Curse

saume · Aug 12, 2010, 10:04 PM // 22:04

its for balanced (whirling axe/dev hammer/magebane + rend/esurge/prism water/prot/infuse/trident rit flagger)

so basically, i want sig of hum on my esurge mesmer bar, for the utility (disable cripshot when pushing flags, disable devhammer when taking pressure, disable woh to pressure their backline, u get the point), cos i think it could be a very strong skill in gvg

i dont know wat to take it out for it(for gvg, btw)

pdrain: needed emanagement, unless u get it some other way?
esurge: damage for spikes, altho i think you only need unnat sig, shatter ench and shatter delusions for spikes, this way u can spike every 10 seconds and it opens up elite skill slot (which i have no idea wat i would replace it with)
unnat signet: basic spike skill
shatter delusions: i think its the best option to replace spiritual pain now, it triggers mind wrack before removing it and if mind wrack ends because of esurge, then u get the 94 from mind wrack and u can follow up with unnat or shatter enchantment i guess
shatter enchantment:
flesh: i think fast cast hard rez is very strong, i wouldnt remove that skill from there
diversion: def not removing this
mind wrack: it woudl really hurt to remove this from the build, it adds 48 damage to any spike (potentially more if energy drops to 0)

at first i was thinking to remove unnat signet for sig of hum and just use e surge on spikes

but now im thinking about removing esurge for sig of hum, pdrain for emanage elite (pref a rupt - power leech? idk if that would work well) and keeping unnat signet for spikes (big downside to this is u get ur non-mes skills disabled alot, tho - i believe u can just use it smartly or w/e)

and for the prot, here are the skills i absolutely want:

aegis/spirit bond: i personnally prefer aegis (very reliable against strong spikes and good to push flag when time is running out), i would love to have both in a bar but the only skill i see that i could remove for spirit bond is RoF, which will greatly hurt the splitability of the prot and possibly the e management too (but TBH, i do not use RoF much as a prot, i mainly use guardian and shielding hands, i almost only use RoF against spike builds when shielding hands or aegis is on recharge, and i believe spirit bond would prolly do as good as RoF at that)
shielding hands: a must, 1/4 and great damage reduction, this is the skill any prot should use the most besides guardian (then again, it depends on wat team u play against)
guardian: a must, this is the skill any prot should use the most (depending on wat kind of team ure playing, i guess)
aura of stability: also a must, unless every1 on your team has a counter to knockdowns or you have like 2x brace yourself (or for some reason, some1 else has AoS or balth's pendulum)
balanced stance/dolyak signet/disciplined stance/return: i personally prefer dolyak, because of all the trip frontline with stance removal shit going on (yes, it does slow u down for 8 seconds, but if u use it, its because u would be on ur ass otherwise - likely for at least 6 seconds - which would slow u even more, without adding armor and allowing u to cast skills) and it has shorter recharge than balanced stance

and the optional skills:

RC/mend cond/dismiss cond/mend touch: i think if u can prot well, u dont need RC to keep a team alive and i would rather go with PnH (personnal pref) and mend cond or dismiss cond - mend touch i would only use if i used return, but even with return its 10 energy for cond removal and 15sec recharge and u need return to save ur ass, too - big downside to not using RC is that u MIGHT not remove DW, which is the main reason u usually use RC
veil/PnH: if not taking veil, the infuse MUST take it, it is a too strong skill to not have it on ur backline
RoF/AoF/SoA/(Spirit Bond): i would like to use SoA but its a 1sec casting which kinda makes me not wanna drop RoF for it, but its a strong prot which i kinda like, i would also like to drop RoF for SB, but i dont know if any1 has tried that, wat about energy and when u go back on splits with flagger?

i might have missed some very good options, but anyways, lmk wat u think (try to actually have a point or something, not just saying wat skill u would use and nothing else)

Grumpy Bear · Aug 12, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I don't know at what level you play GvG but do you really think that a skill like Sig Hum is going to be allowed to get off? The first time you get WoH or RC the monks will call for it to be interupted and, tbh, its hardly a difficult skill to interupt.

*lemming* · Aug 12, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Most expendable skill on that bar is Flesh.

Pnh loses you more games than it'll win. If the other team is running either a Barbed Signet or an Apply, you're on a very short clock.

saume · Aug 12, 2010, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear

I don't know at what level you play GvG but do you really think that a skill like Sig Hum is going to be allowed to get off? The first time you get WoH or RC the monks will call for it to be interupted and, tbh, its hardly a difficult skill to interupt.

its a signet, that should tell enough, diversion is also used by alot of the top guilds, its almost the same casting time... also its totally not only for rc and woh, if that was wat u were thinking maybe i should be the one asking wat level you play GvG

Grumpy Bear · Aug 12, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

I used RC and Woh as an example, as did you. Diversion can be 40/40, signets cant.

saume · Aug 12, 2010, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear

I used RC and Woh as an example, as did you. Diversion can be 40/40, signets cant.

signets can be cancel cast at wish

saume · Aug 12, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Most expendable skill on that bar is Flesh.

Pnh loses you more games than it'll win. If the other team is running either a Barbed Signet or an Apply, you're on a very short clock.

i never RC psn or bleed, and also, theres a magebane ranger in the team, but i do agree that RC is very strong

Grumpy Bear · Aug 12, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by saume

signets can be cancel cast at wish

Because spells can't be cancel cast can they.....

chadS · Aug 13, 2010, 12:15 AM // 00:15

saume,

You clearly don't understand, nor do you know what you're talking about.

When people give their opinions when you ask for them, don't go around saying they are wrong. And in this case, you are the one that's wrong.

saume · Aug 13, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear

Because spells can't be cancel cast can they.....

signets cost no energy to cast/cancel/cast again

saume · Aug 13, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadS

saume,

You clearly don't understand, nor do you know what you're talking about.

When people give their opinions when you ask for them, don't go around saying they are wrong. And in this case, you are the one that's wrong.

ok well if ure mad i dont care,i dont care about ur opinion neither, im asking people about their opinions on a subject, that doesnt mean i cant RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reply

Sirius Bsns · Aug 13, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear

Because spells can't be cancel cast can they.....

cuz wasting 5+ energy is a waaay better deal than not wasting energy...

IrishX · Aug 13, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

cuz wasting 5+ energy is a waaay better deal than not wasting energy...

PDrain pretty much makes energy irrelevant.

Grumpy Bear · Aug 13, 2010, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

cuz wasting 5+ energy is a waaay better deal than not wasting energy...

What is the point you're trying to make? Or are you just trying to be a fail troll? Are you trying to say that cancel-casting is bad? Cos I'd rather cancel-cast a few times than risk getting something DShot, energy loss is negligible.

fowlero · Aug 14, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Sig of hum is a waste of time in balanced.

You shouldn't have to be resorting to simply disabling elites to cause pressure, take pressure off your team etc. Your players should know how to do that.

The mesmer bar in balanced is crammed enough as it is, taking any of those skills out detracts more from the teambuild than you gain by taking humsig if you're playing balanced properly.

As per one of your examples, disabling dev hammer really won't do that much and you'd be much better off having your ranger take out apply or run 1 flag on a war, though what gain from the last point depends heavily on map.

Disabling monk elites is only gonna make pressure when their team's already pressured, during which case you're better off just forcing diversions/shames on the monks instead.

As others have said to you, hum sig can't get 40/40 so any decent team won't let you get it off most of the time. You say spells cost energy, but you only have to dodge perhaps 2 rupts before it goes off if you have a ranger near you, if you proc a 40/40 maybe only once if at all. The energy cost really isn't that bad, especially with power drain.

In this meta where triple war with ranger and barbed signet necro, dropping RC is shooting yourself in the foot. Heal party is strong, but it will not outheal that. However if you're insistant on running PnH then at least take Mend Ailment, so that you still get the big heal on condition stacks.

saume · Aug 15, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

Sig of hum is a waste of time in balanced.

You shouldn't have to be resorting to simply disabling elites to cause pressure, take pressure off your team etc. Your players should know how to do that.

The mesmer bar in balanced is crammed enough as it is, taking any of those skills out detracts more from the teambuild than you gain by taking humsig if you're playing balanced properly.

As per one of your examples, disabling dev hammer really won't do that much and you'd be much better off having your ranger take out apply or run 1 flag on a war, though what gain from the last point depends heavily on map.

Disabling monk elites is only gonna make pressure when their team's already pressured, during which case you're better off just forcing diversions/shames on the monks instead.

As others have said to you, hum sig can't get 40/40 so any decent team won't let you get it off most of the time. You say spells cost energy, but you only have to dodge perhaps 2 rupts before it goes off if you have a ranger near you, if you proc a 40/40 maybe only once if at all. The energy cost really isn't that bad, especially with power drain.

In this meta where triple war with ranger and barbed signet necro, dropping RC is shooting yourself in the foot. Heal party is strong, but it will not outheal that. However if you're insistant on running PnH then at least take Mend Ailment, so that you still get the big heal on condition stacks.

thanks for the first good argument

(and pdrain doesnt make energy irrevelant for the other guy, cancel cast diversion a few times and then keep spreading ur mind wrack and w/e...)

Playing Is Srs Bsns · Aug 15, 2010, 07:54 AM // 07:54

U got draw/rc/blurred/dshot for enemys cripshot. I think humsig is useless, cos A) it gets rupted B) only conditions u got are cripple+dw. Why dolyak on prot monk in gvg?