Curse

Sirius Bsns · Aug 23, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Codex is an arena for the untalented. It requires burning time assembling a team to even start, and in a dead game, it's just not worth the hassle. It might be for eight guild members to sync in and "rig" wins for each other [especially during dead hours], but other than that it's a dead arena altogether. HB was all about /roll 100's and/or exploiting shadowstepping/IMS to win. Fighting would be totally negated by solely abusing this aspect of HBing. TA was all about either W/R/N/Mo builds, Shove spikes, or Gimmicks. If you look at it from a certain point, the players are the ones destroying the game through abuse more than anything else.

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Every game gets destroyed by people looking to farm rather than to play. That's just how the human mind works, it's not something specific to Guild Wars or even games for that matter.

However, there are no measures being taken to prevent people from abusing these formats.

In TA, adding more than one-dimensional maps would've done a large deal of good for the format. (HB Cap maps) It would've automaticly rendered most of the spikes useless, or atleast alot harder to play.
Basic skill balance (Insidious still prooves to be a keyskill in both HB, TA and currently codex of getting abused) would've solved just about every other issue.

In HB, the issue was more underlying in the fact that Hero AI is shit, and controlling heroes is even more shit. (Half the time, they don't listen or even do other things than ordered) This in it's turn made sins, aswell as just about every other solo-spiker incredibly OP because heroes would be too stupid to use most of the skills on their bar. The fact that when out of range you couldn't even order them to use skills proporly (You couldn't target for them anymore) made this even worse.
Monks in their turn had the advantage that non-Monks always required atleast 2 defensive heroes (because monk heroes are so shit), and thus could easily stay alive given the right counter builds. Shadowsteps aswell Meltways/Recall ways were a result of this.

In Codex, there is the problem that it simply isn't worth playing the format. Either a ladder or AT's need to be added to lure and keep players in the format. Even if solely for farming AT's (like GvG nowadays)... Secondly, the consecutive system needs to change a bit so that when the Codex resets, you can keep your consecutives. (The system now makes it so that entering at +-2/3 hours before the change is pointless) Then monks should always have the skills Remove Hex and Holy Veil available. Lastly, some HB maps should be introduced so that people can't run straight-up 4v4 kill builds. (Like the current barbs train or whatever)

Otello · Aug 25, 2010, 12:43 PM // 12:43

The best idea to fix the codex is to keep the codex rules and eliminate the random skill pool. One of the biggest problem of codex is that the matches can be very boring. Run in circle after a monk because you do not have kd, or increase velocity is absurd. The impossibility sometimes to heal, or to prevent damage, or the impossibility of killing because, randomly, the monk has a overpowered build. This is the reason because people left the arena. The idea is good, but poorly implemented.
Go back to the TA format keeping the name of codex arena.
Only one character for profession (get rid of shovespike ,MB spike and RTL), only the elite of your primary allowed, and some skill restriction (VoR, plague sending, some overpowered hexes)...
solve each single problem with skill balancing, or skill restriction. I think this can work better

Master Ketsu · Aug 28, 2010, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

In TA, adding more than one-dimensional maps would've done a large deal of good for the format. (HB Cap maps) It would've automaticly rendered most of the spikes useless, or atleast alot harder to play.

They tried that. It was complete and utter shit.

Killed u man · Aug 28, 2010, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

They tried that. It was complete and utter shit.

There was 3 teams orso playing the format, and skill balance at that time was still utter shit.

The maps worked in HB, they work in Costume Brawl, and I think it's safe to say they work. They make sure people can't run straight-up 4v4 builds (like hexway or GOTH spike), and if they do, only bad people will loose to it.

Missing HB · Aug 28, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Btw , why didn't they make costume brawl arena instead of Codex? If you just read at codex description in its update preview , that's exactly what costume brawl is ..

Draikin · Aug 28, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

In HB, the issue was more underlying in the fact that Hero AI is shit, and controlling heroes is even more shit. (Half the time, they don't listen or even do other things than ordered) This in it's turn made sins, aswell as just about every other solo-spiker incredibly OP because heroes would be too stupid to use most of the skills on their bar. The fact that when out of range you couldn't even order them to use skills proporly (You couldn't target for them anymore) made this even worse.
Monks in their turn had the advantage that non-Monks always required atleast 2 defensive heroes (because monk heroes are so shit), and thus could easily stay alive given the right counter builds. Shadowsteps aswell Meltways/Recall ways were a result of this.

These were never the real issues. Especially your conclusion about shadowsteps is totally wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The maps worked in HB

No they didn't. The maps and even more importantly the objectives were at the root of most of the problems with the format. HB was a format that heavily favored split tactics. That's why assassins were that good in the format, they were practically designed for it, it had nothing to do with heroes being unable to use skills. It's also why shadowsteps were such a powerful tool, since they got you across the map way faster than any speedboosts could. Again that had nothing to do with "non-monks requiring at least 2 defensive heroes". With objectives rewarding players to play defensively and camp shrines, it's only natural people would use those skills. Sure the maps would work for ruining straight-up 4v4 kill builds, but that doesn't change the fact that they were totally broken in HB.

Killed u man · Aug 28, 2010, 08:24 PM // 20:24

If it was about the splitting, Rangers would've seen a far greater deal of play, as opposed to sins...

The splitting is a secondary advantage sins have, the primary being that they can instagib unsuspecting, defenceless heroes, something which rangers couldn't. And they reason they could, is, again, because of the terrible AI.

You could throw blinds, blocks, heals and prots on a heroes bar, but we would not use any of those if a sin jumped, or was about to jump to him. You had to micro every single skill. On top of that, you had to make sure you could select that hero aswell, because otherwise he could try and use it in your selected target (if an ally) or completely glitch up (if enemy).

I worded it wrong in saying that shadowsteps were the result of "it". What I meant was that shadowsteps were the combined result of crappy hero AI (most heroes don't blind, prot or avoid damage untill a melee character comes close.) A shadowstep would completely bypass this, as you would be "out of danger zone" on one second, and beasting the hero the next. Now, obviously, sins would still be strong in these maps, but that, in my opinion, isn't a bad thing, because Codex is mostly decided on skills anyways. If the sin skills are shit, they won't be used regardless, if they aren't they will get used, but not abused as you can only have 1 sin per team. (You will still have to fill up other slots with random shit)

If anything, these HB maps combined with random skills would guarantee that the best team simply wins. You can focus on capping and linebacking, you can go for kills, you can 4v4 center camp (and try and keep up with kills as your opponent should have 1 extra pip), or you can just do brainless chicken way.

A balanced team simply gets the most benefit from adding this map, because any "full split team" (as you claimed) would simply get rolled on the current maps. Remember, I suggested that these should be added on top of the current existing maps. All this does is add an extra dimension to the format which disfavors 4v4 and brainless play, and favors balanced (split) and coordinated play.

Insta-gib does recieve a small buff this way, but if since have such a combo available, it would've gotten abused anyways, regardless of the HB maps were around or not...

Corporeal Ghost · Sep 05, 2010, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

They tried that. It was complete and utter shit.

That format was amazing.

On the original topic, I'm of the opinion that they should probably just fix the game mechanics (armor, skill balance, and the other intangibles) before worrying about which of the fringe gametypes is most popular. Whether or not their timetables for changing things are realistic or lazy, they're what we've got, and if it takes six months to tweak a few numbers of Anthem of Envy, I can't even imagine what creating a new game type would take. I'm not even sure I want to know how much time it would absorb to re-implement a pre-existing gametype.