Curse

Vecte · Jul 24, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

After coming back from a year and a half break, I finally decided to get back into RA, as it was one of my favorite things to do. I can honestly say, EVERYTHING on that list was true.

I played RA for a total of almost 4 hours straight yesterday, and the highest I went was 5 consecutive wins, and that was on my WS R/D(was Escape Scythe prior to my break, but that has since been nerfed), and that was because I was lucky enough to have a halfway competent team, with a decent Monk. Even with this tiny success, I was stuck on the sidelines due to melee shutdown. Honestly, trying to play ANY melee class was next to pointless.

Empathy, Empathy, Empathy, IS, IS, IS, Bsurge, Bsurge, Bsurge, Bflash, Bflash, Bflash. Every f***ing person was setup to shut down melee. I finally switched over to playing my Necro, then my Ele. I had moderate success with the Necro, but honestly, it was kinda boring to me. I got more enjoyment out of my Ele(Mind Blast build).

Btw, I used to have a firm belief that a team did not need a healer to be successful, but I actually think I have to retract this belief. People are to stupid these days to know how to properly target the opposing players, a healer of some sort is required to keep the retardedness up long enough to possibly have a break through in combat. Honestly, I don't understand why every Warrior in existence thinks they have to attack a Mo/W until they are dead.

EDIT: Oh yea, where did all of these Assassins come from? I'm not bashing anyone for playing an Assassin, but back when I was an RA regular, no one played Assassins, but it seems like they are more popular than Warriors these days.

Jeydra · Jul 24, 2010, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky333

You consider Empathy and IP "counters" and "some kind of defense"? Really?
Because if you play melee in RA, you'd realize it's neither, it's actually more akin to complete shutdown of a character's ability to do anything useful during an entire match. IP alone is a skill that can make a 4v4 fight into a 3v4 one since you can maintain it on a target for the entire match (At 14 curses, it has a 14sec duration, and 12sec recharge).

The sight of a hexed warrior standing somewhere in the corner doing absolutely nothing is far too common in RA to suggest that IP and Empathy aren't problematic in RA and are the necessary evils you present them as.

What i was saying is that when both teams have no monk, if one team has a physical and the other team has both IP and empathy (Not rare at all, some people actually go Me\N or N\Me just to take the other skill aswell), it's pretty much an auto-lose just as it would be when one team has a monk and the other doesn't.

Even when you have a monk IP is ridiculously difficult to handle since any player with half a brain will immediately cover it with PB. That is assuming you get the typical RA monk, on the super-rare occasions that you get one who knows enough to pre-veil your frontline (and cover it with vig too) it's not as much of an issue.
But we're not discussing general skill balance, i'm talking strictly about RA here, although anti-melee hexes spam can easily get out of control in GvG aswell.

If you think it's so easy, go into RA playing a N/Me with Insidious + Empathy and see how far it gets you. Sure, you'll win some games. But you'll also lose some, including games against physicals. I can guarantee that. Same applies to the BFlash + BSurge "super lame" build, or the Me/N Signet of Midnight + Plague Sending build, etc. The build has weaknesses you don't seem to recognize. Of course if you get a good team that synergizes with your build well and good, but then you win if you get a good team that synergizes with your build no matter what you're playing so yeah.

You said that in no Monk vs. no Monk teams, if one side has a physical and the other side has IP + Empathy, the team with the physical auto loses. Here's proof it's wrong. Consider the hypothetical case where both sides have a physical and both sides have IP + Empathy. Logically, both sides auto lose. That's contradictory. QED.

If you have a Monk with you IP and Empathy are a lot less dangerous ... you can attack through it, you just can't Frenzy.

It's sad some people think melee is impossible to play in RA when it's one of the best options available

pinkeyflower · Jul 24, 2010, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vecte

EDIT: Oh yea, where did all of these Assassins come from? I'm not bashing anyone for playing an Assassin, but back when I was an RA regular, no one played Assassins, but it seems like they are more popular than Warriors these days.

Sins=mindless spam class, so I guess people like spamming 1-2-3, 1-2-4

eldo · Jul 24, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Its summer and some people still care about guild wars, gz.

Reverend Dr · Jul 24, 2010, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You said that in no Monk vs. no Monk teams, if one side has a physical and the other side has IP + Empathy, the team with the physical auto loses. Here's proof it's wrong. Consider the hypothetical case where both sides have a physical and both sides

That is not how logic works.

Sirius Bsns · Jul 25, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

That is not how logic works.

It all depends on the Mesmer and Necro's other team members composition. If that mesmer and necro has a R/Mo with Apply Poison, then yes, they'll usually win vs. any melee-heavy team with no monk. And even if the melee-heavy team has a monk, the chances of winning are pretty slim if they know what they're doing and are good. Surely, it's always possible for melee-heavy teams to win vs. IP/Emp. teams, but the odds are usually very, VERY slim.

Missing HB · Jul 25, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Actually those restrictions they make for codex would be fun if applied to RA..

Sirius Bsns · Jul 25, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vecte

After coming back from a year and a half break, I finally decided to get back into RA, as it was one of my favorite things to do. I can honestly say, EVERYTHING on that list was true.

I played RA for a total of almost 4 hours straight yesterday, and the highest I went was 5 consecutive wins, and that was on my WS R/D(was Escape Scythe prior to my break, but that has since been nerfed), and that was because I was lucky enough to have a halfway competent team, with a decent Monk. Even with this tiny success, I was stuck on the sidelines due to melee shutdown. Honestly, trying to play ANY melee class was next to pointless.

Empathy, Empathy, Empathy, IS, IS, IS, Bsurge, Bsurge, Bsurge, Bflash, Bflash, Bflash. Every f***ing person was setup to shut down melee. I finally switched over to playing my Necro, then my Ele. I had moderate success with the Necro, but honestly, it was kinda boring to me. I got more enjoyment out of my Ele(Mind Blast build).

Btw, I used to have a firm belief that a team did not need a healer to be successful, but I actually think I have to retract this belief. People are to stupid these days to know how to properly target the opposing players, a healer of some sort is required to keep the retardedness up long enough to possibly have a break through in combat. Honestly, I don't understand why every Warrior in existence thinks they have to attack a Mo/W until they are dead.

EDIT: Oh yea, where did all of these Assassins come from? I'm not bashing anyone for playing an Assassin, but back when I was an RA regular, no one played Assassins, but it seems like they are more popular than Warriors these days.

LOL! I know exactly how that feels, and yet I still roll my Dev Hammer warrior and win alot. As long as I get a good monk, I can carry the entire team to 25 wins pretty easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Actually those restrictions they make for codex would be fun if applied to RA..

Fun for you, but I'd permanently quit Guild Wars 1 if that happened.

Vecte · Jul 28, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I have a new one for your list...

Any physical classes that are blind or hexed, and are unable to cause damage, are not focusing on one target.

Normally I don't say anything at all in RA, but this one REALLY irked me. I ended up in a game with a Mesmer, Assassin, Warrior(Me), and Paragon. I don't remember the class make up of the other team, but I do know they had TWO Bsurges. Needless to say, myself and the Assassin were shutdown the entire match, and I'm fairly certain the Paragon was as well. The Mesmer person, called a target, and we tried to attack them, but couldn't get anywhere due to the Bsurges. We all ended up getting called noobs by the Mesmer for not focusing on the target he called, even though we had been the entire match, we just couldn't hit them. I tried explaining to him that we were focusing, we just couldn't hit them because of Blind. Every time I tried to explain it, he would reply with, "No Focus

".

Jeydra · Aug 02, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Ever tried playing a BSurge and getting camped by a Ranger or Migraine Mesmer the entire match? It's about as fun as playing a Warrior and getting camped by a BSurge. Of course, such Rangers and Migraine Mesmers are less common because BSurges deal so much less damage than Warriors, who still somehow contrive to complain that people who attempt to counter the most dangerous profession in the game are somehow being lame ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

LOL! I know exactly how that feels, and yet I still roll my Dev Hammer warrior and win alot. As long as I get a good monk, I can carry the entire team to 25 wins pretty easily.

That's the point.

Sirius Bsns · Aug 02, 2010, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Ever tried playing a BSurge and getting camped by a Ranger or Migraine Mesmer the entire match? It's about as fun as playing a Warrior and getting camped by a BSurge. Of course, such Rangers and Migraine Mesmers are less common because BSurges deal so much less damage than Warriors, who still somehow contrive to complain that people who attempt to counter the most dangerous profession in the game are somehow being lame ...

That's the point.

See, playing an Axe Warrior takes far more effort and skill than a BSurger. All as BSurger has to do is 1-1-1-1-1 while an Axe Warrior actually has to use timing to DChop and hopefully stop it while blind more than half the time. Migraine Mesmers aren't as versatile, but they can be handy especially against BSurgers. However, RA's known for having 1-2 monk teams, so Migraine gets flushed down the toilet by preveil/curehex/spotless/CoP whenever they're paired up with a BSurger. Safe to say it becomes either a stalemate or a lame win for the two-monk team [esp. if they have like a good knock-locking assassin or kd warrior to push kills].

Bottom line, BSurge takes absolutely no skill, hence, it's a lame face-rolling build with incredibly rewarding results. The game in essence rewards unskilled play.

The day all of the mesmer's interrupts deal damage [when interruptions occur] is the day skill becomes more skill-rewarding. Rangers are my top choice in the smaller arenas simply because they can cause some kind of damage whereas mesmers fall a bit short.

Jeydra · Aug 02, 2010, 04:34 AM // 04:34

If only BSurge's blind lasted longer, then BSurgers would actually have more time to do something other than press 1-1-1-1-1. You might even be able to bring interrupts and get away with it. As it is, if you don't press 1-1-1-1-1, the Warrior unloads and you die

Well played.

PS: If interrupts = skill what are bots?

Sirius Bsns · Aug 02, 2010, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If only BSurge's blind lasted longer, then BSurgers would actually have more time to do something other than press 1-1-1-1-1. You might even be able to bring interrupts and get away with it. As it is, if you don't press 1-1-1-1-1, the Warrior unloads and you die

Well played.

PS: If interrupts = skill what are bots?

Unskilled Cheaters awaiting their Dhuum...?

Chucky333 · Aug 02, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Ever tried playing a BSurge and getting camped by a Ranger or Migraine Mesmer the entire match? It's about as fun as playing a Warrior and getting camped by a BSurge. Of course, such Rangers and Migraine Mesmers are less common because BSurges deal so much less damage than Warriors, who still somehow contrive to complain that people who attempt to counter the most dangerous profession in the game are somehow being lame ...

That's the point.

Counter =\ Imbalanced counter.
Bsurge in RA is not a "counter". Putting a blind on a warrior as he runs in to build adren with a spear and then maintaining it for the rest for the match to keep him permanently blind by clicking 1-1-1-1-1 is not a "counter", it's complete shutdown of a character to push it out of the match entirely.

No single skill\bar should be able to completely make a character useless and make a match 3v4 or worse, in the right conditions (no monk, bad ranger, mesmer with no to 1 interrupts - all extremely common in RA), a BSurger can do that. Same goes for the empathy\IP spammers.

Vecte · Aug 02, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

That's the point.

Despite what you may think, it actually takes some skill to play a Dev Hammer warrior, or a Shock Axe warrior. You can't expect to have any warrior roll up with the same bar, and it be an auto-win for them. I laugh in the face at the huge amount of pathetic warriors in RA, most of which can't even qknock, and some who are Dev Hammer, and are carrying Shock on their bar.

However, a BSurge ele is the exact opposite, just spam Bsurge and profit.

urania · Aug 02, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Luckily, things such as "good bbots" became extinct years ago.
seriously.

Playing Is Srs Bsns · Aug 03, 2010, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

See, playing an Axe Warrior takes far more effort and skill than a BSurger. All as BSurger has to do is 1-1-1-1-1 while an Axe Warrior actually has to use timing to DChop and hopefully stop it while blind more than half the time. Migraine Mesmers aren't as versatile, but they can be handy especially against BSurgers. However, RA's known for having 1-2 monk teams, so Migraine gets flushed down the toilet by preveil/curehex/spotless/CoP whenever they're paired up with a BSurger. Safe to say it becomes either a stalemate or a lame win for the two-monk team [esp. if they have like a good knock-locking assassin or kd warrior to push kills].

Bottom line, BSurge takes absolutely no skill, hence, it's a lame face-rolling build with incredibly rewarding results. The game in essence rewards unskilled play.

The day all of the mesmer's interrupts deal damage [when interruptions occur] is the day skill becomes more skill-rewarding. Rangers are my top choice in the smaller arenas simply because they can cause some kind of damage whereas mesmers fall a bit short.

U telling me Bsurge takes no skill? Bad people spam it on recharge and get it diverted/dshotted. Use it before warrior releases adrenaline. Useless to prevent wars autoattack dmg.

Also monks/necs/rangers run condi remove.

Regulus X · Aug 03, 2010, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playing Is Srs Bsns

U telling me Bsurge takes no skill? Bad people spam it on recharge and get it diverted/dshotted. Use it before warrior releases adrenaline. Useless to prevent wars autoattack dmg.

Also monks/necs/rangers run condi remove.

In 4v4, spamming it prevents build-up of that adrenaline while your monk or team gets slaughtered by the opposing team's E-Surge/Domination Mesmer, Dev Hammer Warrior, etc.. No matter how you really look at it, the spammability and duration of BSurge/Flash takes away much of the skillful and tactful use in the skill. If the blind duration were chopped in half, THEN is when I'd consider those two skills requiring much more skill, and I'd actually commend those using BSurge/Flash with proper timing such as you've implied. Until then though, BSurge = 1-1-1-1-1 in my book.

Vecte · Aug 03, 2010, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playing Is Srs Bsns

U telling me Bsurge takes no skill? Bad people spam it on recharge and get it diverted/dshotted. Use it before warrior releases adrenaline. Useless to prevent wars autoattack dmg.

Also monks/necs/rangers run condi remove.

If the Ele is absolutely retarded, then it will get diverted, but not even some of the dumbest ele's will let that happen. Lol at Condition removal, have you not seen the CD on Bsurge? Have you not heard of 40/40 sets? Have you not heard of condition stacking? Also, we are talking about RA, which means you pretty much have to have a Monk for steady condition removal.

Also, every Bsurge I have ever run into, carries Bflash as well. A Ranger may be able to Dshot the Bsurge if he is lucky, but the Ele still has Bflash, most of the time. For the most part, the Ranger would have to camp the Ele, just to stop Bsurge.

You can try and justify it taking skill to use, but plain and simple, just about anyone with general pvp knowledge can take a Bsurge build and be successful.

Jeydra · Aug 04, 2010, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Unskilled Cheaters awaiting their Dhuum...?

You're kidding yourself if you think Dhuum got all the bots ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky333

Bsurge in RA is not a "counter". Putting a blind on a warrior as he runs in to build adren with a spear and then maintaining it for the rest for the match to keep him permanently blind by clicking 1-1-1-1-1 is not a "counter", it's complete shutdown of a character to push it out of the match entirely.

No single skill\bar should be able to completely make a character useless and make a match 3v4 or worse, in the right conditions (no monk, bad ranger, mesmer with no to 1 interrupts - all extremely common in RA), a BSurger can do that. Same goes for the empathy\IP spammers.

What about Migraine Mesmers and BHA Rangers who camp one target? It's complete shutdown of that character to push it out of the match entirely, and that character is degen'ing to death as well.

Don't tell me that BSurge removes a character from the game and makes it 3v4. It's not able to, even pre-nerf. A 7s blind with 3/4s cast time and 4s cooldown - versus 40% blind reduction or removal of any kind, you cannot keep someone blind permanently, especially if that someone has Shock / Iron Palm / whatever that can KD you close to blind running out. Claiming Empathy shuts down melee completely is silly, and same goes for Insidious. They deal damage, but they don't stop the melee character from dealing damage. You're kidding yourself if you believe that casting Empathy on a Warrior removes him from the match for its duration. Blind is an on/off switch to Warriors, but not Empathy / Insidious.

Tell me true, have you ever played a blindbot in RA? What do you know about the build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vecte

If the Ele is absolutely retarded, then it will get diverted, but not even some of the dumbest ele's will let that happen. Lol at Condition removal, have you not seen the CD on Bsurge? Have you not heard of 40/40 sets? Have you not heard of condition stacking? Also, we are talking about RA, which means you pretty much have to have a Monk for steady condition removal.

Also, every Bsurge I have ever run into, carries Bflash as well. A Ranger may be able to Dshot the Bsurge if he is lucky, but the Ele still has Bflash, most of the time. For the most part, the Ranger would have to camp the Ele, just to stop Bsurge.

You can try and justify it taking skill to use, but plain and simple, just about anyone with general pvp knowledge can take a Bsurge build and be successful.

You claim that any good Elementalist doesn't get BSurge Diverted, yet you also claimed that good Axe Warriors will DChop BSurge. What happens if good Elementalists face good Axe Warriors? Will BSurge be disrupted or not? Inherent contradictions don't help your case.

Have you seen the cooldown on BSurge? What do you think it is? What about the cooldown on Mending Touch? How do you condition stack vs. Mending touch? Do you camp 40/40 set when good Warriors facing BSurge is going to camp the BSurger nonstop (especially if the BSurge spams blind on him)? Do you camp 40/40 set even when your opponent is blind?

You claim that the Ranger would have to camp the Ele just to stop BSurge, well the Ele has to camp the Warrior just to stop him from dealing damage - what's your point?

You claim that every BSurger you've seen also carries BFlash. Do you have any idea how vulnerable BSurge + BFlash is? What kind of bar do you want to run that has both, has enough energy to cast both, and is still somewhat useful? Can you create such a bar? Hint: if you dare bring BSurge and BFlash you're almost useless against teams without anyone to blind (or teams with only one physical + a Monk with Spotless Soul). You might as well be a Mending Wammo. BSurge is already one-dimensional enough. And you're claiming that you can "be successful" with BSurge.

Have you ever tried loading up a BSurge Ele and playing it in RA? How often do you win, compared to when you play a Warrior?

Why do you think BSurge Eles spam 1-1-1-1-1? It's not because they're bad. It's because they have no choice. If they dare not spam 1-1-1-1-1 the Warrior unloads and they die. Do you know how much damage a full chain does? How much Dev Hammer -> Crushing -> Overbearing Smash -> Yeti Smash does? Or how badly Dazed affects a caster? Or how deadly it is if you get KD'ed on BSurge, especially if you camp 40/40 set against "blinded" foes?

Why do you think good blindbots don't exist anymore in RA? Simple enough reason: good blindbots know that blindbots don't work anymore and stopped playing the build.