Curse

Sirius Bsns · Aug 29, 2010, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Empathic removal FTW

B.Flash FTW

Wish Swiftdeath · Aug 29, 2010, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

the thing about RA is that it's random. If you run a B surge and you go against a team with 2 warriors, awesome. You are going to help your team out a bunch in that match. But after you beat that team you will move on, but eventually you will face a team that has, say: a barbed signet necro, mindblast ele, a monk and <generic other caster>. Your blind spam will do nothing in this match, and you have successfully lost your team the game because of your 1 dimensional build.

You are all talking about scenarios which are very isolated but none of you are thinking long term. Yes, I can run a gimmick Life Bond + Shield of Regeneration monk and teams with 3 warriors wouldn't be able to kill me, but that character will suck versus most other teams. A B surge is the same way. Yes, it does a pretty good job of preventing a large amount of melee damage, but it doesn't have any form of shutdown, it's damage is pretty marginal and is vulnerable to enchantment strips. In many matches these weaknesses will not be noticed because the enemy team cannot or does not exploit them, but in others there are way better characters than a B surge that you could have on your team.

In order for a build to be truely "great" in RA I feel like it needs to be able to succeed in a great many matchups. Every team needs a healer, so running a monk in RA is obviously going to lead to success. Every team needs damage, but they also need shutdown and utility. Shock Axe and Dev Hammer warriors fill this roll nicely. Rangers with mend touch add a great mix of offensive and defensive utility via their interrupts and mend touch. For a build that has powerful antimelee in addition to defensive and offensive support (unlike the B surge, who does pretty much just anti melee), a foul feast, corrupt enchants necro does the trick.

tl;dr: If you get wrecked by a team with a B surge, reroll to a barbed signet necro and try again. If you are getting mad about RA you are taking it too seriously =)

There is usually AT LEAST one physical in a match but even if there isn't you should be able to damage/pressure targets that aren't being hit. Sure it's unlikely you'll kill something but you can still do pressure and force the monk to heal. You can cracked armor something your warrior is hitting on etc, sure it's not great but you won't necessarily 'lose' the game for your team. Also looking at the usual quality of monks, antimelee is necessary to stop your team wiping in 2 minutes.

Sirius Bsns · Aug 29, 2010, 06:06 PM // 18:06

RA is 1000% anti melee. That's why I often roll a Mind Blast Ele or a damage-based Domination Mesmer. I laugh when I spam a target and they use Shield Bash, Bonetti's Defense, Balanced Stance, or Blinding Surge on me thinking it'll stop my spells any. I often see interrupt mesmers shortly afterward because they get tired of being owned after failing with their one-dimensional anti melee build.

Ganks · Sep 03, 2010, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

often see interrupt mesmers

interrupt mesmers, interrupt rangers... I see more interrupt builds in RA than any other build. Interrupt spike is the state of RA. And because less people are doing the highend PvP thing there are more skilled people in RA that know how to interrupt properly or at least more effective than usual.
I got my glad points in TA but I'm stuck facing rupt spikes and it's more fun to just hang out in FA instead of facing interrupt spam every other match.
You might as well drop 2 skills out of every build you run in RA just to block projectiles or shut down interrupts.
x/Me or x/E everything.

yawn
I miss TA and proper 4way builds.

Jeydra · Sep 03, 2010, 09:01 AM // 09:01

@Jonas - but it's so much easier to come to Guru and QQ about how overpowered BSurge spam is !!1!one!!

Agree entirely with what you wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

There is usually AT LEAST one physical in a match but even if there isn't you should be able to damage/pressure targets that aren't being hit. Sure it's unlikely you'll kill something but you can still do pressure and force the monk to heal. You can cracked armor something your warrior is hitting on etc, sure it's not great but you won't necessarily 'lose' the game for your team. Also looking at the usual quality of monks, antimelee is necessary to stop your team wiping in 2 minutes.

Antimelee is necessary to stop your team wiping even with quality Monks actually, that's why the old TA standard included it (Faint / Insidious), and why almost every (good) Monk in RA is Mo/W.

Also it might be just me, but I find playing BSurge against 1 physical builds to be very inefficient. If you know you're going to face only one Warrior, there are better builds out there for you to use. BSurge only becomes good when there are 2 or more physicals around, which doesn't happen very often and certainly isn't going to happen 25 times in a row.

chullster · Sep 03, 2010, 09:40 AM // 09:40

When I first got GW, I tried RA on nearly all my characters, never really enjoyed any of them much. Got some wins here and there but gave up Ra before I got to R1.

Then few months later I tried rit again after a buff and found most people ignore rits if you're not resto.

I bring armour-ignoring damage, hexes, a condition (blind), aoe degen, life stealing that I can use or put on a team mate, and 2 spirits to buff other skills/pressure the opposition, so a bit of everything really.

No idea why, but I always do better and have more chance of getting 25 with no healer when I play rit.

I also think Rits are imba like Paras used to be, ie put a few together without skill overlap and they face-roll teams, synched or not. Quickest 25 I've had was with a team of 3 rits and a paragon.

I actually enjoy winning without getting a healer on my team, as it generally means your team mates have brought good builds and/or are good players.
Plus the 4th damage dealer means teams lose to you very quickly.

I think if you bring a build that works but isn't meta, you will have the most fun/success.

Wish Swiftdeath · Sep 03, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Jonas - but it's so much easier to come to Guru and QQ about how overpowered BSurge spam is !!1!one!!

Agree entirely with what you wrote.

Antimelee is necessary to stop your team wiping even with quality Monks actually, that's why the old TA standard included it (Faint / Insidious), and why almost every (good) Monk in RA is Mo/W.

Also it might be just me, but I find playing BSurge against 1 physical builds to be very inefficient. If you know you're going to face only one Warrior, there are better builds out there for you to use. BSurge only becomes good when there are 2 or more physicals around, which doesn't happen very often and certainly isn't going to happen 25 times in a row.

I agree that vs one melee its still kinda crappy but there are so many melee players that its rare I'd say 17/25 have at least 2 melee players on their team. I completely pulled that figure out of my ass but that's what i've experienced while playing RA.

Also with good positioning you should never wipe in 2 minutes unless you have 4 squishies vs 3 sins or a couple esurges along with big damagers like mind blasters.

Corporeal Ghost · Sep 06, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I know I've beat this horse to death, but here's a slightly different angle on it.

Added offense always has value. Wiping the other team faster translates not only into more enjoyment (for most), but into faster matches and more points (if that's your thing).

Defense suffers from diminishing returns, though. Those three monk and a BSurge teams might be unkillable, but they can't exactly win. There is some threshold you cross where added defense is more beneficial than added offense, but to reach this threshold, you need to have a critical mass of offense, and given the composition of the rest of RA, you often will not hit this unless your template is primarily offensive, as everyone who has ever played a monk knows.

stirfry · Sep 09, 2010, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I'm a new player and I hate this format so far. There's a huge list of skill and profession combinations. Most webpages with builds are out of date or full of people arguing with each other. In game even if I make it clear I'm new and looking for tips I just get disgusted complaints, insults, and ragequits, never actual advice. This is the most hostile multiplayer game I've ever played. Fast, unranked, random matches should be the most casual format possible, but everyone I play with takes these matches extremely seriously and sounds completely stressed out. Sometimes people quit and insult you even if your team wins if they didn't like a skill on your bar.

Every GvG guild I've seen only recruits experienced players that will help them get wins. They aren't interested in using their GvG games as training grounds for random new players. That leaves RA as the easiest place to start learning PvP without support and why you see so many new people with no clue(like me). At this rate I don't know how I'm ever going to get decent. Summary: QQ and I don't know how to get better at RA. Tried some PvXwiki builds but I'm still not doing so good.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 09, 2010, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by stirfry

I'm a new player and I hate this format so far. There's a huge list of skill and profession combinations. Most webpages with builds are out of date or full of people arguing with each other. In game even if I make it clear I'm new and looking for tips I just get disgusted complaints, insults, and ragequits, never actual advice. This is the most hostile multiplayer game I've ever played. Fast, unranked, random matches should be the most casual format possible, but everyone I play with takes these matches extremely seriously and sounds completely stressed out. Sometimes people quit and insult you even if your team wins if they didn't like a skill on your bar.

Every GvG guild I've seen only recruits experienced players that will help them get wins. They aren't interested in using their GvG games as training grounds for random new players. That leaves RA as the easiest place to start learning PvP without support and why you see so many new people with no clue(like me). At this rate I don't know how I'm ever going to get decent. Summary: QQ and I don't know how to get better at RA. Tried some PvXwiki builds but I'm still not doing so good.

RA is now the only place that a player can grind for "gladiator" points. Winning gladiator points is the only worthy reason of playing RA. Without it, RA would become another "Codex Arena" except for Z-Quest days [maybe]. The following is a formula that can explain the exact reason(s) why RA is such a hostile arena:

Dishonorable Combatant System + Resign-Denial + Report-Abuse + Monk/No-Monk Imbalance + Current Anti-Melee Overabusage + Skill Imbalances + Bad Players = Complete and Utter Hostility!

Undead Cheese · Sep 09, 2010, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Ugh, RA.

I'm getting sick and tired of random kids trash talking everytime through PMs with things like ''NOOB MELEE'' ''YOU DIDNT ATTACK THE MONK NOOB'', and going as far as logging into alternate accounts just to QQ at you more when you ignore them.

/rant.

Missing HB · Sep 09, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

RA is now the only place that a player can grind for "gladiator" points. Winning gladiator points is the only worthy reason of playing RA. Without it, RA would become another "Codex Arena" except for Z-Quest days [maybe]. The following is a formula that can explain the exact reason(s) why RA is such a hostile arena:

Dishonorable Combatant System + Resign-Denial + Report-Abuse + Monk/No-Monk Imbalance + Current Anti-Melee Overabusage + Skill Imbalances + Bad Players = Complete and Utter Hostility!

You forgot + syncers ! Anyway , i guess we got to deal with what pvp is atm , i highly doubt they will do something in the near future ...

Corporeal Ghost · Sep 10, 2010, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by stirfry

I'm a new player and...

It's basically the same in any other game, except the negatives are inflated by three factors. This game has a much larger learning curve than most, with all kinds of viable (at least in RA) skills and strategy that can wreck you if you can't figure out what they're doing. A lot of other games have quick formats that are not team-based, so you aren't dragging your team down, as it were, during your learning period. And it's really the only game in its genre, so it's not like you can really apply pre-existing knowledge to it.

Everyone went through the same period you did. The lucky ones got into the game when everyone was bad, but RA has become increasingly a cesspool of elitism, ironically from players who are almost universally terrible. You can either grind through the learning period like most of the people still in RA did, or you can give up. Both plays have merit.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 10, 2010, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

You forgot + syncers ! Anyway , i guess we got to deal with what pvp is atm , i highly doubt they will do something in the near future ...

Syncers don't really bother me much. If I get at least a monk and a decent DPSer on my team, I can tear them to shreds in almost all cases.

axe · Sep 10, 2010, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stirfry

I'm a new player and I hate this format so far. There's a huge list of skill and profession combinations. Most webpages with builds are out of date or full of people arguing with each other. In game even if I make it clear I'm new and looking for tips I just get disgusted complaints, insults, and ragequits, never actual advice. This is the most hostile multiplayer game I've ever played. Fast, unranked, random matches should be the most casual format possible, but everyone I play with takes these matches extremely seriously and sounds completely stressed out. Sometimes people quit and insult you even if your team wins if they didn't like a skill on your bar.

Every GvG guild I've seen only recruits experienced players that will help them get wins. They aren't interested in using their GvG games as training grounds for random new players. That leaves RA as the easiest place to start learning PvP without support and why you see so many new people with no clue(like me). At this rate I don't know how I'm ever going to get decent. Summary: QQ and I don't know how to get better at RA. Tried some PvXwiki builds but I'm still not doing so good.

Start by picking a profession that you enjoy playing, then google Pvxwiki and get an approved RA build. You do NOT have to play this build indefinitely it is a starting point, rather than ask RA trolls for their help/opinion the helpful players have done this for you and posted this information on Pvxwiki.

Play that bar in RA, you will no longer get flamed for a "bad" (unknown untested) skill bar. That is step one

now that you are playing the format you will see some common reoccurring things, profesions, skillbars, etc.. these are the "meta" builds you will face OVER and OVER in RA. If you want to be creative figure out what is getting the most play and spec slightly against it.

If you want to win points get good at playing a healer

As a healer you will get the MOST amount of flames even if you are good, if your team loses you are ALWAYS to blame, just put yourself in offline mode and turn off local and team chat if this bothers you, otherwise take it as part of the format.

Most people that play this game are children

From RA get Glad 3 and you are IMO better than 75% of the low ranked HA population, Go there on a profession that you enjoy playing and see what skillbars are being used for your profession. If you got good at monking in RA you will find it easy to get on HA teams.

This is probably the quickest path to "getting good" at the game from the perspective of teaching yourself. Get some fame under your belt and you can decide where you want to go from there, casual RA, AB games, more serious competitive/farming HA games, or try GvG with some of your HA Friends.

Wish Swiftdeath · Sep 10, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I would disagree HA is alot different to RA. You see RA monks trying to HA and it's just plainly obvious - they load up channeling and redbar stuff without actually watching the game.

If you still want to practice in RA, turn off the party bar and try healing there - there's alot less clutter in RA so if you can't do it there - don't bother in HA.

If you're new and want some advice you can PM me for some, I'm not a top player or anything but I roughly know the basics and can point you in the right direction if you're just starting off.

urania · Sep 10, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

AB used to be good place to train field vision healing/protting.

also, what exactly makes you think HA monks dont just load up channeling and redbar without watching the field?

tbh, it takes more than just playing the right build and watch positioning and the surroundings - you need to adjust the interface and the hotkeys so that it allows you to minimize the amount of time you're staring at bars (if you'll be healing) and allow you to react fast and in a precise way. if you click all your skills (admittedly, i usually click(ed) most of my skills as mo, but i got used to it so i manage(d) it).

axe · Sep 13, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

also, what exactly makes you think HA monks dont just load up channeling and redbar without watching the field?

More importantly, low(un)ranked HA monks.

IMO the progression to learning PvP at this time is RA > HA (with a class you enjoy playing) then decide what you want to do next. This is for people that are learning from scratch which is what the OP is asking for.

Garet1337 · Sep 13, 2010, 03:08 PM // 15:08

nah if people want to learn HA all they have to do is join the ever so popular randomways, gw is so dead that even randomways have a shot at holding halls a couple times depending on what guild groups are going in. Only problem with my statement is i'm not taking in bbway and wota sins which r ruining HA.

and i've seen a lot from this post that in order to monk u must mo/w cause everything else sucks? when i randomly get bored i go on my Hero Battle ZB Mo/A get my 20 or so wins and log cause RA is nothing but grind, vsing nothing but dif varrients of the same pvx build and those random PvE builds. I actually do welcome people attempting to bring in their own pvp builds though cause how do we move away from the meta if people only run the meta?

all in all to get anywhere in RA u must
Monk most of the time
Be one of the few lucky that get 1 decent monk
and realise 99.99 percent of the time your going to get complete nubs on your team and know how to compensate instead of just raging, 1 nub and 22 wins is better then going in and out for hours on end trying to find the dream team, only getting at most 7 wins.

eh wanna be good at RA? get a guild to sync RTL fame farm (guess u should call it glad farm) in RA since people cant even set up equip in RA now days...

Garet1337 · Sep 13, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

oh and for my above post, the WoH varriant of the hero battle ZB monk is great too, another Mo/A build, Mo/D if u know how to run it. And the amazing D/Mo rofl. I'ma go Mo/R with ranger stances for fun now since everyone is arguing mo/w is the only type of monk worth playing (wow my energy will suck). Yes sheild bash and balanced stance or benetties or disiplined may be better in ways but that doesn't mean they should be the only things over played.
Spirits in PvP are not bad. Life and recovery are amazing, idk about RA though. Back in the day caretakers charge rits were orgasmic.