Curse

urania · May 09, 2010, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Personally I don't feel I owe the community(read: bunch of raging teenagers) anything. I play the formats I feel like however I want and whenever I want.

even if it means screwing over 3 other people?

i mean, often enough ive been in situations when i had over 20 wins and a teammate leaves and i get a frenzy ele with a sword/axe or some other trash like that, intentionally screw people over.

im not saying thats what YOU are doing, but the very same mentality applies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

On the other hand I realise and accept the fact that other people have other priorities. I don't rage at people who don't bring res, don't kite, run bad builds, go afk, resign, leave or simply play bad. After the match is over I map out and they can go about their business and get a new possibly more dedicated player than me. However, if you /report me for "leeching" or rage in AC(at me or anyone else) chances are I will map out with 1 sec left on the timer.

the irony is that its often the synchers that report you like that. or just a group of very stupid players (who can be found in abudance in ra..)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You want to try killing me solo? I'll even tell you now exactly what I'm going to bring. Let's see: WoH. Patient Spirit. Two stances. Cure Hex. Guardian. Dismiss Condition. Sig Rejuv. There're lots of variations of this, but they all result in the same thing. The chance of you killing me 1v1 is zero. It just won't happen.

it shouldnt either. but RA isnt 1v1, in case you havent noticed.
you almost sound like an angry wammo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Then you'll tell me "but hey, if you got a good team you can kill teams with good Monks". Of course you can! One player may be unable to kill a good Monk solo, but two players can. So what? Did you really think one Monk can hold off two players indefinitely? I hope not. But one Monk can hold off two players for long enough so his team can kill the other. Having a Monk in RA is a huge advantage and if you know it.

barely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

1) RA, not GvG. Also, wrong. B-surge is fairly mediocre in RA if you're looking for long 25 streaks. It's amazingly strong against particular team compositions, but it's a gimmick whose main purpose in RA is to steamroll bad players and piss them off like nothing else.

2) I absolutely guarantee you a Bsurge will not beat a ranger 1 on 1. You can only cast-cancel so much, pal. And let's not forget a ranger can cast cancel as well.

Having a monk back you up with guardian isn't really a good argument.

^sums up pretty much everything.
the only setup where b surge might work well to a certain extent is a good w+r combination.
but good w+r setup is a 25-wins combination in 90% of the cases as long as the 4th player isnt something that has below 500 hp, suicides or is generally asking to get trained to death. or is just an accessory to your team (most typically, a wammo).

Sankt Hallvard · May 09, 2010, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

even if it means screwing over 3 other people?

i mean, often enough ive been in situations when i had over 20 wins and a teammate leaves and i get a frenzy ele with a sword/axe or some other trash like that, intentionally screw people over.

I don't know how you define "screwing other people over". I hit "enter RA/pray for good team" button and when I end up with something I don't like I want to map out as soon as possible. Due to at least a minimum of decency and the fear for dishonor status I limit this to an "hourly ragequit" when the team is especially bad/grief build.

I have no idea how many wins my teammates have obviously but if I suspect they have 20 wins I will finish that round and map out after. But you know I won't map out on you if I ever run into you in RA.

However, if I run into "Jeydra Eveningstar" or some other guru schmuck I will play the round and map out with 1 sec left on timer.

icedwhitemocha · May 09, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

To me, RA is unplayable without syncing since they merged districts. I dunno how you guys do it.

Jeydra · May 10, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

it shouldnt either. but RA isnt 1v1, in case you havent noticed.
you almost sound like an angry wammo.

I do indeed. I was angry when I made that post. But it's still a fact that Monks cannot be beaten 1v1, and that teams with Monks >>>>> teams without it. Fact. Small wonder why people keep raging teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

However, if I run into "Jeydra Eveningstar" or some other guru schmuck I will play the round and map out with 1 sec left on timer.

Do that to me and I'll make sure to reciprocate.

PS: I believe a good BSurge will kill a good Ranger unless Ranger has Troll Unguent. Self-heals mean a lot in 1v1s, and BSurges has Aura of Restoration; also BSurge's cooldown is shorter than Mend Touch's. It's a long fight either way though and for certain a good Ranger will severely inhibit a BSurge regardless.

Corporeal Ghost · May 10, 2010, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

I agree the old aoe on enchant is pretty weird in random formats, it however worked fantastically in organized play back then.
A warrior frenzied, you hit him with a lightning orb and had the monk therefore prot him up, usually with prot spirit, and you now had aoe blind on him for 20 seconds.

It rewarded being smart enough to take advantage of situations such as that one.

Agreed, it rewards intelligent play, and perhaps my "improved version" dumbs it down a little. It's still pretty random, though. And in my experience the enchant clause was coming off Aegis about 95% of the time. Unless they had Conjure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Or to actually look between the frontline on a spike to see if one of them happened to have an enchant instead of just blinding the nearest one.

I guess the goal is to make this situation more common, regardless of what the trigger is. Maybe if you catch an attack skill? Check for a deep wound on nearby foes? There's all sorts of triggers you could use to make it less annoying outside of the presumably-intended function of catching spikes.

Howsabout if the AoE triggers the next time the target swings at (not hits) an enchanted foe? Punish people for wailing on protted targets even more than they normally are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

RA, not GvG. Also, wrong. B-surge is fairly mediocre in RA if you're looking for long 25 streaks. It's amazingly strong against particular team compositions, but...

Absolutely right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

the only setup where b surge might work well to a certain extent is a good w+r combination. but good w+r setup is a 25-wins combination in 90% of the cases as long as the 4th player

There are others. In general, you just want to high-offense bars in your "free" slots. Which isn't to say that BSurge is ever optimal there, but a heads-up BSurge with an Orb or a Gale or even a Draw could make a sizeable contribution if he's got enough damage to carry him through dual-backline matches. However, it's very rare that you'll get TWO solid damage-dealers in RA. Even one is pretty questionable since everyone wants to run necrotrash and blind eles to help their bad monks limp along, so I'd probably just roll the damage myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You want to try killing me solo? I'll even tell you now exactly what I'm going to bring. Let's see: WoH. Patient Spirit. Two stances. Cure Hex. Guardian. Dismiss Condition. Sig Rejuv. There're lots of variations of this, but they all result in the same thing. The chance of you killing me 1v1 is zero. It just won't happen.

RA is supposedly 4v4. It actually usually boils down to something closer to 1.5v1.5 with some lifeless bodies thrown in, but the lifeless bodies make a huge difference. Pretty much any idiot with a keyboard can keep himself alive 1v1 with some stances and a Patient Spirit, but if you throw in three targets who don't kite, have crappy armor, and just generally take large quantities of damage, it becomes much easier to force kills. The key to breaking most RA monks as of the last time I played was actually to ignore them entirely unless they liked to blow their stances for no reason. If you just blow up their teammates, they effectively have 4-6 skill bars, and if you're careful with your damage packets and deep wound timing, many of them don't even realize the target is about to die until it's well out of saving range.

In general, though, yes the current monk bar is too powerful, and it rewards sub-par play too much.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

To me, RA is unplayable without syncing since they merged districts. I dunno how you guys do it.

My friendlist is rarely active enough to sync, even if I wanted to, so it's pretty rare that I play at all. But the principles hold the same as they did for pre-merged districts, except aspects of them are amplified--I am even less likely to have a second intelligent player, for example, so I have to polarize my play even more. Offense is built to dismantle an enemy team single-handedly. Backline is built to fully utilize that rare player that knows what he's doing--I usually run dual hex removal and a draw, or perhaps a DShot. In-between bars that are reliant on having teammates do something...are pretty much unplayable.

muhahaha · May 10, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

In general, though, yes the current monk bar is too powerful, and it rewards sub-par play too much.

Sorry, I do not agree with this at all. Current monk bars are mediocre at best. 4s +24AL Disciplined stance, 125+125 WoH and 10 energy ZBs with 1/4cast SoA were strong.

Its just that they've decreased some power creep (...old LC... old Weaken Knees...old PR...old sin spikes with 1/4th impale... etcetc) so monks actually have a chance to keep people alive without a secondary support.

AtomicMew · May 10, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

PS: I believe a good BSurge will kill a good Ranger unless Ranger has Troll Unguent. Self-heals mean a lot in 1v1s, and BSurges has Aura of Restoration; also BSurge's cooldown is shorter than Mend Touch's. It's a long fight either way though and for certain a good Ranger will severely inhibit a BSurge regardless.

Going off on a pretty irrelevant tangent, but:

I think you're underestimating what a good ranger can do. Mend touch cooldown is pretty irrelevant. As soon as ranger sees you casting bsurge, ranger is already casting mend touch. Which means the ranger has ~5 seconds to WTFPWN you. Sure you can cast cancel bsurge, but likewise, the ranger can cast-cancel mtouch. Who's energy do you think will last longer? And even if you do manage to fake him out, you still have to avoid 2-3 interrupts. All in all, it looks pretty grim for the ele, IMO.

Sankt Hallvard · May 10, 2010, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

In general, though, yes the current monk bar is too powerful, and it rewards sub-par play too much.

Much unlike SW sins you mean? Or hexers? Or bsurge for that matter?

I didn't bother to say anything earlier as I thought it was pretty obvious.. When I say it's easy to kill a monk I never had in mind a 1v1 situation. Like you say the best way to kill a monk is to kill his team. Especially when they don't even bring guardian. Sit on that mesmer, stomp the necro and lineback their sin/war. Not only do you dish out more dmg you also prevent them from pressuring your monk in turn letting him pay more attention to drawing your conds and hexes and the cycle goes on.

Quote:

In-between bars that are reliant on having teammates do something...are pretty much unplayable.

To each his own I guess. Personally I just can't stand running a war in RA, the anti-measures are just too frequent and your own good support is too rare. I'd lose my mind between each good run. Now I'm taking on the role as that handy support guy or toolbox waiting for that one brave melee and a semi-competent monk to carry us. And even then the last guy has to be something that doesn't like to tank or sac. It's an unforgiving place.

*lemming* · May 10, 2010, 03:44 AM // 03:44

PM each other if you want to set up a 1v1.

ZainAhmed · May 10, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

This is my experience with different classes against Bsurge in RA:

Mesmer - Divert BSurge. Power block or any other rupt on BSurge. Guess what? My team has no damage and someone leaves or my monk gets served somehow. No FF necro but a vampiric spirit and one who will try to run away from the monk on our team for some reason.

Monk - Melee yelling the whole time about BSurge while attacking wammo or just standing there. Sin standing in aoe while another ele blinds him because he's afk now after seeing he's useless OR all my melee is on the ele and are getting blinded at the same time

. Mesmer is running some spam build that has no effect on BSurge or anyone else for that matter. Ranger is running Magebane and trying to rupt healing sig on wammo. Necro keeps sacrificing to death.

Warrior - Build adrenaline. Waiting while BSurge starts the spam and for removal of blind and stand close to BSurge to kd his ass. He blocked it OR i got rupted OR good old blind once again. Mesmer is not listening to a word i say. Ranger is trying to use ether feast on monk. It's easier with dchop but you need the right timing to guess when they bsurge.

Sin - BSurge is scared shitless and wont stop casting BSurge on me...whole match.

Derv - Who plays derv? Wounding strike spammers? Avatar or noob?

Ritualist - Sight beyond sight for Rt/P.

(yes i still play sprit str)

Para - Never played in RA. Useless class in RA imo.

Necro - always do my job when running FF but still getting good teams is hard and if my ff gets disabled somehow then my melee becomes useless. Still, by far the best way to counter BSurge but they seem rare these days.

Ranger - The best profession ever but sadly i get around 200 avg ping and, if you haven't guessed, that's not good ping for rupters but I think that is the avg ping amongst players afaik. Yes I keep my hands on Mending Touch all day and it's ok but if you can't rupt BSurge then it's no use really.

Ele - BSurge and win.

Yes, this is all true. Sad experience but true.

kedde · May 10, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

To me, RA is unplayable without syncing since they merged districts. I dunno how you guys do it.

QFE.
It was somewhat decent back then, fun at times but still mostly frustrating.
Now it's not even entertaining enough to waste 15 mins in. Hell, I'll rather afk in ab or tombs while watching something else and checking for pm's.

-Pluto- · May 10, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

the reason all these ppl sync is because there is no TA

lol?

Part of the reason TA died and was removed was because too many people were syncing already instead of doing TA. People have always sync'd because syncing is easy glads. If people really despise RA enough to not actually play RA the way it's supposed to be played, then they should go do something else instead of ruining it for everyone else rather than making bullshit excuses.

urania · May 10, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

lol?

Part of the reason TA died and was removed was because too many people were syncing already instead of doing TA. People have always sync'd because syncing is easy glads. If people really despise RA enough to not actually play RA the way it's supposed to be played, then they should go do something else instead of ruining it for everyone else rather than making bullshit excuses.

believe it or not, but all the people who regularly TAed and havent quit playing have synched ever since TA was removed.

RhanoctJocosa · May 11, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

lol?

Part of the reason TA died and was removed was because too many people were syncing already instead of doing TA. People have always sync'd because syncing is easy glads. If people really despise RA enough to not actually play RA the way it's supposed to be played, then they should go do something else instead of ruining it for everyone else rather than making bullshit excuses.

Pretty sure TA was removed because by the end it was a total shit-fest. Also, TA was much faster glads than RA, are you serious? 100% of the people I know who sync would much rather play TA, but still want their next rank so they sync.

I think people cry too much. It's RA, it's been a joke since day 1. Koreans have been syncing since day 1. Nothing has or ever will change. Accept it idk.

Krill · May 11, 2010, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

If people really despise RA enough to not actually play RA the way it's supposed to be played, then they should go do something else instead of ruining it for everyone else rather than making bullshit excuses.

Your argument is perfectly valid, but ultimately good runs in RA when you're not syncing is a roll of the dice until you get a decent team and stomp all the bad ones. There's rarely, if ever a truly good match in RA that could go either way. Syncing simply goes strait to the stomping part, even if it is a bit like winning the special olympics.

axe · May 11, 2010, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Your argument is perfectly valid, but ultimately good runs in RA when you're not syncing is a roll of the dice until you get a decent team and stomp all the bad ones. There's rarely, if ever a truly good match in RA that could go either way. Syncing simply goes strait to the stomping part, even if it is a bit like winning the special olympics.

This is extremely true, but the problem with syncing still remains, when you FINALLY get on that good team that can go 25 wins, and THEN you run into a synced team, that is the problem. We all know how RA works, syncing still breaks it any way you want to look at it.

RhanoctJocosa · May 11, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

you realise most sync teams are just high ranked glads who byob + monk? it's pretty random... i mean you'd probably get just as mad losing to a sync than to a perfectly balanced team where all 4 know what they are doing.

ps lol @ summary of RA in spring = sync. XD

Krill · May 11, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

you realise most sync teams are just high ranked glads who byob + monk?

I realize that, but don't see the fun in repeatably beating up bad random teams for glad points. The result is completely predictable.

Del · May 11, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

I realize that, but don't see the fun in repeatably beating up bad random teams for glad points. The result is completely predictable.

the point is, they only care about the title, they could care less that they're pretty much making RA a pain for anyone else.

Bobby2 · May 12, 2010, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

the point is, they only care about the title, they could care less that they're pretty much making RA a pain for anyone else.

Bar the notion that you'd have to be a bit of a masochist to play 'traditional' RA in the first place.