Curse

galactic · Nov 05, 2010, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Heroes were removed from PvP over a year ago because gwen was could constantly get 4 rupts on her tease. Heroes were replaced with henchmen with new bars. These henchmen are never used outside of randomways because they cant use their bars properly. Great examples of this are Nuno (rit hench), and Ghavin. Nuno didn't know when to use her spike skill and Ghavin doesn't know how to use his snare. The three warrior henchmen in HA are also stupid because they cant call spikes on vent. There are many more examples of henchmen bar stupidity. (MHs, more snares, more spike skills) Also, in this e-denial heavy meta, hero healers fail because they cant hide energy in a low set.

So heres a quick and easy fix that will breath life back into HA. Make the henchmen as microable as heroes. Which means skill micro, aggressive/gaurd/passive, and individual flagging just like heros. Also, fix the bars on the henchmen with snares and command skills and replace them with something that actually makes sense.

If this is too much to ask for, then at least make Nuno SC, and remove snares/MH/Other spike skills from the henchmen. Seriously, some of the most retarded builds got accepted.

While this will probably not help high rank teams, but it will help lower rank teams get mid-level healers/full partys. This will help the new influx of PvE people trying to get their 3 HoM points

Bandwagon · Nov 05, 2010, 03:42 AM // 03:42

1. What part of Pvp (Player vs PLAYER) do you not understand?

2. The henchies are made so that fledgling guilds can start GvGing/ HAing immediately, the henchmen are there to effectively punish you for not bringing a human player however it is better than not being able to play at all, do you not agree?

3. This will by no means breath life into GvG or HA, removing gimmick team comps, adding additional rewards and advertising these changes will go further than simply improving the AI that was made to allow players to PLAY, not play effectively

4. Your change will do nothing for the vast (lol) majority of PvPers in the end, all it will do is lower the gap between a henchie and a human, the human is still superior and always will be, so why bother from the start? It should be in the prospective PvP team's interest to get more human players, not stick with henchies.

5. See Point 1, just for emphasis.

Missing HB · Nov 05, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

1. What part of Pvp (Player vs PLAYER) do you not understand?

2. The henchies are made so that fledgling guilds can start GvGing/ HAing immediately, the henchmen are there to effectively punish you for not bringing a human player however it is better than not being able to play at all, do you not agree?

3. This will by no means breath life into GvG or HA, removing gimmick team comps, adding additional rewards and advertising these changes will go further than simply improving the AI that was made to allow players to PLAY, not play effectively

4. Your change will do nothing for the vast (lol) majority of PvPers in the end, all it will do is lower the gap between a henchie and a human, the human is still superior and always will be, so why bother from the start? It should be in the prospective PvP team's interest to get more human players, not stick with henchies.

5. See Point 1, just for emphasis.

Once again , typical example of someone addicted to PvE

1-5) I hope you're kidding with your lame excuse. I could come along with many other points about that then ( i.e zaishen title considered PvP , Skills not considered PvP and more .. )

2-3-4) Some people know how to micro and control heroes ( unfortunately , 2/3 of players didn't ever bother to do it and just say " garrggll heroes are dumb , nerf " ). Anyone who knew how to control heroes knows that they would be a lot more efficient with those than with humans ( + you consider you remove the time wasted to find players , etc...)

bungusmaximus · Nov 05, 2010, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Instead of a hench people might wanna consider taking a person < r12 maybe? I always chuckle when I see peope advertise for r12+ in a dead arena. Then they're surprised that noone joins lol. Heroes/hench aren't the problem here.

Bandwagon · Nov 06, 2010, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Once again , typical example of someone addicted to PvE

Why yes dear sir/ma'am I do PvE, I gave up on PvP entirely when the HoM calc was announced. Even so, try not to be a subjective tool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

1-5) I hope you're kidding with your lame excuse. I could come along with many other points about that then ( i.e zaishen title considered PvP , Skills not considered PvP and more .. )

Vague much? Try posting a real argument to my points, I am sure addicted PvPers can understand my frame of reference. Also WTF does Z title and PvP/PvE splits have to do with Player VS Player content where Players face off against players????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

2-3-4) Some people know how to micro and control heroes ( unfortunately , 2/3 of players didn't ever bother to do it and just say " garrggll heroes are dumb , nerf " ). Anyone who knew how to control heroes knows that they would be a lot more efficient with those than with humans ( + you consider you remove the time wasted to find players , etc...)

If Arena Net didn't care about hero micro in PvP, they would not have introduced the henchie bars to begin with.

I speak as a PvPer from many different games involving teamwork that have AI components (ex: computer players in FPS / RTS) when I say that it is better for the AI to be second medal players as a pose to legitimate options for teammates. In GW, you will never improve the AI to the point where it will be competitive, so why even bother? they do their job decently at the moment (as a pose to lets say, having NO character)

Just for you, I'll post my reasonings for each of my points.

Quote:

1. What part of Pvp (Player vs PLAYER) do you not understand?

henchmen are AI, Players are players, PvP should emphasize player vs player, AI can be added as an option but by no means should they be a competitive choice to a real player, why fix what isn't broken?

Quote:

2. The henchies are made so that fledgling guilds can start GvGing/ HAing immediately, the henchmen are there to effectively punish you for not bringing a human player however it is better than not being able to play at all, do you not agree?

AI henchmen have a purpose, and it is to do what point 2 stated. They however have limitations (nevermind the fact that they follow one player and have absolutely no idea of how to position).

Quote:

3. This will by no means breath life into GvG or HA, removing gimmick team comps, adding additional rewards and advertising these changes will go further than simply improving the AI that was made to allow players to PLAY, not play effectively

PvP relative to PvE offers fewer rewards for time spent (besides the enjoyment derived from playing PvP), if A-net wanted to promote PvP, they probably would not improve henchie functionality, they would probably add new features, scoring mechanics, new rewards and/or update skills that seem to be out of control (the skills that subjectively need addressing are not the issue here).

Quote:

4. Your change will do nothing for the vast (lol) majority of PvPers in the end, all it will do is lower the gap between a henchie and a human, the human is still superior and always will be, so why bother from the start? It should be in the prospective PvP team's interest to get more human players, not stick with henchies.

Human players are better, no matter how you slice it. People who want to up their game will find human players anyway, henchmen are a poor man's option when there is just no way to field a full group of people, be happy the option exists.

Quote:

5. See Point 1, just for emphasis.

That was a snide remark, in retrospect I was better off not including it.