Curse

DreamWind · Nov 01, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

Actually HB maps are the only solution to the problems CA has. Its problem isn't skill balance but the format design that is pretty much similar to RA. The stupid 4on4 without any tactical options promotes a certain meta which doesn't have to be flexible and therefore is lame by definition.
If Anet replaced the RA-maps by the HB maps, we'd have an excellent format that could really be called PvP. The tactical element of HB is awesome and allows much more options than GvG does atm and all the problems it had in HB are none in Sealed Deck anymore.
A format that balances itself and in which the team with more skill really wins.
Now we have the chance to get it.
Add a ladder and (m)ATs and we have the ultimate format that is about a thousand times more fun than this stupid RA copy.

If you think adding HB maps is going to solve all of the problems and somehow magically balance the game in a perfect format, you got another thing coming.

CrypticFear · Nov 01, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

If you think adding HB maps is going to solve all of the problems and somehow magically balance the game in a perfect format, you got another thing coming.

If you had read even the first two sentences of what you've quoted, you'd have noticed that I don't see the problem in the skill balance.
And btw: Most people learn at school that the base of every discussion are arguments.

DreamWind · Nov 01, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

If you had read even the first two sentences of what you've quoted, you'd have noticed that I don't see the problem in the skill balance.

If you don't see a problem in skill balance, than you are a word I can't say or my post would get deleted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

And btw: Most people learn at school that the base of every discussion are arguments.

Your claim is that HB maps would solve everything. The claim is so laughable there is no use arguing with it.

CrypticFear · Nov 02, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

OK. Obviously you're not able to discuss simple issues and I don't want you to...
but wtf do you want to skill balance in a sealed deck format? Do you srsly think that CA is any better when you have nerfed 5 skills like EDA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

The stupid 4on4 without any tactical options promotes a certain meta which doesn't have to be flexible and therefore is lame by definition.

qft

Codex Guru · Nov 02, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

OK. Obviously you're not able to discuss simple issues and I don't want you to...
but wtf do you want to skill balance in a sealed deck format? Do you srsly think that CA is any better when you have nerfed 5 skills like EDA?

You don't have to nerf any skills just make skill appearance based on percentage because later campaigns have better skills. That's not nerfing just changing the rarity of cards.

Quote:

The stupid 4on4 without any tactical options promotes a certain meta which doesn't have to be flexible and therefore is lame by definition.

You could say the same about shrine capping. Promotes a certain meta (high defense, cap shrines, dual healer split) which doesn't have to be flexible and therefore lame. Throwing in HB maps is an awful idea. What will happen is everyone will carry double healers or tons of self healing because that kind of build could win with 1 kill on deathmatch maps and do well in HB maps while the reverse (high damage with little defense skills) is not true because they could not split. Your suggestion would create a highly static high defense game, boring and lame "by definition" as you put it.

Besides shrine capping is not the only tactics. Body blocking, attacking things that are not /d or /w subtype, prot defense balling (lol) are all tactics. Splitting isn't the only tactic.

CrypticFear · Nov 02, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codex Guru

You could say the same about shrine capping. Promotes a certain meta (high defense, cap shrines, dual healer split) which doesn't have to be flexible and therefore lame. Throwing in HB maps is an awful idea. What will happen is everyone will carry double healers or tons of self healing because that kind of build could win with 1 kill on deathmatch maps and do well in HB maps while the reverse (high damage with little defense skills) is not true because they could not split. Your suggestion would create a highly static high defense game, boring and lame "by definition" as you put it.

Far from it.
Even the latest HB-meta wasn't focused on pure capping and defense, although you could chose every fckin defenseskill in the game and could port over the whole map with four people. Still capbuilds didn't stand a chance and the focus lay on killing.
With sealed deck you have very poor defense with terrible monk bars, while the damage output is still quite high. Self-heal often is poor, too, so how the hell do you get to the point that any team could even have a small chance to win without killing? You obviously have never played HB.

Draikin · Nov 02, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

Still capbuilds didn't stand a chance and the focus lay on killing.

I won't disagree that HB maps can work in a sealed deck, but the builds that killed in HB were also "capbuilds". Assassins may have been killing things but that doesn't mean they weren't splitting their entire team all over the map and camping shrines. Every single hero build being used was carrying multiple defensive skills to survive in 1v1 encounters. Sealed Deck started out as an idea to solve this problem in HB, since it would have eliminated a lot of defensive options and brought the focus back to teams that actually work in a 4v4. That said I doubt the gameplay on HB maps would be all that interesting in CA if they don't update the maps and objectives. I'd imagine everyone is just going to go 4v4 and rush the Battlecry shrines (or if those aren't around, the NPC shrine), most of the time there just won't be enough defensive options left to work towards building a shrine advantage.

DreamWind · Nov 02, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

but wtf do you want to skill balance in a sealed deck format? Do you srsly think that CA is any better when you have nerfed 5 skills like EDA?

Any skill that dominates the meta and makes the meta boring should be nerfed. EDA fits this definition. And balance doesn't only mean balancing the skills...it means balancing how often they show up. But I think thats already been said.

Stop acting like HB is the answer. HB was the problem, hence why it was removed. AI clearly wasn't the only problem with HB. It was a format dominated by teleports and more inbalance than any other format has ever had.

Codex Guru · Nov 02, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrypticFear

Far from it.
Even the latest HB-meta wasn't focused on pure capping and defense, although you could chose every fckin defenseskill in the game and could port over the whole map with four people. Still capbuilds didn't stand a chance and the focus lay on killing.
With sealed deck you have very poor defense with terrible monk bars, while the damage output is still quite high. Self-heal often is poor, too, so how the hell do you get to the point that any team could even have a small chance to win without killing? You obviously have never played HB.

"Capbuilds didn't stand a chance?" Maybe your capbuilds. Maybe we should get into a pissing match about how high a worthless commander title each of us has, and even post screens

. Maybe you call defense build something else.

But here's the fact: you still ran capbuilds in HB and not normal killing builds. Capbuilds that can kill, but still capbuilds. And here's another fact: to do a split your build needs to be more self sufficient. That is "running a certain type of meta" whether you think it or not. Monk bars in Codex may be poor but there's tons of ways around it like that day with /R when nobody had snares or that day with Xinrae. And of course the third fact: players are better than AI and use defense skills like EDA and stances and so on properly.

Just a way of turning CA into HB by stealth. You don't even like RA and the first person I met to consider RA a "problem" not because of bad players or syncfix but because of lack of shrines

.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 29, 2010, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Codex has replaced two semi-active arenas. I think by now something should have been done to make it a successful arena but nothing has happened minus a few changes to ensure all classes at least have a build to use. It's just a format with too many unappealing features. Remove/replace the unappealing features and it might still have a chance.