Curse

Terrible Surgeon · Feb 11, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirmordicia

find a way to get rid of RR

The Zquest and double reward point/faction point weekends created the RR problem or what was known as "rolling." In my opinion, Arena Net showed no effort in controlling and eliminating these problems when they arose. A new arena like HB would be nice though because RA gets old due to the varied skill level of players (aka... shitters vs pros) and GvG/HA also can become monotonous.

I Jonas I · Feb 11, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

TA should replace TA

nothing else to say, really

Zuranthium · Feb 11, 2010, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I thought TA was best when it used the HB maps. Tons of fun. I'd like to see that brought back.

Also, incidentally, add the frozen map to RA. I kinda miss it, a little...

Reverend Dr · Feb 12, 2010, 01:13 AM // 01:13

TA was only good before the introduction of Glad Points

urania · Feb 12, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02

no, ta was good during ZB+purge mo/w, evisc+shock axe w/e, ba+apply+mend touch+purge r/mo and ce+grasping earth n/e meta (id say it was TA's golden age that rivaled only the boon age in terms of skill involved and the fun it made). afterwards things slowly but steadily went downhill. the hb maps only made it even more unenjoyable to play in during their implementation period.

Orange Milk · Feb 12, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

A large reason why TA was empty was it is easier to gain Glad points syncing in RA then playing TA.

1) If the brought back TA, which they should do as "removing" content is always a bad idea, the would need to either A) remove glad points from RA or B) reset RA back to the 1 Glad point per 10 wins leaving TA at the current 1 glad point for 5 wins, 2 for 10 ect. making TA more rewarding than RA.

I mean come on, An endure pain Healling hands mending wammo should have as easy a shot at getting a glad pointin RA as a team that spends time setting in TA.

2) Also, yes, add in a handful of HB maps aswell as maybe even a relic run, though with 4v4 that could be just plain stupid.

With EVERY map being Aniahlation what to you have to prepare to do? just one thing. Break it up so teams are forced to be more ballanced.

3) Leave in the Codex flair of "One of each proffesion per team" this eliminates gimmick builds, however it could lead to alot more mirrior battles, but with the addition of Idea #2 who knows.

so to recap.

1) Change the rewards
2) Change the maps
3) limit the proffesions

a ladder and aMaTs would certainly not hurt as well.

Thank you for your time.

Sup Nel

Neo Atomisk · Feb 12, 2010, 08:52 PM // 20:52

it would be nice if they had
a) TA with skills from only 1 campaign (ie: prophecies TA, Factions TA, & Nightfall TA)
or
b) RA with skills from only 1 campaign (see above)

of course, RA wouldn't bump up to these arenas.

The Third Incarnate · Feb 20, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

So, if we want to create a 4v4 format that won't die over time, why not just expand on the existing systems that are already in place? What I mean is, why not make 4v4 GvG. Bear with me on this, but just allow groups to form in guild halls and enter a random pool of other guilds that have formed 4v4 teams. If there's enough support for 24/7 8v8 GvG, the easier requirements of 4v4 GvG will almost certainly have a playerbase.

Reasons this is good- 1, it could fixed to not affect guild rating, so no champ point farmers. 2- much easier to set up than regular GvG. 3-Requires no radical changes to maps or skills.

My other, much more radical idea would be a random 8v8 arena. Take the old HB maps and put 8 randomly spawning players in the starting zones and tell them to cap. HB maps are small, and this would lead to a ridiculous amount of combat from players. might as well make the spawn times 30 seconds like in FQ/FA. This eliminates the slanted nature of FA, and the capping frezies at JQ because you actually have to hold a shrine to win. At the end of every match, boot everyone, and give them 1 point to some title that will make them feel good about themselves. Noobs and PvE players would love this. Isn't it the aspiration of every player in RA to get their G1, so they can maybe get onto some decent teams in HA and GvG? 8v8 is so discriminatory, that a random system would allow everyone (not just you R9+ players) to enjoy 8v8.

Now, see, I know that neither of my ideas will be taken seriously by anyone. Heck, it is just a posting on Guru, ain't it? Just lookin for discussion.

And codex is already dead, why not just remove it?

Corporeal Ghost · Feb 21, 2010, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Third Incarnate

And codex is already dead, why not just remove it?

How about the dozens of complaint and petition threads regarding the other two removed formats that were also dead?

Chocobo1 · Feb 21, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

How about the dozens of complaint and petition threads regarding the other two removed formats that were also dead?

Tbh compared to codex, TA and HB were the going pretty well.

Revelations · Feb 21, 2010, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Tbh compared to codex, TA and HB were the going pretty well.

This has been done to death a million times before, but I'll bite anyway.

The only reason HB seemed more active was because it required a single person. Plus it had ATs, mATs and a ladder. And the only reason TA wasn't completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dead was RA spillover.

Codex may be in it's death throes, but it's more active than either of it's predecessors.

Chocobo1 · Feb 21, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

This has been done to death a million times before, but I'll bite anyway.

The only reason HB seemed more active was because it required a single person. Plus it had ATs, mATs and a ladder. And the only reason TA wasn't completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dead was RA spillover.

Codex may be in it's death throes, but it's more active than either of it's predecessors.

I agree with the TA part, but why is HB penalized for requiring one person? Thats what I loved about it, could jump right in at any stage.

tinygod · Mar 03, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

First, Codex would have done this if it wasn't implemented terribly. There are people that begged for Codex for months and refuse to play it now because the implementation is so bad.

Any replacement for TA is going to bring the same level of bitching. Even bringing TA back directly is going to have that impact at this point. The ~50 serious codex players are just as numerous as the ~50 serious TA players were.

We are not saying there is zero PvP updating going on. We're saying that these resources are extremely precious and they need to be spent keeping the current game types alive rather than adding new ones.

Many of us will not buy the sequel based on how ANet has treated the PvP playerbase in the first game.

You make me laugh.

1) you will buy the sequal
2) you will play it
3) you will wait a few years come to the foroums and post about the good old days
4) you will buy GW3

The cycle continues

Sorry to point this out, but you know its true. The fact is ANET didint screw the PVP community, they didnt thin it either. The game is just 5 years old. And if anyone is to blame it was the elitist community.

New player comes to Team arena.

Vets: SHOW US YOUR WOLF, DRAGON ETC..

New Player: My what?

Vets: GTFO NEWB THIS IS FOR PROS

New Player: but I just wanna play in a team

Vets: DIE

New player goes to play wow

Anets only mistake was giving people titles for PVP, it caues elitism, and that will ALWAYS break a community into tiny little pieces. They should have had

1) random arena
2) Team arena
3) GVG
4) TEAM Objective (TEAM GVG) form teams in the waiting area and do GVG
5) Random CODEX, Team CODEX

That is all a given, and they had most of it, where they fell short was Aspenwood style pvp, objective based, large team, random. This was awesome, but it was so unbalanced for the attackers that it started being farmed and than died off.

People say Capture the flag is stupid, I say its a staple of PVP and should be in every game.

Shadow Feathers · Mar 03, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Would love to see it stay as is but with the random que to enter the battle. The only problem you'll have there is what you already pointed out.... the elite P vs P players will never stop crying if it was ever done. It would generate a lot more people playing that area though. As it stands now it's just the TA arena with a sealed deck and the same people controling what's being done there.

GO RANDOM !!!

Zuranthium · Mar 03, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

the hb maps only made it even more unenjoyable to play in during their implementation period.

Hardly. Movement and skirmish play requires more skill and allows for more diversity. The meta that you talk about (ZB Mo/W, W/E, Ranger, Necro) was better than some, standard straight-up 4v4 skill had some precedence, but it was still too much about one specific thing - cancel casting Purge Signet all day long. Playing a game of who can cancel cast best is not the most interesting thing.

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 04, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

TA should replace TA

nothing else to say, really

LOL, I said this exact thing and Caram deleted my post.

/rage

urania · Mar 04, 2010, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Hardly. Movement and skirmish play requires more skill and allows for more diversity. The meta that you talk about (ZB Mo/W, W/E, Ranger, Necro) was better than some, standard straight-up 4v4 skill had some precedence, but it was still too much about one specific thing - cancel casting Purge Signet all day long. Playing a game of who can cancel cast best is not the most interesting thing.

the more different objectives become mixed in an arena consisting of only 4 people and thus 32 skills the more it becomes rps. why on earth do you dislike simple eliminations? the fact that TA was as straightforward in terms of objectives as it was presented one of the things that appealed to plenty of players, including myself.
flag running is gay enough if you dont have at least 1 caster on your team (so 2 warrs + 1 r or 2 r+1 warr were automatically handicapped on such maps), let alone if you face some "dedicated" flag running team with multiple /a instances.......moreover, given the 0 attention skillbalance-wise anet dedicated to TA, implementing even more features to an already broken arena would hardly appeal to anyone but runners.

and no, it wasnt much about cancel casting purge, since there was no magebane signet; you used purge either under the effects of guardian (which was actually worth carrying because there was no defile yet) or stance.

Corporeal Ghost · Mar 04, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinygod

You make me laugh.

Literally everything in your post is wrong; you have no idea what you are talking about. I can go into detail if you would like, but I'm pretty sure it gets deleted if I put it here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

flag running

This is more because the docks map is horribly designed and you can't simply choose to ignore the flag. It's not an issue on a map where the flag pewpew does not cover the entire map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

why on earth do you dislike simple eliminations?

Annihilation-only gives you garbage like EDA and Gothspike. These builds literally cannot win both annihilation and, for example, a HB map. Your so-called balanced build featuring Ranger and Necro requires a change of, at most, two skills, to have a good shot at dominating people on other maps. Should TA (codex) turn into HA? Absolutely not. I just want something to break up the 4v4 fortresses that bore you to death, and if I'm going to chase Gothspike around the map for 8 minute anyway, I might as well win an objective map instead of draw.

I can't tell you what or how many objective maps should be added. I'm thinking something like 10-20% of matches should be non-annihilation. There was about a week where ANet implemented HB maps in RA/TA, and it was pretty much the most fun I've ever had there.

ElnoreVarda · Mar 04, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Costume brawl without gamer points. No new title either. Just make it reward Bfaction.
New builds once a week, could throw in the old HB maps because more maps=fun. Please.

urania · Mar 04, 2010, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

This is more because the docks map is horribly designed and you can't simply choose to ignore the flag. It's not an issue on a map where the flag pewpew does not cover the entire map.

Annihilation-only gives you garbage like EDA and Gothspike. These builds literally cannot win both annihilation and, for example, a HB map. Your so-called balanced build featuring Ranger and Necro requires a change of, at most, two skills, to have a good shot at dominating people on other maps. Should TA (codex) turn into HA? Absolutely not. I just want something to break up the 4v4 fortresses that bore you to death, and if I'm going to chase Gothspike around the map for 8 minute anyway, I might as well win an objective map instead of draw.

I can't tell you what or how many objective maps should be added. I'm thinking something like 10-20% of matches should be non-annihilation. There was about a week where ANet implemented HB maps in RA/TA, and it was pretty much the most fun I've ever had there.

you ignored my point about limiting build choices with flag running.
its like the original ff version and even its "nerfed" form - just like ff made running any other cond removal obsolete, capping-based maps would make highly offensive team builds become even more obsolete as they've already become ever since ff came into play. the reasons for that are obvious enough, i hope. a 4v4 environment is just _too_small_ for some great tactics outside positioning and using the map to your advantage.

moreover, please dont point your finger at characteristics of an arena when the blame lies on lousy and slugish skill balance - making eda melee (as theyve done now for ca.....) and implementing the codex rules alone would completely obliteterated some of the most annoying gimmicks (hexway was another prob and stil is in bigger formats, so was the insta-gib wail necro "balanced" setup you're probably referring to).
(for the record, shove-way would own you on pretty much ANY map, especially a flag one - if you cant see that, then i really dont know if there's a point in continuing this discussion).

i played during that week - and for the most part, it was mostly consisted of chasing teams teleporting up and down across the map (oh glory of heart of shadow) or otherwise an unpleasant arena to fight in.
you cant dedicate chars in 4v4 to run flags like you can in 8v8, but if you do its just plain griefing since you'll (or should) lose on pretty much any other map.