Curse

superraptors · Nov 17, 2010, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloeveryone

imo, if pvp-er is given a special title such as "i got tiga emote" in gw2 for recognition, based on the obnoxious culture of pvp-er in gw, it would render gw2 empty without players within 5 months. i guess Anet knows how gw1 pvper are, from a business point of view, no way they are going to let those little self-disillusioned group destroy the game they tried so hard to build

just my thoughts, not bashing the pvper...

i think ur jealous, if anything it will give people motivation to play pvp and make it more active if better awards are given out for higher ranks

Essence Snow · Nov 17, 2010, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Dependent on how the PvP grouping is designed in GW2 a PvP carry over title could be a bad idea. If it is anything like GW1 (which I hope it will not), a carry over title would...(and most all know it would) result in either have "title" or "gtfo".

I'm not quite in agreement that PvP titls were not meant to be maxed. If that were the case, then what's the point of having a max? Would it not stand to reason that if they were not meant to be maxed they would have no max?

superraptors · Nov 17, 2010, 06:59 AM // 06:59

descrimination is the only way to keep bad players with even more bad players seperated

*lemming* · Nov 17, 2010, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm not quite in agreement that PvP titls were not meant to be maxed. If that were the case, then what's the point of having a max? Would it not stand to reason that if they were not meant to be maxed they would have no max?

They definitely weren't. Only four people ever have maxed Hero, and even those exploiting have never come even remotely close to maxing Champion, Gladiator, Commander, and Codex.

Missing HB · Nov 17, 2010, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Yet 4/5 of those titles rely on teammates , and that's reason why many players didn't bother doing PvP in my opinion..( considering many would PvP only for the title)

Ensign · Nov 17, 2010, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

should have made it 25 reward points for PvE ad 25 reward points for PvP. Not 47 for PvE and 3 for PvP. Dumb PvE design team

It's smart design; the PvP community largely does not care about the HoM, and the PvE community would have had an enormous group cry-athalon if they couldn't get 50/50 without PvP.

The whole Zaishen-title-is-PvP to meet the requirement was part of this; the PvE players get to buy their PvP title for their HoM, and the PvP community gets to see a spike in key prices to let them buy everything else they might want.

As for rewards I would like to see, it'd be nice if Eternal Champion / Eternal Hero / Eternal Gladiator carried over to GW2 the way GWAMM does. All of those titles are probably equally difficult to get.

(Yes, the PvP titles were more or less farmed by *way teams during double point weekends; the PvE titles were farmed with farming builds. Same difference).

I also think it would be really awesome if I could spend reward points / ZCoins to get PvP-equipment onto my PvE characters. Some of those skins cannot be acquired any other way!

gremlin · Nov 17, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Thanks everyone for enlightening me about pvp.
Seems there are some very high prestige pvp titles that you have to be darn good to get and a load that you can buy, much like pve really.

hom isn't perfect but its pretty good so far as I am concerned, I got as far as the everlasting torch reward and I hope that proves really useful in some areas of gw2.

good luck in getting what you want from this thread

drkn · Nov 17, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Dependent on how the PvP grouping is designed in GW2 a PvP carry over title could be a bad idea. If it is anything like GW1 (which I hope it will not), a carry over title would...(and most all know it would) result in either have "title" or "gtfo".

As far as ANet shared some insight on GW2's PvP, there are going to be only two formats: GvG and WvW.

GvG - 5v5, organised. No split for PvP/PvE characters - you just get your character XYZ to the 'GvG place' (we don't know if the teams are going to be formed in the guild, some kind of arena or special instanced zone) and, suddenly, that character has access to all skills & gets level and equipment autobalanced out with other players. It has also been confirmed that there are going to be PvP and PvE versions of skills - you get PvP skill pack unlocked by default when entering 'GvG mode', no need to grind Balth for unlocks.
WvW - no real limit of players, open world PvPvE in the Mists. Your character isn't scaled at all - you hop into WvW with your lvl 12 necro and you keep your level, equipment and skills you got from PvE. Server vs server - sieges, caravans, triggered events, relics, stuff.

Based on that, only Champion could be carried over to GW2. But since GvG there and here is going to be vastly different, having rank discrimination in GW2 since the very beginning is a terrible idea - even maxed Champion from GW1 may mean shit when compared to GW2's format, mechanics and gameplay.
The only way to carry the titles over would be to somehow scale PvP titles into points - eg. r3 Glad gives 10 points, r6 Champ gives 50 points, whatever - and then, based on that, one gets exclusive PvP-related title in GW2. Still, it would produce GW1-based rank discrimination in completely another game, what will be unhealthy for GW2 PvP in its beginnings.

There's simply no viable way to reward PvP-only side of GW1 without breaking GW2 at its birth. Rank discrimination for PvE guilds, based on GWAMM and/or 50/50 is, of course, possible, but it's less problematic - PvE side is always bigger in terms of playerbase and, after a while, GW1 GWAMM will mean shit in GW2, easily 'outprestiged' by any harder-to-get GW2 title.

Promoting PvP statues to count as 5 statues towards HoM would aid PvPers enough in case of GW1 HoM - if you have Zaishen + Glad + Hero/Champ/Codex in your HoM, you can essentially ignore 10 irritating PvE titles, while still getting 50/50.

Quote:

I also think it would be really awesome if I could spend reward points / ZCoins to get PvP-equipment onto my PvE characters. Some of those skins cannot be acquired any other way!

There was a thread covering that issue in Sardelac some time ago, if i remember correctly. That's a good idea and i really can't think why it hasn't been introduced into the game.

crimson.cosmos · Nov 17, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Thanks for the replies!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's smart design; the PvP community largely does not care about the HoM, and the PvE community would have had an enormous group cry-athalon if they couldn't get 50/50 without PvP.

The whole Zaishen-title-is-PvP to meet the requirement was part of this; the PvE players get to buy their PvP title for their HoM, and the PvP community gets to see a spike in key prices to let them buy everything else they might want.

That's true, as far as the current version of HoM goes. ANet did a good job with it, but the question now is if they shouldn't give some sort of branch to the PvP minded.

Quote:

As for rewards I would like to see, it'd be nice if Eternal Champion / Eternal Hero / Eternal Gladiator carried over to GW2 the way GWAMM does. All of those titles are probably equally difficult to get.

Does GWAMM get transferred to GW2?
Though I hate to admit it, the people who said that players having PvP titles right off the bat might start the “ball” rolling early are probably right. As far as I know the current HoM doesn't actually transfer any titles to the other side, but gives some depending on each player's completion of the monument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

As far as ANet shared some insight on GW2's PvP, there are going to be only two formats: GvG and WvW.

There's actually going to be three. There's the two you mentioned and another type of “Structured PvP” that will allow players to join in during matches and have various objectives. The team sizes on that will be variable as well. I don't see a connection with GW there though.

Quote:

Based on that, only Champion could be carried over to GW2. But since GvG there and here is going to be vastly different, having rank discrimination in GW2 since the very beginning is a terrible idea - even maxed Champion from GW1 may mean shit when compared to GW2's format, mechanics and gameplay.
The only way to carry the titles over would be to somehow scale PvP titles into points - eg. r3 Glad gives 10 points, r6 Champ gives 50 points, whatever - and then, based on that, one gets exclusive PvP-related title in GW2. Still, it would produce GW1-based rank discrimination in completely another game, what will be unhealthy for GW2 PvP in its beginnings.

Agreed.

Quote:

There's simply no viable way to reward PvP-only side of GW1 without breaking GW2 at its birth. Rank discrimination for PvE guilds, based on GWAMM and/or 50/50 is, of course, possible, but it's less problematic - PvE side is always bigger in terms of playerbase and, after a while, GW1 GWAMM will mean shit in GW2, easily 'outprestiged' by any harder-to-get GW2 title.

The way I saw it was mainly as having other options for getting to a 50/50 HoM in this game. If you're into PvP and have got a 50/50 HoM already, you'd be already sorted. If you haven't, you could opt to get there through your kind of fun.

Of course, if ANet is so inclined as to create a new set of rewards for a PvP version of the HoM, then one could choose to do additional PvP stuff in order to obtain the said items/rewards. What this would mean is that if you're 50/50 now and you get, for example, Gladiator 5, you would gain a special reward in GW2. Basically the PvP rewards would depend not so much on HoM points but on achievements in GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I also think it would be really awesome if I could spend reward points / ZCoins to get PvP-equipment onto my PvE characters. Some of those skins cannot be acquired any other way!

If they make some items specially for a PvP HoM, then one part of that reward could be option of also having it on your PvE toons.

If they don't, you should still have the option to get the existing HoM items on your PvP chars.

cc

X CDH X · Nov 17, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Obviously it is pretty lame that Zaishen title counts as PvP title. You don't even have to do a second of PvP to get the required amount for the HoM.

I do think the HoM rewards are kinda unfair on the people that do primarily PvP as they would arguably be better at the game than PvEers. Though at the moment only 30 points is really needed in the HoM reward and the others are just useless titles.

I got 50/50 but I do a mix of PvP/PvE so it wasn't too hard to buy the remaining minipets (which are also crap and pointless) and armor sets.

One of my friends is using his Zkeys to pay people to do vanquishing for him and I guess HM missions so maybe some of you PvP guys could do that too?

Once GW2 is out money, Ectos and Zkeys are gonna be 100% useless......

fowlero · Nov 17, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's smart design; the PvP community largely does not care about the HoM, and the PvE community would have had an enormous group cry-athalon if they couldn't get 50/50 without PvP.

The whole Zaishen-title-is-PvP to meet the requirement was part of this; the PvE players get to buy their PvP title for their HoM, and the PvP community gets to see a spike in key prices to let them buy everything else they might want.

As for rewards I would like to see, it'd be nice if Eternal Champion / Eternal Hero / Eternal Gladiator carried over to GW2 the way GWAMM does. All of those titles are probably equally difficult to get.

(Yes, the PvP titles were more or less farmed by *way teams during double point weekends; the PvE titles were farmed with farming builds. Same difference).

I also think it would be really awesome if I could spend reward points / ZCoins to get PvP-equipment onto my PvE characters. Some of those skins cannot be acquired any other way!

This just says it all.

Granted it'd be nice for the Eternal Champion etc or maybe something to do with mAT placings, just to have something to show for the PvP in GW. However i highly doubt it'll happen for the original reason you state.

Catering to the masses is what it was always gonna be.

urania · Nov 17, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

i suppose making so itd be possible to get 50/50 from either pve or pvp or combining both would be too much to ask for.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 17, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

The real question is why do people obsess about 50/50 at all?

"I have to grind all this boring crap I really don't want to do at all, but Anet gives me a reward(pointless title) in GW2 so I have to farm all these pointless titles in GW1."

You guys would make an interesting topic of study for psychologers.

Killed u man · Nov 17, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Well, I personally ain't asking for much, but a litte recognition for the fact that I have every PvP title (except Commander, as my title acount was created post deletion) would be nice. Mainly because I do also have every PvE title (or atleast working towards it) and will be 50/50 soon and thus, no matter how you twist or turn it, I''ve achieved more than your average PvE 50/50 acount.

SpyderArachnid · Nov 17, 2010, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

The real question is why do people obsess about 50/50 at all?

"I have to grind all this boring crap I really don't want to do at all, but Anet gives me a reward(pointless title) in GW2 so I have to farm all these pointless titles in GW1."

You guys would make an interesting topic of study for psychologers.

Well, 1-30 is easy. Doesn't require titles to get to 30. You can get 32 points without having to farm a single title. So getting all the rewards, is non-title based.

But from 31-50, it is all title grind. So you are rewarded what you grind for. You grind for titles, so you are rewarded titles. Makes complete sense, and I don't see it being pointless at all. Obviously they are grinding for titles, so why would they be upset about getting a title for a reward?

*lemming* · Nov 17, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

i suppose making so itd be possible to get 50/50 from either pve or pvp or combining both would be too much to ask for.

That'd just make PvEers even less happy.

In fact, I don't think that PvP achievements should be worth any points at all. The current system of allowing PvP titles to be "done" at rank 3 (or 6) is completely nonsensical - except to PvEers.

crimson.cosmos · Nov 17, 2010, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

i suppose making so itd be possible to get 50/50 from either pve or pvp or combining both would be too much to ask for.

Actually, that's exactly what I was suggesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

That'd just make PvEers even less happy.

Why would that make PvEers less happy? I'm not saying have it so by reaching rank 3 in Gladiator, Codex and Champion and 6 in Hero would get you to 50/50, but it should at least get you to 30/50 (if you have all of them I mean).

As far as the PvE guys are concerned, this doesn't affect them at all.

Quote:

In fact, I don't think that PvP achievements should be worth any points at all. The current system of allowing PvP titles to be "done" at rank 3 (or 6) is completely nonsensical - except to PvEers.

That's kind of going against the point of the thread. What you say would make sense actually for the current HoM thing, but as Ensign said it makes it possible for PvP players to sell Zaishen keys at a better price to they have a shot as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

The real question is why do people obsess about 50/50 at all?

"I have to grind all this boring crap I really don't want to do at all, but Anet gives me a reward(pointless title) in GW2 so I have to farm all these pointless titles in GW1."

It's not about getting to 50/50 no matter what. It's about breathing some life into PvP. It's about being able to choose which way you play the game without feeling like you're missing out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Well, 1-30 is easy. Doesn't require titles to get to 30. You can get 32 points without having to farm a single title. So getting all the rewards, is non-title based.

But from 31-50, it is all title grind. So you are rewarded what you grind for. You grind for titles, so you are rewarded titles. Makes complete sense, and I don't see it being pointless at all. Obviously they are grinding for titles, so why would they be upset about getting a title for a reward?

Not all titles are "grinded". Not all the game is "work". You can't resonably get to 30 without some serious farming if you're not taking on any titles. I personally think that just by playing through the game you can get enough to reach 30/50 or be pretty close.
And as some people already suggested, it doesn't have to be all about titles either. It can monitor the number of consecutive wins, tournament rankings, the amount of Balthazar Faction, etc.

cc

*lemming* · Nov 17, 2010, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimson.cosmos

Why would that make PvEers less happy? I'm not saying have it so by reaching rank 3 in Gladiator, Codex and Champion and 6 in Hero would get you to 50/50, but it should at least get you to 30/50 (if you have all of them I mean).

They'd be complaining about how PvPers are getting just as many rewards without slogging through any of their PvE content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimson.cosmos

That's kind of going against the point of the thread. What you say would make sense actually for the current HoM thing, but as Ensign said it makes it possible for PvP players to sell Zaishen keys at a better price to they have a shot as well.

Some people would still be interested enough to try to get in for the separate rewards (title carryover perhaps).

Besides, an increase in zkey prices from 5k to 5.5k isn't making it all that much easier for PvPers to buy the PvE side of their HoM.

gremlin · Nov 18, 2010, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

The real question is why do people obsess about 50/50 at all?

"I have to grind all this boring crap I really don't want to do at all, but Anet gives me a reward(pointless title) in GW2 so I have to farm all these pointless titles in GW1."

You guys would make an interesting topic of study for psychologers.

Now just lie down on the couch and relax.
now tell me why do you think you HAVE to do all this boring crap, is someone forcing you ?
Do you have voices telling you to do this crap ? and why do you think other people obsess about it.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 18, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Well, it says in the link I provided above:

Theorists focus on the built-in reward systems of the games to explain their addictive nature.[44][45] In reference to gamers such as one suicide in China, the head of one software association was quoted, "In the hypothetical world created by such games, they become confident and gain satisfaction, which they cannot get in the real world."[46]

You have to admit the title system can't be entirely healthy?