Curse

Killed u man · Aug 27, 2010, 03:46 PM // 15:46

@ Fierce,

Clearly, that was directed at the double fame weekend. Also, average waiting times aren't 1 minute, it's 30 seconds. (0-60, average =30) If you count double fame, you're already well over 1K.

Also, hold your horses, no reason to get all mad over some forum posts...

@ Missing:

MATH and eB aren't lucky. They're both guilds who are good at the builds they play. Don't misread this is as good players, because they're not. Some of them are alright, others even semi-capable of running non-hexway/bbsway. But in general, they win, and hold, so much because just like WoOm in their glory days: they play all day, every day.

Again, they are just guilds really good at what they do, which is play trashbuilds all day long. I played with them a couple of times before aswell, and they are really nice people aswell...

diabiosx · Aug 27, 2010, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

@ Fierce,

Clearly, that was directed at the double fame weekend. Also, average waiting times aren't 1 minute, it's 30 seconds. (0-60, average =30) If you count double fame, you're already well over 1K.

Also, hold your horses, no reason to get all mad over some forum posts...

@ Missing:

MATH and eB aren't lucky. They're both guilds who are good at the builds they play. Don't misread this is as good players, because they're not. Some of them are alright, others even semi-capable of running non-hexway/bbsway. But in general, they win, and hold, so much because just like WoOm in their glory days: they play all day, every day.

Again, they are just guilds really good at what they do, which is play trashbuilds all day long. I played with them a couple of times before aswell, and they are really nice people aswell...

I already gave you the shortest possible time to reach halls. I don't know what you are complaining about
you wait 1minute for UW to start, it takes ~10seconds to start fighting, that means you must wipe the team in 37seconds if you want 2min UW. if you wipe them from 0:49to1:47seconds then it is about a 60-1second wait time, which again makes 3minute UW match.(the shortest possible time i gave you)

WoOm did not play all day, you are not part of the guild we dont play with you because you are a no name please dont make it sound like you know us. Its almost like me saying this:
Btw Killed U Man do you know this guy called Borat? He plays all day and never wins halls and no one likes to play with him.
ALL i am saying is stop lying and get the facts straight dont by a hater and nickpick irrevelent things to make yourself credible. you dont know anything about this game period. please dont spread false information

vinoth · Aug 27, 2010, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I was at a festival, so I wasn't able to play at all, but Nick (Aries the apocalyte as you know him, my right hand in balanced every time we beat WoOm/KeYs/...) played a SF spike and got 1K fame in under 3 hours.

Bollocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

MATH and eB aren't lucky. They're both guilds who are good at the builds they play. Don't misread this is as good players, because they're not. Some of them are alright, others even semi-capable of running non-hexway/bbsway. But in general, they win, and hold, so much because just like WoOm in their glory days: they play all day, every day.

From what I know , MATH makes a team once in a week. Is that all day everyday?

Krill · Aug 28, 2010, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Again, they are just guilds really good at what they do, which is play trashbuilds all day long. I played with them a couple of times before aswell, and they are really nice people aswell...

But rit spike, jaggedway and dent bbway were high quality builds. Thank god at least someone has made HA better.

vinoth · Aug 28, 2010, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Going to what most ppl say about nerfing ether prism, it won't do much to any build that uses ST rit, pnh and rit backline.(opinion from a guy that dont play this type of build much)
OoS,mend body, spirit transfer, WoW, WoS, kaolai, spirit, choice of stance(discipled stance prefered).

Dont think you would need spirit light since OoS gives more energy and ST rit ensures that theres at least 1 spirit up the whole time(4spirits from ST rit, 2-3from ranger 2on backline rits), therefore you can spirit transfer for guaranteed health. Discipled stance works just as well as ether prism and has a much shorter recharge.

nerfing ether prism will most certainly kill the current iway since they need spirit light to ensure healing since spirits are so easy to shutdown against iway(3from ranger and 2from backline).

I would prefer changing the casting time for displacement and union to be 5seconds. It would make interupting the spirits easier to manage as a whole and make it mucher harder to maintain all 3spirits in the field.

I completely agree with this. Nerfing prism is not the way to go. A friend of mine ran the BBway with a rit backline yesterday and its miles better than prism. Longer weapons are one thing and the guarentee that there will always be spirits enables the rits to get energy without saccing.

A nerf on prism will most likely lead to an alternate and more efficient back line and a further nerf the current version of iway which has less spirits to depend on. (I think Iway currently is underpowerd). The way to address the problem would be tune down brutal (perhaps increase the recharge a bit/ decrese + dmg a bit) another possible correction is that the ST has a longer recharge and spirits have a longer cast time/ energy requirement. Also IH at 15 secs recharge is quiet powerful. Perhaps give IH a 30 sec recast with a 5 sec casting time.

Missing HB · Aug 28, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

A nerf on prism will most likely lead to an alternate and more efficient back line and a further nerf the current version of iway which has less spirits to depend on. (I think Iway currently is underpowerd). The way to address the problem would be tune down brutal (perhaps increase the recharge a bit/ decrese + dmg a bit) another possible correction is that the ST has a longer recharge and spirits have a longer cast time/ energy requirement. Also IH at 15 secs recharge is quiet powerful. Perhaps give IH a 30 sec recast with a 5 sec casting time.

Actually , i'm almost sure people would still run bbway if brutal was nerfed , or even would replace rit by smoke/spike trapper if the build couldn't be used anymore. The only solution is to nerf rit weapons or change functionnality of rit healings. As i said , people would probably then run hexers with monks backline , but it would be for sure much less OP .

vinoth · Aug 28, 2010, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Actually , i'm almost sure people would still run bbway if brutal was nerfed , or even would replace rit by smoke/spike trapper if the build couldn't be used anymore. The only solution is to nerf rit weapons or change functionnality of rit healings. As i said , people would probably then run hexers with monks backline , but it would be for sure much less OP .

The idea was never to kill the build but to tune it down.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 28, 2010, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Why not kill the builds like that which don't require to have monks as backline? If you ask me bbway/iway/sway should be nerfed to death. Iway: nerf prisms, Bbway: nerf st and make falling lotus strike fail unless u have X in crit strikes, Sway: also nerf prisms.
Yes more people would run hexway then... but also many people would easy counter hexway just by bringing some kd war and 1-2 fire eles (if you think that doesn't counter hexway you're bad in this game) or even easier just have massive hex removal... so in time hexway would die for sure because many people would counter it.

Killed u man · Aug 28, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Because the backline doesn't respresent the build. You could run the IWAY backline (PnH, prisms) in balanced, and you can run any trashbuild with a Monk backline, given that you change the NR and Tranq for something similar. (A mesmer or smth)

Brutal needs to be maintable on 1 person, that's all they need to do for that skill. As for BB, the problem isn't backbreaker, because you could aswell use Hammerbash, or any other elite hammer attack. The problem is daggers + adrenaline and to a lesser extend the falling skills + KD's. Blades of steel is a skill I would like to see nerfed aswell. 180 Dmg from 1 attack with 8 recharge is just not smth I see fit in GW.

Elektraaa · Aug 28, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

You know guildwars is going crazy when an Sway'er, a rit spiker and an HB player are talking about game balance. Dent was referred to as having a good build. The number 1 on the ladder just wants cookies. And the three best ways to win are "luck", "botting" and "BBSway".

Need I say more?

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playi...in-part-1.html

Seriously though, if you're talking about specific players/guilds as a means to debate game balance, you're doing it wrong x]. Game mechanics, balance, etc, don't revolve around specific guilds. It's like arguing that the LG in quake is OP because of stermy. Oshi~ Balancing guild wars should be based on effort put in to play the build, DPS of the build, DPS when split, defense, etc etc. You do not need to quote specific guilds/people to look at figures.

It is also completely pointless player A stating that guild X is good, because player B might think guild X is bad anyway. Player B will then think that player A must be bad at the game to have came to said conclusion; thus, player B won't take player A seriously.

& MATH did play a lot.

Whether they do now, doesn't really matter. It's like saying: musician A had a lot of sales in the 1960's but not very many in the 2000's. Well, NO MUSICIANS sold much in the 2000's; I.E Not many people play a lot now.

diabiosx · Aug 28, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Nerfing builds to death is one of the worst things you can do in guild wars. You force players that love these builds to quit again. The word "lame builds" is just an elitist word, mainly from people that think the only honor build is balanced. Let me tell you something, aside from Ranger,Mesmer, and Prot in balanced every other role is just as easy to play as these "lame builds". Nerf some of the skills in these "WAY" builds so they can be easier to counter while still making it viable so you dont upset the majority of HA players.

and once again this Killed U Man doesn't know what he is talking about and needs to be discredited in this forum. You can not run pnh e/rt backline in balanced because you only have 2spirits to fuel your heals with. You can easily shutdown recovery life when there is no oath shotter/soul twist rit to worry about. You can not run monks in the WAY builds without completely changing the style of play. Currently there is no other skill that can compare to the power of NR/tranq or is similar to the function of these 2spirits.(maybe Order of Apostasy but its too expensive to play)

Elektraaa · Aug 28, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

No one needs to discredit "Killed U man/borat", his poor argument does it anyway.

I used to generally always play something "honourable". On the basis that I started off in HA and knew I'd progress to GVG. I believed it would help the transition more than rolling my face on the keyboard and then being told to play something I wasn't familiar with. Having said that, some of it is rather pointless. You either play to win, or you do not. There's nothing lame in using the most powerful build for you. It's like being in a fight. Oh, I am not going to use a gun. That's for weaklings, I am going to fight with a sword. "Super", the American said to the English man. Generally I believe that if played well, balanced was always more powerful than say, IWAY. However, for certain people, playing IWAY made sense. There is no evidence in it being "lame". Lame would be cheating. Using skills supplied to you by the game, is not cheating.

People can all look at guildwars with rose coloured glasses all they like but the bottom line is, guildwars is not structured great for competitive gaming. That is probably why it's never seen the light of day at competitive LAN's such as dreamhack, iseries, etc.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 28, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Maybe you're right there diabiosx but bbway is just too op and really doesn't require any thinking or any skill to play. It doesn't matter at all which target bbwars attack, it doesn't matter where rit uses spirits, ele healers got unlimited energy since it's so easy to manage it with pnh and rit as support... and some of enemy frontline has to camp both rit and ranger spirit so it's hard to do pressure against them. And I don't even wanna mention IH spirit op recharge time.
Anyway to fix this problem imo Anet should do: GvG + HA sealed = WIN

Elektraaa · Aug 28, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Maybe you're right there diabiosx but bbway is just too op and really doesn't require any thinking or any skill to play. It doesn't matter at all which target bbwars attack, it doesn't matter where rit uses spirits, ele healers got unlimited energy since it's so easy to manage it with pnh and rit as support... and some of enemy frontline has to camp both rit and ranger spirit so it's hard to do pressure against them. And I don't even wanna mention IH spirit op recharge time.
Anyway to fix this problem imo Anet should do: GvG + HA sealed = WIN

Does that matter to you, mister?

Missing HB · Aug 28, 2010, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Nerfing builds to death is one of the worst things you can do in guild wars. You force players that love these builds to quit again. The word "lame builds" is just an elitist word, mainly from people that think the only honor build is balanced. Let me tell you something, aside from Ranger,Mesmer, and Prot in balanced every other role is just as easy to play as these "lame builds". Nerf some of the skills in these "WAY" builds so they can be easier to counter while still making it viable so you dont upset the majority of HA players.

They forced players who loved Hero Battles and Team Arenas to quit though ... Also , i think we can easily find builds " ruined " by some updates ( i can think of iway war which is completly ridiculous compared to BB war , and some others..)

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 28, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektraaa

Does that matter to you, mister?

Yes I know I'm considered by many people as a "lame player" and I don't care...I ran all possible builds in GW and I'm still trying to run as many different builds as I can. And "lame player" like me saying bbway is op just proves the point it needs nerf NOW. Yes I farmed a lot with Sway but it was weak build and very easy to counter and steamrolled in 1 min if played right.. with bbway that's impossible. Even if you got "pro" team it will take you at least 5 min to beat bbway which is just annoying.

Elektraaa · Aug 28, 2010, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Yes I know I'm considered by many people as a "lame player" and I don't care...I ran all possible builds in GW and I'm still trying to run as many different builds as I can. And "lame player" like me saying bbway is op just proves the point it needs nerf NOW. Yes I farmed a lot with Sway but it was weak build and very easy to counter and steamrolled in 1 min if played right.. with bbway that's impossible. Even if you got "pro" team it will take you at least 5 min to beat bbway which is just annoying.

Why not just play bbway then? Like you said, most think you're lame anyway.

If you have two EXACTLY the same, low skilled teams vs each other in the past. One playing sway, one playing balanced - I think sway would have won. Obviously if one counters it correctly, it can be beaten, but my argument here is based on two, equally, low skilled teams putting in the same effort. Anyway, I wasn't calling you a lamer. I find you hilarious, not lame.

What are the skillbars of BBway? I quit HA years ago, and quit GW for quite a while too. Having got rid of most of my accounts. So I don't know what current skillbars are. I'm excited to play guild wars 2 though

. I intend on playing GW a bit before it releases.

Killed u man · Aug 28, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

So wait, you come here arguing about game balance, when you haven't even played the game for 2 years, and I should be "descredited (?!) from these forums.

I gues you really can't argue with retards.

@Fierce,

My point was that you could run any backline in any build, with reasonble success. (Again you failed to comprehend my post, as do many other people on these forums. I gues skill in game is proportionality scaled to intelligence in real life)
Rezz Anna said: "Let's nerf all builds with prism backlines" to which I replied it being a bad thing, cuz the backline does not represent the true nature of the build. IWAY for example uses the exact same backline, and can hardly be concidered a "to nerf"-build.

And I also find it funny you fail to comprehend how the only build you ever played works; balanced. Obviously, fire ele, hammer, even reg axe, aswell as every other build requires a reasonably low amount of skill to be ran correctly, as does every bar in Guild Wars. (Because despite what some people like you to believe, Guild Wars is an easy game to play) It's not the individual bar that matters, it's the coordination.

A BBwarrior can go in and do his own thing. He has to worry about his bar, his combo and he will score kills if he executes his bar correctly if his team members do the same.

A hexway mesmer/necro/sin can go in and do his own thing. He has to faceroll over his keyboard, and will play his bar at maximum effiecency.

A Fire Ele, or any other profession in balanced aside from the backline, however, can not just go in, and do his own thing. A Fire Ele throwing nukes on random places, and people will run out. A mesmer shattering random targets is far below-par damage (15 energy for 94 damage, lolwut?). An axe warrior landing his DW and follow up alone will never get kills (Unless the target was at 50% HP to begin with). They have to coordinate in order to get kills, and that's where balanced, and even spike builds, differentiate from all these shitways. They require a basic amount of coordination, as opposed to no coordination whatsoever.

And as long as this "no-coordination"ways are overpowering builds which do require coordination, nerfs are needed. (Nerf =/= nerfing into the ground Anet style) That's why BBsway, hexway and some other individual builds/skills need to get toned down untill a balanced of the same, or even lower, skill level can beat them.

diabiosx · Aug 28, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

@Fierce,

My point was that you could run any backline in any build, with reasonble success. (Again you failed to comprehend my post, as do many other people on these forums. I gues skill in game is proportionality scaled to intelligence in real life)
Rezz Anna said: "Let's nerf all builds with prism backlines" to which I replied it being a bad thing, cuz the backline does not represent the true nature of the build. IWAY for example uses the exact same backline, and can hardly be concidered a "to nerf"-build.
.

reasonable sucess is the keyword here thanks for saying I am right in your own way:-)

"You can not run pnh e/rt backline in balanced because you only have 2spirits to fuel your heals with. You can easily shutdown recovery life when there is no oath shotter/soul twist rit to worry about. You can not run monks in the WAY builds without completely changing the style of play. Currently there is no other skill that can compare to the power of NR/tranq or is similar to the function of these 2spirits.(maybe Order of Apostasy but its too expensive to play) "

Once again you fail to defend yourself, u add some flame saying how stupid people are(when in reality you are just exerting your feelings toward yourself on these people) and nickpicked my other sentence to make yourself credible(down below)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

And I also find it funny you fail to comprehend how the only build you ever played works; balanced. Obviously, fire ele, hammer, even reg axe, aswell as every other build requires a reasonably low amount of skill to be ran correctly, as does every bar in Guild Wars. (Because despite what some people like you to believe, Guild Wars is an easy game to play) It's not the individual bar that matters, it's the coordination.

A BBwarrior can go in and do his own thing. He has to worry about his bar, his combo and he will score kills if he executes his bar correctly if his team members do the same.

A hexway mesmer/necro/sin can go in and do his own thing. He has to faceroll over his keyboard, and will play his bar at maximum effiecency.

A Fire Ele, or any other profession in balanced aside from the backline, however, can not just go in, and do his own thing. A Fire Ele throwing nukes on random places, and people will run out. A mesmer shattering random targets is far below-par damage (15 energy for 94 damage, lolwut?). An axe warrior landing his DW and follow up alone will never get kills (Unless the target was at 50% HP to begin with). They have to coordinate in order to get kills, and that's where balanced, and even spike builds, differentiate from all these shitways. They require a basic amount of coordination, as opposed to no coordination whatsoever.

And as long as this "no-coordination"ways are overpowering builds which do require coordination, nerfs are needed. (Nerf =/= nerfing into the ground Anet style) That's why BBsway, hexway and some other individual builds/skills need to get toned down untill a balanced of the same, or even lower, skill level can beat them.

Thank for elaborating on my sentence

"Let me tell you something, aside from Ranger,Mesmer, and Prot in balanced every other role is just as easy to play as these "lame builds"."
So saying what I said in your own word with added bullshit makes me have no knowledge of balanced, and make your correct too.. Hmm interesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektraaa

No one needs to discredit "Killed U man/borat", his poor argument does it anyway.

Point proven :-)
To SUMMARIZE:
Killed U Man get the facts straight dont be a hater and nickpick irrevelent things to make yourself credible. you dont know anything about this game period. please dont spread false information and then resaying subjects I said to make yourself correct.

Lets do an analogy of Killed U Man's arguments:
President Bush is a retard, I think every1 should follow what Gods says, Everyone(not some but every1!), can make a shit ton of money playing poker online, and oh by the way the sky is blue and heidi klum has a penis.

Elektraaa · Aug 28, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

So wait, you come here arguing about game balance, when you haven't even played the game for 2 years, and I should be "descredited (?!) from these forums.

I'm not sure what's more ironic. A rit spiker implying I should not argue about game balance, or it messing up a quote and then using the word "retard". Your quote fails on multiple levels; One: you failed the spelling - it was a copy paste job, how could you get that wrong? Two: The person who requested you be "discredited" was not I, yet you directed that part of your post towards me (miscommunication?). Three: Only one quotation mark. Regardless, I merely stated the obvious: you do not need to be discredited; your posts do a grand job of that on their own (read the aforementioned).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I gues you really can't argue with retards.

Which is why I haven't really tried. It would be pointless to argue about game balance with you. You're too personal and at the end of it all, I'll see you in the same light as I do now.

Cutting, no?

FYI: I am probably going to be playing the game a little bit, thus I consider my presence just fine. My post was merely pointing out that your way of debating is flawed. Also, throwing words around like "retard" and such just shows you as butt-hurt.

Please don't flame me: you will end up looking like a fool.

My personal opinion regarding game balance revolves around the fact that I like fast gameplay. If skill A is superior to skills B, C and D. I generally do not agree with nerfing skill A. I'd rather see the inferior skills, B, C and D, buffed. Providing that they aren't all defense skills obviously. It would make more sense to me to see offensive skills used in balanced (but not used in lame builds) buffed. The problem with buffing skills is that one runs the risk of allowing the creation of an over powered-spike build; thus it is easier to nerf something in the knowledge that you haven't increased the chance of game imbalance. With that said, I have empathy towards the path GW has taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

(Because despite what some people like you to believe, Guild Wars is an easy game to play)

Broad statement... Depends how you play it and what you're aware of. There are lots of things that can be done in game which top players probably do not do. They may still win and therefore you can argue it is not needed, but to say "easy game to play", means nothing really. What game is difficult to play? You could learn to count the energy of all 8 opponents rather than just a couple. It's not really needed, but it's essentially playing the game. Ultimately, games are as easy as the opponent.