I'm hardly upset over it as between this, DDO, and x-box live I have plenty to do other than HA and could always set a guild get together for it if I want to(just will have to help a few guildmates get the hang of what to do).

When it comes down to it this scenario with the crowd for HA gradually reducing is the fault of the people who are into it. For the most part nobody helps anyone wanting to come into the HA scene and just ignore or mock the individuals(which naturally will cause a lot of them to return that sentiment). This results in a reduced amount of new blood and as the old blood leaves...well case in point. Back in the day I could go in and get groups easily without rank or being in an HA guild (made a few good friends when doing that). However, times have changed.

There are still plenty of people there that make it possible to do HA and it won't ever really die out as it is a good form of PvP in itself. It is however more stagnant than it used to be and will become more so as this scenario plays out.

If you are wanting to get into it for the PvP then you could always start a group with some non-rank friends(if you don't want to leave your guild just have everyone in the group you make on your friends list or on a vent/x-fire/teamspeak chat room). It may take quite a time investment due to current circumstances but it's certainly possible to do it.

If you are wanting to do it for the title to add to your hall of monuments you can just be patient. Things will gradually get more stagnant. Eventually it will get to the point that people are having trouble getting oponents to a frustrating level and you can blackmail them into letting you have easy wins by them resigning. Just say that you won't join any matches against them unless there is something in it for you(they beat the crap out of you in one match and then they let you win one in the next). If they don't go along with it then you keep to your word and don't enter anymore and go do something else for a while. It may take a little more than a year for it to get to that point but I figure it will between this situation and the coming of GW2.

Killed u man · Mar 01, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Nuking the living shit out of Africa also solves the starvation problem going on there, that doesn't make it a viable solutions by any means.

6v6 and adding heroes is neither, because they were BAD ideas in the first place. Again, if you want to make HA active again, you got to start by making it fun again.

Noone enjoys HoH Cap Points, those who do are under the illusion you control your victory, rather than the 2 other teams. Why would anyone want to play a game were other people decide if you win or not, completely out of your control? Exactly, you wouldn't, and most smart players realize this. (I still HA for the fun other maps and the basic 8v8 stand off, but if HA was solely cap points, I would've left a long time ago)

People enjoy Relic Run even last. I think it's safe to say it's luck who wins, especially when you got 3 equally skilled teams. On top of that, you've got 6 people doing absolutely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all for the first 7 minutes. I mean, Relic Run, aside from being completely random, is litterely STANDING STILL FOR 7 MINUTES TO GET LUCKY IN THE LAST MINUTE. What was Anet thinking?

So removing this shitconditions would be a large way of making it fun again, because despite what people seem to believe, KoTH was ALOT more fun. And all the holding builds weren't even that bad, there was ALOT more real balanced at that time. (Not the current balanced which gets carried by a fire ele)

I'll take interrupt wars over standing still doing absolutely nothing any day.

Winterclaw · Mar 01, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Ideally there would be a guild or 3 out there who takes in unranked/low ranked players, trains them up and help them get a friends list built up and then turns them loose to start their own guilds. That would ease people in HA and help keep the format from dying.

But most people would rather get to the next rank than to help keep the format alive so I think that HA dying is a necessary thing.

OblivionDanny · Mar 01, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Nuking the living shit out of Africa also solves the starvation problem going on there, that doesn't make it a viable solutions by any means.

You can not compare real life situations to those of that in a game such as guild wars making your point invalid.

However the rest of your text seems to provide alittle insight.

One person can not change HA by "making it fun again" How do you suggest people go about doing that exactly? And if it requires everyone whom HAs then this would clearly not happen.

I personally like the fact that HoH offers a varity of different game plays, yes I like certain ones (koth) over others (relic runs especially) but that doesnt mean they should be removed, rather replaced with something else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I mean, Relic Run, aside from being completely random, is litterely STANDING STILL FOR 7 MINUTES TO GET LUCKY IN THE LAST MINUTE. What was Anet thinking?

I do agree with you on this point, however, the way it should be seen is this -> You choose to stand there for 7 minutes doing nothing, and if you do something about it then you get a full team ganking you? So rather do you think a remake of HoH would be good? Maybe turn HoH into something like the old Scarred Earth map?

axe · Mar 01, 2010, 08:46 PM // 20:46

My only suggestions:

make it so that when you lose a match, you dont go back to Zaishen, you go back to the next available map with players waiting there.

Make each map worth a certain amount of fame, so that consecutives arent going to make or break your night, because UW wins to HoH for 3 fame and then 12 min waits is an insane waste of time and thats an ideal scenario because 1v1 HoH the holding team will most likely win, which will force you to farm UW.

Revamp HoH for 1v1s balance

Current problem is that there is little incentive for teams to play weeknights because of the time/fame ratio. As more and more people realize this they play only weekends, and its getting increasingly difficult to pug or even flist.

None of the above suggestions would take much effort, just make all 3 sides of the HoH map the same, change the amount of fame won per map to a set number of points depending on the map. When you lose, go face the next team that is available giving them a chance at a higher fame map, as well as your own team.

Dei Gracia · Mar 01, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

ha has been dead... end of story

AlsPals · Mar 01, 2010, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Stuff

No, actually, I very much understand the point of the thread. The problem is HA hasn't had anything new to draw in players(like Codex did at least for a couple weeks) and no solutions to keep them there. Its not just players leaving, they all have reasons. A very good reason is the format is stale and unforgiving. Add to the fact that most of the HoH chest items value has fallen, incentives other than satisfaction just aren't there. Long waits arent the cause of players leaving. It is the result.

Krill · Mar 01, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Most people agree that the single biggest deterrent to HA is the agonizing process of forming a group. If anet really wanted to help they would make an advanced party search that automatizes the details.

For instance, if you want to start a group.

-Load in all the build codes from TB or gwfreaks (possibly with equipment too)
-Set your minimum desired rank, players not meeting it are automatically weeded out
-Set a vent / TS info that can be copied or one clicked joined
-Party leader can reorder the party through the party window GUI and still be leader outside the top possition

On the players lfg side:

-You can view the entire team build posted by leaders forming
-When you join you select which spot you want
-if you're on a PvP you're automatically rerolled to that profession with the build and equipment loaded

This would make forming groups immensely easier. Of course there are other factors killing HA, game age, tons of gimmicks, idiots in HoH etc. but the biggest road block is forming a damn group in a timely fashion.

OblivionDanny · Mar 01, 2010, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

No, actually, I very much understand the point of the thread. The problem is HA hasn't had anything new to draw in players(like Codex did at least for a couple weeks) and no solutions to keep them there.

Hence the point of the thread? Some people actually enjoyed and still enjoy HAing, just because its dying or dead to some people doesn't mean it has to continue being that way? I like to think HA is/has been a big part of PvP and thus its time it requires alittle attention at least.

The problem is, everyone is looking for something different from HA, these being:

Fame/Rank
Fun
Holding Halls
The People

The hardest thing is, not everyone can be pleased, people like things other people don't and etc...

Some people have admitted here that they may possibly join HA if it were easier to get groups, others have said they would possibly join in HA if fame were easier to get, others want different maps, different game play etc... The list could go on, but with GW2 on its way, like many have said the current resources being used on GW1 might not be enough to get these changes done. Therefore its important to try and find the most important factor to the majority of people and hopefully improve on it.

infymys · Mar 01, 2010, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Get rid of Fetid Ground, Antechamber and Forgotten Shrines.

Bring back Scarred Earth, Sacred Temples and Broken Tower into rotation with their original objectives except for maybe current King of the Hill objective on Broken.

Old school altar cap in Halls.