Curse

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 24, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

you cannot predict whether your opp will have a higher or lower rating.

sorry, but you're wrong.

and what score are you referring to?

Well you can't predict but you wouldn't normally pick imperial isle if you're gonna run a split.

On AB we will have to agree to disagree. The score I'm talking about is a bug, apparently because of the err13-thingie right now the game goes on forever. So now AB actually IS broken and needs a fix.

Hobbs · Nov 24, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

and what score are you referring to?

Changing districts/zones is down in Euro servers at the moment so AB games don't finish and the score keeps piling up. I have guildies in games with scores at a similar level.

Tsiisus · Nov 24, 2010, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

what we do, when we see luxons are speedcapping, is we just run the way we came from from our newly capped shrine and kill them while they're trying to cap. if they wanna run away good for us, we cna chase them to the next shrine they capped. never failed us so far.

I can say we've plenty of times retreated from a situation like that to an undying position, and wiped the chasing team. You don't instantly push to lord chamber in gvg either, do you?

Anc lands from luxon side is pretty horrible. Due to requirement of having a fire ele. Otherwise it's shithard to get in quick enough without your monk being vulnerable to KD, pressure - without ability to retreat. And you know how many bring meleehate in here. Npcs still add up to quite a lot of pressure.

There are ways to get the wall npcs down. Or shrines.
But it takes a hell lot more time than killing two ranger npcs - constantly losing time, especially without fire ele.

Sometimes, skirmishes are good. Beasting out a team of 4 usually is a lot more reliable way to win than relying on stuff like splitting: yet still, you can gain that advantage BY splitting too.

carbajac · Nov 25, 2010, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

So you like the fact that the current meta is a stagnated map for the past year or so with no variation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oi, if you read my post, I said that I don't like that the map has basically stayed the same for quite a while. It's a large part of why I've all but stopped playing AB so much. Random or rotating map rotation is a horrible idea to fix the problem.

urania · Nov 25, 2010, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsiisus

I can say we've plenty of times retreated from a situation like that to an undying position, and wiped the chasing team. You don't instantly push to lord chamber in gvg either, do you?

Anc lands from luxon side is pretty horrible. Due to requirement of having a fire ele. Otherwise it's shithard to get in quick enough without your monk being vulnerable to KD, pressure - without ability to retreat. And you know how many bring meleehate in here. Npcs still add up to quite a lot of pressure.

There are ways to get the wall npcs down. Or shrines.
But it takes a hell lot more time than killing two ranger npcs - constantly losing time, especially without fire ele.

Sometimes, skirmishes are good. Beasting out a team of 4 usually is a lot more reliable way to win than relying on stuff like splitting: yet still, you can gain that advantage BY splitting too.

well as said. we wont chase you all over the map to kill you. just to the closest enemy shrine. and trust me, by having charge on one of the warriors (more often than not, at least), we WILL catch up to any runners sooner or later

sure, capping is important, but so are skirmish matches. and to be frank, the only teams that pose somewhat of a threat are those with black out dom mesmer or ranger and warriors or sins (or the standard TA setup with a w, r and nec) that are as offensive and capable as our team is.

Mercykiller · Nov 25, 2010, 09:37 PM // 21:37

AB really does need quite a bit to make it enjoyable again.

At the very least, Anet should at least include the condition that the map cannot remain the same every three hour period.

Honestly, AB has had major problems for a while now, but they were able to be safely ignored because the majority of players merely played AB for fun. Now that they're all scrambling for HoM points, though...

kedde · Nov 26, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

You mean now that all the scrubs that farmed faction in ab left for pve, we have to wait over and over, and face the same synced teams over and over which makes it boring in the long run.

Shadow Sin · Nov 26, 2010, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbajac

Oi, if you read my post, I said that I don't like that the map has basically stayed the same for quite a while. It's a large part of why I've all but stopped playing AB so much. Random or rotating map rotation is a horrible idea to fix the problem.

I did, but your post has two opposing views it sounds like you're bipolar. Random maps (set on a time schedule) would be a nicer fix than no fix.

mr monk rupsie · Nov 26, 2010, 09:19 AM // 09:19

The problem is with ab:

Luxon: above average good teams (overall)/short waiting time (1-5 min) due to lower luxon players.

Kurzick: average teams (overall)/ long waiting times (up to 10-20 minutes waiting time for 1 match) due to huge kurzick player base.

Because in the early years of factions the kurzicks farmed through FFF (for the title)the majority of the playerbase decided to be kurzick and hence a lot of kurzick population in grentz.

1 guild: UCW moved to kurzick specifically to push the map back to saltspray. The problem they encountered was that even with better teams on the kurzick side they had to wait sooo long the total count of wins in the session barely got higher then normal.

Problem is that the playerbase stick to there side because of the title/friends/alliance. And switching back and forth is not that easy. Since you require an invite of the opposite faction.

My solution is not to rotate: it only treats the side effect. But give the same option as players that want to play in Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, an ambassador that give you the option to travel to the desired location. This will make the playerbase a lot more flexibale to switch to the "other" side.

If even then the player base is not even, you can apply a map rotation.

Shadow Sin · Nov 26, 2010, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr monk rupsie

The problem is with ab:

Luxon: above average good teams (overall)/short waiting time (1-5 min) due to lower luxon players.

Kurzick: average teams (overall)/ long waiting times (up to 10-20 minutes waiting time for 1 match) due to huge kurzick player base.

Because in the early years of factions the kurzicks farmed through FFF (for the title)the majority of the playerbase decided to be kurzick and hence a lot of kurzick population in grentz.

1 guild: UCW moved to kurzick specifically to push the map back to saltspray. The problem they encountered was that even with better teams on the kurzick side they had to wait sooo long the total count of wins in the session barely got higher then normal.

Problem is that the playerbase stick to there side because of the title/friends/alliance. And switching back and forth is not that easy. Since you require an invite of the opposite faction.

My solution is not to rotate: it only treats the side effect. But give the same option as players that want to play in Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, an ambassador that give you the option to travel to the desired location. This will make the playerbase a lot more flexibale to switch to the "other" side.

If even then the player base is not even, you can apply a map rotation.

It's called a guest invite.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 26, 2010, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr monk rupsie

My solution is not to rotate: it only treats the side effect. But give the same option as players that want to play in Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, an ambassador that give you the option to travel to the desired location. This will make the playerbase a lot more flexibale to switch to the "other" side.

If even then the player base is not even, you can apply a map rotation.

I agree with this. It's been mentioned in sardelac as well I believe that there should be a way to turn faction from one allegiance into the other. The problem is indeed having way too many kurzick players, most of whom are of lower skill than the average luxon. Just by moving half the kurzicks to luxon we all get more matches and probably much more map rotation.

We did some games as luxon last night, won most of them and I figured we could go kurzick for "the challenge". Got us guest invites, waited in queue for 20 mins to get in, saw other teams go in at that time and realised it would be another 20 mins for us to get in. Went back to lux, got in straight away - another win. So yeah, stop with whatever lore there is and let people exchange faction freely. Or some similar remedy.

Hugh Manatee · Nov 26, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

We all know how pointless it is to keep AB map choice dependant on pve.

Actually, it may seem backwards but if somehow AB map rotation was based on PvE donations, or even the results from competitive missions the border might fluctuate more. Kurzicks tend to win the JQ and fort fail more then the luxons, and the kurzick title grinder guilds are pretty hard core.

Right now the problems are A: AB rewards less then the CMs or vanquishes from a time investment standpoint. It's not worth it to AB on non zquest days, when it is zquest day, the border does move, barely, and the map changes.
B:Kurzicks suck in AB, either by a ratio or lack of interest, this is why their border is stuck in the first place. If you randomize the map, they would just suck on random maps, the border would still tank, and you'd have the self defeating logic spiral of "i don't play kurzick cause they lose, because i don't play kurzick they lose..." and the timer would still take forever.
C: The point of the map rotation was to reflect the real time situation of the borders, randomizing the map makes no sense, why should crappy kurzick players have get to strike deep luxon territory and get the shot at playing on a map balanced the other way that rewards more faction if they haven't earned it. Ideally, from the start they should have had different missions at each level, at least 3 for each side of the border, kinda like how the HoH maps have varying objectives, but all the maps have the same objectives layed out in minimally different configurations. Even if they did rotate this gets boring.

Solutions:

1:Buff the faction reward for player/NPC kills in AB. The buffing the end reward will just encourage leechers. Maybe 50 per kill if are active(have left the start area), and an extra 50-100 or so for every kill you're involved in(same criteria as getting XP in pve) This may draw more active and better players to both sides.

2: Factor in the wins from competative missions, and maybe total faction donated when the border is determined. I don't know if there's a huge disparity between the grinder guilds, but I do know the odds of wining JQ and FA are in the kurzicks favor at this time. If kurz wins at JQ and FA were a factor(and more importantly, luxon losses), the border might push more frequently.

3: Instead of randomizing the maps themselves(or making new maps since that apparently isn't an option), edit them so there are different objectives each round. Maybe make the objective to kill an NPC inside the fortress areas on the deep maps(remove the base defenders) a sort of fort aspenwood extreme, maybe some sort of supply running or CTF on the more symetrical, open maps, or a KotH type thing.

Bottom line it would take effort that I don't think they're going to exert.

icedwhitemocha · Nov 26, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

it seems most people have just gotten bored, now that everything is either stomping noobs on ancestral, or getting stomped because of noobs on acestral.

This. I don't really care what Anet does, but I really wish they would do something.

It's a sticky situation to blame it on the players--telling kurzicks to "get better"? The game is 5 years old. If somebody's not good by now, they're not getting good.

The problem you face with switching sides to push from Kurzick is the HORRENDOUS wait times on kurz side. The reason I've pretty much stopped ABing is because of the lose/lose situation referenced by Kedde. Assuming we're on Ancestral, I can either:
1) play lux and get possibly decent allies and quick matches, but be forced to bring a fire ele and lose if kurz have a single decent team
2) play kurz and get nearly assured wins, but wait 20 minutes between matches
3) alt f4 <-- WINNER

mr monk rupsie · Nov 27, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

1:Buff the faction reward for player/NPC kills in AB. The buffing the end reward will just encourage leechers. Maybe 50 per kill if are active(have left the start area), and an extra 50-100 or so for every kill you're involved in(same criteria as getting XP in pve) This may draw more active and better players to both sides.

I like this idea. An side effect of this could be that people that spend time in FA and JQ return to AB again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

2: Factor in the wins from competative missions, and maybe total faction donated when the border is determined. I don't know if there's a huge disparity between the grinder guilds, but I do know the odds of wining JQ and FA are in the kurzicks favor at this time. If kurz wins at JQ and FA were a factor(and more importantly, luxon losses), the border might push more frequently.

I reject this idea: If 1 factions grind a bit harder then the other it still will result in a stall. Let the map just be at the win/lose ratio of the faction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

3: Instead of randomizing the maps themselves(or making new maps since that apparently isn't an option), edit them so there are different objectives each round. Maybe make the objective to kill an NPC inside the fortress areas on the deep maps(remove the base defenders) a sort of fort aspenwood extreme, maybe some sort of supply running or CTF on the more symetrical, open maps, or a KotH type thing.

This will take huge amount of time into rewriting the AB format. I dont believe they will use great amounts of time/resources to implent this solution. Besides the team requires more orientated builds to the objective and those implementations can also be found in HA . Why not play there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

It's called a guest invite.

It is still hard to get such invite of the opposting faction, isnt it?

carbajac · Nov 27, 2010, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

I did, but your post has two opposing views it sounds like you're bipolar. Random maps (set on a time schedule) would be a nicer fix than no fix.

Nope, nope, what I wrote was pretty clear.

I don't like that the maps are stagnant. A random map fix is worse than no fix. I think there should be a fix just not a random map fix. Take off your internet blinders and READ.

Aaanyway, I think I'd be ok with an NPC allowing you to fight for either side. It only slightly takes away from the guild allying with a faction idea but would allow for easier side switching. Back when I needed to, it would have been nice to be able to switch sides for faction gain instead of having to switch guilds or asking your guild to switch or guesting.

kedde · Nov 27, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

To get a guest invite, either ask your flist, or go to gtob/tombs/kamadan or whatever and spam lf guest invite to lux/kurz guild.

Works every time.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 27, 2010, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

To get a guest invite, either ask your flist, or go to gtob/tombs/kamadan or whatever and spam lf guest invite to lux/kurz guild.

Works every time.

Constructive post. Have you even bothered to read the thread? It's nice that you have friends and all but it still seems most kurzicks don't or have not realised they can switch factions and get to play more and with better allies.

kedde · Nov 27, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Constructive post, did you even read the post 2 posts back before mine? I answered the last question given.

Stop trying to make up baseless assumptions about the meaning of my words.
Anyone will agree that there ought to be 10 times the options for socializing and general contact utility in the game, that's just not realistic.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 27, 2010, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Constructive post, did you even read the post 2 posts back before mine? I answered the last question given.

Stop trying to make up baseless assumptions about the meaning of my words.
Anyone will agree that there ought to be 10 times the options for socializing and general contact utility in the game, that's just not realistic.

I'm not making assumptions, I'm replying to the text you type out. You come up with smart remarks about "just get a guest" as if ten times the amount of people are stuck as kurzick just because they haven't figured out they can guest as luxon.

Since you obviously need to be spoonfed I'll oblige: This is not about socialising. It's about evening out the numbers that play for the different factions. For whatever reason there are far more kurzicks than luxons in AB. Don't you think it would make for better games if there was a npc in the outpost to map you back and forth and exchange the faction from one side to the other? So that even if you needed kurzick faction you could map over, get a game and still work on your title track.

Guesting simply isn't a good option for people working on their titles(double faction for donating), which I suspect is the reason so many people are kurzick?

kedde · Nov 28, 2010, 11:54 AM // 11:54

So I guess you need to be spoonfed reading comprehension as well.

You're replying with snarky remarks to something which has nothing to do with what you're trying to point out.
Let me quote what I answered just so you might notice:

Quote:

It is still hard to get such invite of the opposting faction, isnt it?

Saying it's easy as RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO to get a guest invite does in no way imply that I don't want, or think that AB needs huge improvements or that I don't think what you suggest would be a good thing.