Curse

Jaran Cell · Aug 13, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Frenzy is a bad skill for inexperienced people. It's the same way as a Ferrari is a bad vehicle for a 5 year old.
The skill is great but the person in question will not be able to handle it.

Bobby2 · Aug 13, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Lexar, are you saying there are no 'bad' skills? Because that's simply not true. I understand that people feel hesitant to let a newcomer run Frenzy but it is of no relevance; Flail takes that spot on a hammer bar. Considering the KD potential of a Dev hammer build there are no downsides to it, which would make it strictly better than TStance... in my opinion.

Still, on Frenzy: I'd rather have a newcomer run it, learn to use it through trial and error, than stick TStance (or rather, BoA) on his bar and never see him improve.

God_Hand · Aug 13, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

OK, I hereby revoke all my previous thoughts put into this thread.

My "Final Thoughts":

Kurzicks SUCK! Two days ago, I was in Grenz looking for a group. I advertise as "Dev Hammer LFG" and an Ele invites me. Turns out the party was made of THREE eles. One was an overkill capper, one had direct damage skills, and the other never pinged.

Problems:

1) No monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk, no monk. This is the biggie right here.
2) The capper did not need 4-5 skills for capping NPC's
3) Only one of them (the guy with direct damage skills) looked like he'd stand a decent chance if targeted and was forced to fight his way out. The last guy I am uncertain about.
4) They kicked me after I told them they wouldn't stand a rats ass if they were targeted by the Luxons. Some excuses they gave:
4a) It wouldn't happen, because AB is about capping, not fighting the Luxons
4b) Even if they were targeted, they could just run away and cap some other shrine.
4c) Etc, etc, etc.

In other words: Kurzicks SUCK! I am personally shocked at how generally BAD the Kurz are. I lost a match somewhere around 50-500 yesterday IN KURZICK TERRITORY. This wasn't Saltspray, this wasn't whatever the hell the Luxon places are called, this was GRENZ for God's sake.

We lost because people can not get it in their heads that KILLING THE OTHER TEAM MATTERS. It's 20, ofttimes more like 30-40 seconds that those players that just died are doing absolutely nothing to help their team out.

We lost because of 2-3 leechers. Our squad was reduced to three, and our other warrior and monk decided to charge (using the Elite Shout Charge ironically) into a group of 8+ enemies who were mobbing the res shrine. Needless to say, they were both killed instantly and proceeded to accomplish basically nothing the entire rest of the game.

We lost because WE JUST LET THE LUXONS WALTZ INTO OUR BACKLINE AND SIT RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR SPAWN AFTER CAPPING THE THREE POINTS IN FRONT OF IT. I STILL DO NOT HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHY CERTAIN GROUPS (probably dedicated cappers now that I think about it) LET ENEMIES WALK RIGHT PAST THEM TO GO DECIMATE SHRINES THEY JUST CAPTURED FIVE SECONDS AGO. The worst is when you've just captured a shrine with your 4-man, and the leader sees approaching enemies and decides to go cap another shrine instead of trying to wipe the 4-man coming at you. It's especially absurd considering that because you hold that shrine, you've got a numerical advantage against the enemy, albeit in the form of NPC's.

The whole Kurzick side just BLOWS, typically without exception. The only people I know of who play even HALFWAY decent are Me, my Guildies, and the three guys with me in that other photo that I took down out of spite. Other than that, I don't think I have EVER remembered someone because of their amazing performance, unless of course it was amazingly bad.

As for WHY the Kurz suck so bad? It's like asking why time exists, or people, or the universe. It just DOES, and the Kurz just DO.

Shrimz · Aug 13, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

^Everyone sucks on Kurzick side? Get over yourself.

It's just that most groups consist of 4 random people without a healer and run around aimlessly.

GuLLinda · Aug 13, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Funny thing is that Kurzicks still say "lol lux mobbing" when we have all flags... also weird i never got answer for my question that goes like this "what can we do when we have all flags?"

Xenomortis · Aug 13, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

because AB is about capping, not fighting the Luxons

This mentality is one I really do not understand. It's one held by a lot of Luxons too.

I just don't get how they can possibly think that's the best way to win AB. Capping shrines is good, yes, but you need to hold the useful shrines and use them to take the enemy down before you move on to cap the shrine they just left.

Lexar · Aug 13, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I'm not really saying there are no bad skills, not necessarily. I'm saying that what we think of skills in terms of good and bad are based on our opinions of it, there is no real way to measure how good they are for everyone, dmg output for example is only 1 factor of many in a match, and not even a very important one. Especially in AB, being able to run faster is much more important than increasing your attack speed.

And as a result of that, I also believe that it's (a little) misplaced to presume to have the authority to tell others which skills to use. Let alone judge them for it.

dorin · Aug 13, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

For the first time in my AB history , last night all kurzicks resigned.
We had a team who resigned first just because their warrior got dc probably.( idk why so long as an ele, mes and monk can still cap).
When score was like 300-100 for us, 2 or 3 kurzicks left , then the rest gradually resigned even they knew that we`re just 2 teams.

Bobby2 · Aug 13, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

I'm saying that what we think of skills in terms of good and bad are based on our opinions of it, there is no real way to measure how good they are for everyone

Opinions on a skill are formed by its potential and common experience. I feel safe saying TStance is bad, given the alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

dmg output for example is only 1 factor of many in a match, and not even a very important one. Especially in AB, being able to run faster is much more important than increasing your attack speed.

Damage output is very important for any warrior, hence no good one would ever go in without an IAS. That said IAS/IMS are not mutually exclusive (yay).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

And as a result of that, I also believe that it's (a little) misplaced to presume to have the authority to tell others which skills to use. Let alone judge them for it.

trans: 'Don't hurt his feelings'? One's build is (or should be) judged every time he's accepted into a party, any alterations from a 'standard' bar expected to be backed up with substantial arguments. But you're right, no one has the authority to tell him what skills to use - but they all have the right to kick him

dorin · Aug 13, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

But you're right, no one has the authority to tell him what skills to use - but they all have the right to kick him

Amen to that

Triadninja · Aug 13, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by asstaa

Amen to that

Back on topic of this 15 page trainwreck...

I too feel that kurzick has been doing badly lately, I don't know why. Alot of the time, I see necromancers with an ARMY of undead, going from point to point destroying the NPCS and capping the points, then the rest of the groups either ball up and go for the rez shrines to block off the kurz, or they do the "Korean" and group up and cap RIGHT BEHIND the kurzic groups, while some MM's are off on the side capping any stray control points.

I used to be able to hold my head up high as a kurzick, now my poor ele can't even get a single spell in because the rest of the group is off being "Koreaned."

Jaran Cell · Aug 13, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

My theory:

Kurzick used to be a faster track to max. This resulted in the best kurzick AB players switching to the luxon faction since it felt like a waste of time donating into a maxed track.

For a period of time the luxon side had a slighly higher amount of good AB players wich resulted in slighly more wins.
This in turn resulted in a general thought among decent AB players that you had a better win/lose ratio if you played on the luxon side.

Just about everyone enjoy winning more than they do losing. Good players who played AB for the fun of it started to chose Luxon over Kurzick.
This of course led to the small difference in skill level between the general players of the two factions to steadily grow.

Atm we are at the point that both the factions commonly agree that Luxons win more and generally are more organized. Players who like to AB don't change from Luxon to Kurzick becouse it's just frustrating to play for the weaker side.
Good Kurzick players keep changing to Luxon and good Luxon players stays where they are.

Luxons are getting a steady stream of maxed out kurzick players and decent PvP:ers.
Kurzicks are getting a steady stream of people who like the kurzick areas, armor and so on.
(ofc both sides also have a steady stream of newbies since it's low lvl pvp)

Is it so strange that Luxons win more?

glacialphoenix · Aug 13, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

4) They kicked me after I told them they wouldn't stand a rats ass if they were targeted by the Luxons. Some excuses they gave:
4a) It wouldn't happen, because AB is about capping, not fighting the Luxons
4b) Even if they were targeted, they could just run away and cap some other shrine.
4c) Etc, etc, etc.

ARGH.

See, I play with two guildies. When we look for a last person to fill in the slot, that's grounds for kicking. Oh, you're going to run away because you saw the enemy coming and you can't do anything except kill NPCs? Brilliant, you won't be staying with the team then. Bye!

(Also, speaking of MMs: why the heck do some of them call themselves 'invinci' MMs when one enchan removal could kill them? ESPECIALLY the ones with Verata's Aura.)

God_Hand · Aug 14, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

trans: 'Don't hurt his feelings'?

Trust me when I say that if anyone has his/her feelings hurt by being told that one skill they use in Guild Wars is "bad", they seriously need to reevaluate their life. I think maybe it could have been better worded as: "Translation: Don't judge his build?", it even seems like that would go better with what you say following the statement.

On that subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

One's build is (or should be) judged every time he's accepted into a party, any alterations from a 'standard' bar expected to be backed up with substantial arguments.

Because:

A) I totally want to run a build that I'm not comfortable using (I cannot STAND trying to work with Flail, even on a KD, and I don't even know why).

and

B) I totally want to have to argue with 3 other people whenever I run a build that I'm more comfortable using.

and

C) AB is serious RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

But you're right, no one has the authority to tell him what skills to use - but they all have the right to kick him

Nope, only one person has got that right at any one moment in time; life is good.

tmakinen · Aug 14, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaran Cell

My theory

I think that this is the most concise explanation given so far, so /agree.

Now the question should be, is there anything that can be done to compensate for this lack of balance?

Reverend Dr · Aug 14, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

B) I totally want to have to argue with 3 other people whenever I run a build that I'm more comfortable using.

serious post: Run death's charge and return on the dev hammer bar. You'll never have to worry about being in flail.

Judge Nl · Aug 14, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by asstaa

For the first time in my AB history , last night all kurzicks resigned.
We had a team who resigned first just because their warrior got dc probably.( idk why so long as an ele, mes and monk can still cap).
When score was like 300-100 for us, 2 or 3 kurzicks left , then the rest gradually resigned even they knew that we`re just 2 teams.

I remember that one. We did have only 2 teams, but those were heavy teams.

After the last one resigned we didn't even get full points for the win

The result was epic though, since we were missing a team & because enemies left or resigned. (Didn't wipe teamnames because i'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind)

Quote:

Funny thing is that Kurzicks still say "lol lux mobbing" when we have all flags... also weird i never got answer for my question that goes like this "what can we do when we have all flags?"

We always go berserk when we see a blue flag on the minimap

GuLLinda · Aug 14, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Conclusion of this thread, Kurzick are shit.

Disagree?, let's continue the pointless arguing

Lux Aeterna · Aug 14, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

On that subject:

A) I totally want to run a build that I'm not comfortable using (I cannot STAND trying to work with Flail, even on a KD, and I don't even know why).

and

B) I totally want to have to argue with 3 other people whenever I run a build that I'm more comfortable using.

and

C) AB is serious RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing business.

Nope, only one person has got that right at any one moment in time; life is good.

Personally, the only response my build ever gets is "great!" or "finally someone good!". Occasionally people take issue with frenzy or primal rage, but I just end up kicking them because they're wrong.

Look -- I'm most comfortable running what's best, I like to run what's best, and winning is simply more fun than "playing for fun."

I'm also pro with flail.

Bobby2 · Aug 14, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

I don't feel like improving

Okay.

/12chars