Curse

Jam Jar · Apr 17, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I have always been an adamant supporter of having 100% strong field vision and perception over redbarwhoring, but some people think otherwise (coughcoughguildleader). For example, I know hardcore HA protters that claim that red barring prots is more efficient than watching. Is field watching more efficient than red barring, perhaps in certain classes? Is a combination of field watching and redbarring best? Or are redbarRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs the most efficient?

Especially to other classes, I don't know how much field vision will be of use. When playing warrior, I realize that understanding the push and pull currents ultimately leads to victory, but how can I use field vision to examine general pressure? There doesn't seem to be many marks or clues beside from watching red bars and possibly score. If on vent, the situation gets a lot easier to handle, but if you're using vent, would that degrade field visioning into decreasing use and importance?

Div · Apr 17, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

For example, I know hardcore HA protters that claim that red barring prots is more efficient than watching.

In a 3-way where there is simply too much to keep track of, it's sometimes better to randomly spam prots than to land good prots under channeling. Think of it this way. Since everything you cast is essentially free, it doesn't matter as much if you miss a few prots. Landing 3 good prots out of 6-7 casts is going to be just as good as landing 3 good prots out of 3. Plus you get the side benefit of if they ever switch off to the 3-4 other guys you randomly protted, they're already pre-protted!

Quote:

Is field watching more efficient than red barring, perhaps in certain classes?

In a situation where you don't have near infinite energy (most 1v1 HA matches and GvG), redbarring is a pretty bad idea. You can't afford to waste energy on protting the wrong target simply because they casted OoB or something. Say you only have enough energy for 3 prots in the next 10 seconds. You don't want to risk missing prots because you're just looking at redbars.

Also, on a heal monk, you want to gauge the effectiveness of using guardian versus casting woh/patient. Is your guardian going to prevent more than 100-150 damage in the long run (including blocks and slowing adren building/other condis)? Chances are, if you're redbarring, you wouldn't have a clue.

Redbarring is alright against some spikes where you can't (or don't have enough time to) tell which way they're facing and see who they're going to spike. The first drop of health after you see a spike skill being used, you try to prot. Obviously, if the ghostly decides to powershot someone, you will misprot, but that's better than nothing at all.

Quote:

but how can I use field vision to examine general pressure?

Look at monk and defensive midline weapon sets. You should be able to identify when a monk is running low on energy based on the set. There are also poison/bleeding animations on the characters themselves besides the red bar.

House Silvermoon · Apr 18, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

generally u wanna do both, but have a lot more fieldwatching.

dr love · Apr 18, 2010, 11:06 PM // 23:06

As div said.

1v1 = watch ze field. Personally I always had trouble following more than 2 frontliners (sway/iway/bb) or 2 good frontliners. In those cases I redbar out of desperation or just focus on one damage dealer and spam prots on the infuse, as there really isn't enough prots or energy to go around.

When holding on 3 way (not 1v1) king of the hill, you have to adapt to the opponents (SFway? IWAY? spike team? balanced? fukkin mezmers? bspike?). Panic mode is run around the altar, guardian yourself, aura infuse, soa the ghost, spam LS and SB the backline or the ghost.

When holding on 3 way (not 1v1) cap points = channel tank like a champ and spam like never before. Don't let ghost die after time. Everyone else is pretty expendable.

Nerf Me Haha · Apr 21, 2010, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Generaly, you'll want to always watch the field no matter what map it is or if it's HoH or 1v1 match. If it's a 1v1 it shouldn't be hard to spot spikes from Balanced or Pressure - like teams , but catching spikes by watching the Redbars as a Prot is quite meh, your there to Pre-prot, not to prot while a spike is already at least halfway through because it'll most likely force an Infuse from the other monk.

Elephantaliste · Apr 21, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

Especially to other classes, I don't know how much field vision will be of use. When playing warrior, I realize that understanding the push and pull currents ultimately leads to victory, but how can I use field vision to examine general pressure? There doesn't seem to be many marks or clues beside from watching red bars and possibly score. If on vent, the situation gets a lot easier to handle, but if you're using vent, would that degrade field visioning into decreasing use and importance?

As a matter of fact, field vision is about positionning, preprot, (pre)kitting, reckonizing long casting skills and predict spikes.
Apart that, general field view UI is kinda deficient, you still need to target each foe to check his hp and what he is casting. That's why CTRL+clicking foe important skills or yours is usefull to help your team to get aware of what is happening. (Other solutions : communicating with vocal system (not always available for casual groups) or cheating (not a wanted solution for regular players)).
While it is clearly part of gw now, fast tabbing is just a required way offered in game to play a blind game.

Kosar The Cruel · May 01, 2010, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Monks it seems just need to be able to see there radar, there health/energy/skill bar, and the party menu to be nice and big for easy visibility and click-ability.
Melee classes tend to need a larger field of vision so they can more easily see what needs to be attacked(switch targets) and if they should move behind something b/c of them pesky rangers.
As for rit/ele/mes I assume it's all about preferences unless they are playing a healer class.

Regulus X · May 01, 2010, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Field-watching is good for prots like guardian, SoD, stability, and so on... as well as condition removals (i.e.: blind, weakness, hexes on your offense, etc.). Redbarring is good to use anytime any player's bar is not completely red, but the key thing is to calculate the rate of health loss on a teammate while factoring in the cast time of your PS/RoF/WoH to attain the perfect redbarring technique. Also, knowing to remove deep wounds and LC hexes before healing is a big thing. Healing through dw negates 20% healing as we all know, so a good monk knows to remove it prior to throwing a PS on that teammate.

Field vision, while not required, definitely has its rewards!

Oster · May 07, 2010, 11:07 PM // 23:07

It's a mixture of both but field vision takes more precedence. If you're redbarring it's not an actual representation of who's getting hit. Someone might be taking a bit of AoE damage from Savannahs Heat and you'd prot them under the assumption that they might be getting trained by a war. You have to watch the field if you want to be efficient at monking and managing energy.

Link6590 · Jun 01, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26

field vision definitely. If your just watching redbars, your definitely gunna miss those two warriors charring towards you. If you can, try practicing monking without your party window open. Its loads more interesting and adds a whole new skill if you can master it.

Corporeal Ghost · Jun 02, 2010, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Just throwing this out there...

The best monk I've ever played with--no one else was even close--would occasionally allow degen deaths because he wasn't paying attention to the redbars.

edit: Most people will tell you they're field-watching when they're not. 5 years into the game, very few people will admit they're deficient at it. You can generally tell who is watching and who isn't with a few passes of obsmode. I'd recommend really getting on your guild's case about this one. This is probably the single biggest thing that will make them better at the game, as literally everything is influenced by it.

Of course, if you're not trying to make your team competitive, it doesn't really matter.

Bloss · Jun 16, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Prot: can do without redbars but not without field vision. Both is better for conditions (though deep wound has priority and is inflicted mainly by the wars you're watching)

Heal: both, but can manage with mainly healbar, just really needs field for infuse. (HA red bar is like all you need imo)

Flag: red bar when running, field (+bar) while at main

All others: Field, only need red bar for rezzes, catching people in castersets is nice.