Curse

Ariena Najea · May 23, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

any suggestions countering mesmers while your monking besides ujst using low energy sets? we actually considered bring stuff like spell breaker etc for the lolz, personally i would rather SW sins then this at least i have energy to do stuff.

The problem with using weapon sets intelligently is that you simply can't afford to take the damage from Mind Wrack. Its recharge is low enough that you can't remove it effectively.

Dontuz · May 23, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Toying around and mashing my buttons - this is the result.

Mind Wrack is pretty good

, and yeah I know this is RA and blah blah, but its not supposed to be THIS easy. Needs to be toned down imo

Myotheraccount · May 24, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Anet is wonderful. They got swarms of Mes bots in PvP and they buff Messes. Roflmao.

Del · May 24, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dontuz

Toying around and mashing my buttons - this is the result.

Mind Wrack is pretty good

, and yeah I know this is RA and blah blah, but its not supposed to be THIS easy. Needs to be toned down imo

you need to enlarge your compass.

*lemming* · May 24, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

You guys are blowing this way out of proportion. It's a little on the overpowered side, but not anywhere near as obnoxious as Seeping Wound, Escape Rangers, Warrior's Endurance, or VoR garbage.

The skill-to-success ratio of these dom mesmers is quite possibly lower than that of a seeping sin.

cantalus · May 24, 2010, 12:26 AM // 00:26

yup, esurge mesmering is not subtle or considered

Shayne Hawke · May 24, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I'll make a note that when we did this Mesmer update in the Krewe, it was specifically geared towards buffing the profession in a PvE setting, and was set to have as few splits as possible, per what the PvP crowd thought would have been too strong in PvP. You should have seen what happened when Robert compiled the planned updates a few weeks ago and showed it straight to the PvPers. They were hysterical.

I'm sure the Devs have been reading the forums and observing what an impact this update is having on the game, in all departments. Whether a toning down of the Mesmer skills will happen or not is dependent on how much pressure we, the other Krewe members and the community, can put on them to look at it before moving on to potential Paragon, Dervish, and miscellaneous changes.

Warvic · May 24, 2010, 01:48 AM // 01:48

yeh like u all said. they don't bring mesmers to the right lvl. the just make it imba again. they did same with ritu's. In pve i don't care about it. in pvp it get's annoying. i'm an RA player so this update is not making RA more FUn

Quote:

Originally Posted by interpret interupt

I agree with this post. As a prot monk for he last two years, each random buff update has just made monking harder and harder. There hasn't really been a true balance this entire year. And now the meta is lets see which teams' monks can die first.
gg anet- well at least I can say that I am getting plenty of survival practice lol

Actually.. Staying alive 24/7 or dying more has not ALOT to do with balance in msot games. It's more important to give every team an fair chance. If both has same chances, it's balanced. BUT in GW we have builds, so GW has an differnt sort of balanced play. Like u said, staying alive longer. Wich is not good actually. Because it's boring. Prolly another reason why so much people play pve over pvp. in pve u can just kill stuff. And see enemies die! In pvp u just feel useless. So now with more e-pressure we also get more deaths, wich is actually good if u ask me.

FoxBat · May 24, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Given mind wrack and possibly instability is stupid, but back in the "golden days" mesmers were all about e-denial and not much about interrupts. Where's that nostalgia now?

Del · May 24, 2010, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Given mind wrack and possibly instability is stupid, but back in the "golden days" mesmers were all about e-denial and not much about interrupts. Where's that nostalgia now?

e-denial is one thing, blowing shit up in the process is another.

*lemming* · May 24, 2010, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Given mind wrack and possibly instability is stupid, but back in the "golden days" mesmers were all about e-denial and not much about interrupts. Where's that nostalgia now?

Monk bars were less energy-efficient back then, and edenial skills didn't also do 120378179427 damage.

bhavv · May 24, 2010, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Ok, the mesmer balances are completely fine if they buff other stuff to compensate.

Heres how to balance them:

Spell Breaker - change to 5 / 1 / 20 with a 30 sec duration.

Mesmers are now balanced, yay!

On a serious note, expecting monks to adapt to being locked on 0 energy while taking continuous damage and being plummeled by a hammer war, SW sin, or Lyssas derv sounds like such a wonderful idea, that I think I would rather just delete my monk instead.

Oh wait, that still had sarcasm somewhere, I fail @ serious.

Darth The Xx · May 24, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I'm just waiting for someone to roll a BiP necro into GvG.

Also whoever came up with the idea of making MoI non-elite AND drain energy has little grasp on game balance.

Sirius Bsns · May 24, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

I'm just waiting for someone to roll a BiP necro into GvG.

LOL don't forget "The Power Is Yours!", "Never Give Up!", Song of Power, and all the rest of the bad e-gain skills out there...

On a serious note though, remove the damage caused by Mind Wrack [or at least tone it down to about 10 damage, increase the recharge to about 12 seconds (the same standard recharge as that of hex removals like cure hex, deny hexes, etc.), and reduce the duration to about 15-18 seconds if the current functionality is to be kept. This would balance things out pretty well while still keeping the strong potential for e-denial.

Corporeal Ghost · May 24, 2010, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

seeping wound was simple enough to deal with playing smart, the e denial does insane damage while making anything you try to do a shitton more difficult, PI kds as long earthshaker, has a larger kd range than earthshaker, is usable in a fraction of the time, rupts anything, goes through blocks, etc, etc. WE wasn't this bad, seeping would wasn't this bad, escape rangers weren't this bad.

Agreed PI is pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure it merits an elite slot given other options, though, so we probably won't see that ridiculousness until three or four other skills get the axe.

Disagree on everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Monk bars were less energy-efficient back then

This is the heart of the problem. Patient and WoH still need to be hit. RC is probably here to stay, but honestly, it's not THAT energy efficient in the current metagame if you're not packing a Cripslash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

edenial skills didn't also do 120378179427 damage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

e-denial is one thing, blowing shit up in the process is another.

This is crap, though. They've always been like that. Go look at the archives. ESurge used to do MORE damage because it had gigantic range. It does slightly more damage to individual targets now. Mind Wrack had that extra tick of ~25 added, but lest we forget, everyone ran superiors waaaay back then, so they were about 10 higher on the base, not to mention the decreased health (and thus relative improved value of damage) on the targets. Oh, and it had a shorter recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

any suggestions countering mesmers while your monking besides ujst using low energy sets?

Bringing Spirit Bond again helps with the damage. It's not fantastic on your energy, though.

And you could always try packing a Glyph or some Inspiration. God forbid anyone played without dual stances.

ESurge is currently so devastating because everything is still configured not to blow up to random overpowered assassin skills and/or Warrior's Endurance. Rollback to the last time EDenial was viable, and you actually had respected community members essentially laughing at anyone who was running /W or /A on a monk because of the energy issues implied therein.

Not to mention everyone has forgotten how to play against EDenial. It requires more than intelligent swapping, before you feed me that line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

The skill-to-success ratio of these dom mesmers is quite possibly lower than that of a seeping sin.

RA seems like the ideal place to test this given the player quality, and I can say definitively I'd rather play against ESurge than Seeping Wound. Granted, 8v8 has a different dynamic and the other team's warriors have more than a 3% chance of knowing that they're more effective on a non-spear swap. ESurge seems like an amplifier more than a stand-alone, which is probably why it's so hard for me to gage until people log in so I can GvG.

But even if that's true, ESurge creates a much more interesting dynamic than Seeping Wound mid-match.

Mostly it seems to me that people are bitching because monks can actually break again, which is exactly what a lot of people wanted, though many of them didn't realize it--pressure playstyle possible without Chiizu and Champ on your team. This update is growing on me increasingly.

And for the record, Mind Wrack could probably be toned down a bit. I'm withholding judgment on ESurge until I play with and against it outside of RA. PI is pretty insane, but probably not ultimately that unfair. Compare it to Power Block or even Cry of Frustration. I don't even remember most of the rest of the update because I don't see it having that much impact. I suppose Signet of Humility may get injected back into the metgame. Keystone Signet is quite possibly the worst-designed skill in Guild Wars now. Right up there with EDA.

Edit: Overload is stupid. I'm not sure how I overlooked that. The skill is the heart of the damage problem everyone is talking about, right? It really doesn't need to exist.

Quail Stomp · May 24, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Overload and WW are a bit much. A dom mesmer can cap in ab and jq just as fast as most eles without taking much dmg if any at all.

Greedy Gus · May 24, 2010, 06:12 AM // 06:12

The problem is there are enough low recharge skills now that you can make strong edenial + damage bars that just sit there spamming the whole time on wrack targets. Before, there was an interesting energy sub-game because timing was involved: the spells to create & destroy energy had restrictive recharges so they have to be played off each other, and it took some attention & skill to wipe out a monk's casting set with a nice shot (while they try to protect from taking those big shots in the wrong sets). Surge & burn also doubled as spike skills putting more pressure on making them count, forcing decision-making because they had multiple uses but not the frequency to do everything.

Now you can just spam away and be sure that whenever a monk has to move into a casting set, they'll take a useful energy hit; meanwhile they keep eating the lower wrack damage from each spell you cast and the full amount when bottoming out.

It's certainly true that modern defenses have evolved (and been buffed) to be insanely sturdy & efficient against typical metas and will need to adjust to deal with this buff update. But we don't have to highfive anet on making more ridiculously strong buttonmash templates just because dom mesmers were considered a skill position and they're forcing defenses to adapt.

*lemming* · May 24, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

But even if that's true, ESurge creates a much more interesting dynamic than Seeping Wound mid-match.

Both work fine if you just hit 1234567, but assassins can do stuff besides follow a monk around and press buttons as they light up.

RespectMe · May 24, 2010, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Mesmer has never been a pve profession so this update had absolutely no point, it was a prof for pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Isn't it obvious we're being trolled by Anet/Test Krewe?

And yes it's obviously a troll...

FoxBat · May 24, 2010, 08:21 AM // 08:21

To be clear again: mind wrack is like 250+ damage and e-denial for 5 energy. It's obvious where the problem lies. There is not a need to bellyache about edenial in general.