Curse

Greedy Gus · May 06, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

Any decent ranger, mesmer or even monk will absolutely destroy the effectiveness of bsurge. Bsurge is not nearly as good as people complaining make it out to be. I feel like you are just QQing.

Wow that sounds easy. Bsurge has been a cornerstone character in the ele build that has won 2 of the last 3 monthlies, but I suppose they all got lucky and avoided the 'decent' rangers & monks who would have destroyed that effectiveness. Regardless of the army of "ez dshot/divert/draw it" people here, bsurge remains one of the best chars to bring into RA if you're looking for wins & streaks.

If you're going to allow one hypothetical side to be good with interrupts & removals, then you allow the hypothetical bsurge to have a brain for 40/40 set usage, unpredictable timing, and redundant team defense or prots on him to deal with camping. I'd wager that I've dchopped more bsurges per game played than almost anyone, but that's not how you debate game balance. Super powered elites like bsurge that are worth heavily building around are not desirable from a game balance standpoint and display classic power creep.

kedde · May 06, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Well, you could somewhat counter that argument with the fact that vr ran 2 bsurges in the monthly, or the last one I forget, and yet still lost to a build with mostly physical damage.

But yeah, it is stupid in ra, and in general too powerful, but you can't truly attest balance to a place where nothing ever goes right.

Corporeal Ghost · May 07, 2010, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Blinding Surge is extremely powerful, and sometimes disproportionately so in RA, but the fact of the matter is, you're pretty much destroyed by anyone who chooses to bring a bar that does nothing but counter yours and sit on you all game anyway. If the BSurge is trying to maximize his usefulness by either doing damage or shutting more than one person down, you usually get a window to get something done (usually either DChop him or blow him up). If you're a lone physical and he's just going to BSurge you on recharge, you're pretty much boned unless his team has at least two people doing nothing and you've got a monk who likes to Draw, but at the same time, he's not really doing anything either if he's just blinding you on recharge. Although odds are you're carrying your team since it's RA, so maybe he's winning.

Is BSurge itself overpowered? Marginally--at least, if you're comparing it to the rest of modern Guild Wars rather than its Prophecies-only little brother. If you took away the AoE, it would probably be fine. If you took away Pious Concentration and/or the insane amounts of energy the bar can gain, I can't really see it being problematic outside of RA, pretty much ever. But that pretty much demands an overhaul of the entire skill system, so fixing the AoE is probably better.

The non-conditional AoE is too strong, but enchanted is a weird conditional for a blind. It does benefit a heads-up player, but it's kind of random. I think something like "the next time that foe attacks" would be better. That way it still hits multiples if you're timing it well on converges, but it doesn't just randomly destroy people running past each other if you're smashing it on recharge.

As for RA in general...part of the problem is everyone playing to not lose instead of to win. When you're setting up, try playing offense instead of helping your team limp to five. You get a lower win percentage, but longer, more frequent, and faster streaks, which generally leads to both more faction and more glad points, as well as less desire to do violent things to your immediate surroundings.

Mad Lord of Milk · May 07, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

rune of clarity + "i can see clearly now" wait 5 seconds bash their faces in with dev hammer and yeti smash

Terrible Surgeon · May 07, 2010, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

i'm sorry but the sync teams who spank you in RA are the same ones who would spank you in TA. the reason all these ppl sync is because there is no TA. with sync you can make upwards of 100 glad points a day, meaning the old TA players who want their next glad title can get it without enduring the 3-4 glad points a day you get with FDS warriors and Mo/Rt's.

also, i don't know what syncs u face, but the ones i roll/face are usually nicely balanced because everyone's kinda over running shitter bars. ie W R N Mo or stuff like W E Me Mo. i had a pretty fun W R N Mo mirror match last night between 2 syncs and it was the closest feeling to TA in a while.

the reason you fight those builds is because they are strong templates (well idk about the earth ele.. personally i think it's bad). if everyone was running horrible, weak bars with poor synergy wouldn't you put together stronger bars that worked well???

QQ more please

You're abusing a system meant to be random and your justification is to get titles and TA is gone...sounds like you're the one crying....

RhanoctJocosa · May 07, 2010, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Except I'm getting glads and having fun. No crying here lol??

ZainAhmed · May 07, 2010, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerf Me Haha

Good solution, too bad many RA players can't do it.

Exactly I mean why wold i even be here if you could GET dependable players on your team. You can't....THEY TOOK AWAY TA incase everyone forgot...

The Savage I · May 07, 2010, 06:01 AM // 06:01

empathy :'(((

urania · May 07, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

i dont think ive made 25 wins with a bsurge in the last year or two of RAing. Hexes, on the other side, gave me quite a lot of 25 wins...I dont run cond removal in RA and yet I think ive lost but a handful of games tops because of that (ie. losing to b surge or SoM plague sending mesmer) and they were long up-to-8-min matches.

ZainAhmed · May 07, 2010, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I just think that a newbie can pick up Bsurge and go on an easy win streak just as an experienced player with Bsurge could altough matches might be long and drawn out but winning is easier. yes 123.

Now a noobie warrior can't do that with defy pain and mending touch or whatever.

And is it just me or does a wammo always show up when i get the right monk...then the monk leaves -_-

Sankt Hallvard · May 07, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

I just think that a newbie can pick up Bsurge and go on an easy win streak just as an experienced player with Bsurge could altough matches might be long and drawn out but winning is easier. yes 123.

Bsurge gives great results for how easy it is to play. YES. It still requires skill to be more effective and can be quite demanding vs better opposition. Aside from being extremely annoying when you melee I really don't see why this skill is being singled out. For the umpteenth time I can mention hexes in general which by far overpower a crappy ele bar with 1 good elite.

Quote:

And is it just me or does a wammo always show up when i get the right monk...then the monk leaves -_-

Dude. Try playing a paragon, people shun you like the plague. Interestingly enough it has the effect of making the "semi-good, torment shield-wielding" players ragequit. The "pve noobs" don't know the term "ragequit" and will stick around. However, the truly good players(by RA standards anyway) will quickly realise I'm not trolling and will stick around. I kinda like how that works out even though it goes 200 restarts between each good and fun group.

kedde · May 07, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Blinding Surge is extremely powerful, and sometimes disproportionately so in RA, but the fact of the matter is, you're pretty much destroyed by anyone who chooses to bring a bar that does nothing but counter yours and sit on you all game anyway. If the BSurge is trying to maximize his usefulness by either doing damage or shutting more than one person down, you usually get a window to get something done (usually either DChop him or blow him up). If you're a lone physical and he's just going to BSurge you on recharge, you're pretty much boned unless his team has at least two people doing nothing and you've got a monk who likes to Draw, but at the same time, he's not really doing anything either if he's just blinding you on recharge. Although odds are you're carrying your team since it's RA, so maybe he's winning.

Is BSurge itself overpowered? Marginally--at least, if you're comparing it to the rest of modern Guild Wars rather than its Prophecies-only little brother. If you took away the AoE, it would probably be fine. If you took away Pious Concentration and/or the insane amounts of energy the bar can gain, I can't really see it being problematic outside of RA, pretty much ever. But that pretty much demands an overhaul of the entire skill system, so fixing the AoE is probably better.

The non-conditional AoE is too strong, but enchanted is a weird conditional for a blind. It does benefit a heads-up player, but it's kind of random. I think something like "the next time that foe attacks" would be better. That way it still hits multiples if you're timing it well on converges, but it doesn't just randomly destroy people running past each other if you're smashing it on recharge.

As for RA in general...part of the problem is everyone playing to not lose instead of to win. When you're setting up, try playing offense instead of helping your team limp to five. You get a lower win percentage, but longer, more frequent, and faster streaks, which generally leads to both more faction and more glad points, as well as less desire to do violent things to your immediate surroundings.

I agree the old aoe on enchant is pretty weird in random formats, it however worked fantastically in organized play back then.
A warrior frenzied, you hit him with a lightning orb and had the monk therefore prot him up, usually with prot spirit, and you now had aoe blind on him for 20 seconds.

It rewarded being smart enough to take advantage of situations such as that one. Or to actually look between the frontline on a spike to see if one of them happened to have an enchant instead of just blinding the nearest one.

Jeydra · May 09, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

RA is so unbearable now ... and it's not because I get bad teammates or whatever. I've only played RA sporadically after I reached G6, but the last few times I went in I could barely stop raging. It's not because I get bad teammates. I'm G6. I've gotten lots of bad teammates before and I can cope with them. The major problem is that there are so many players who ragequit / Frenzy into Empathy / resign / go AFK once they see they have no Monk on their team. What the ****?? So Monks are horribly overpowered now and making 10 wins without a Monk is harder than ever. So what?? Intentionally losing once you see you have no Monk is even worse than leeching. Did I mention that there are lots of players now who don't care about leeching? I even had this guy tell me that he's going to leave the next game just to ensure I play the next game 3v4 and lose, and then PM me and say "OH ****, NO DISHONOR!!" Abuse of the system, but who cares?

This is utterly ridiculous, and yet I bet there'll be other people who tell me "because RA is srs bsns", as though I've not seen that line a million times already and that this particular spelling of "serious business" somehow makes whoever says it cool.

I used to make it a point to add all these game spoilers to my friend's list and make sure never to Monk for them again, but there're now so many of them that I can't fit them all on my list.

ANet, please kill the root of this problem and NERF MONKS. Back in the day Orison healed 60 health for 5 energy, today Patient Spirit heals twice that much for 5 energy and WoH heals more than three times as much for 5 energy. Boon Prots may have been godly, but they were still possible to attrition and couldn't carry stances; today's Monks are so sturdy that it's impossible to kill one alone even if you know exactly what 8 skills he's bringing. Anyone who's played RA regularly will be able to tell you that three years ago it was a lot easier to beat teams with Monks without one of your own. Difficult, but doable. Today if you're against a good Monk without one of your own, there's no way you can win without a massive - massive! - skill advantage. Please nerf Monks!

Rant / whine / laugh whatever.

Sankt Hallvard · May 09, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

ANet, please kill the root of this problem and NERF MONKS.

Are you trolling today?

If it's hard to kill a monk "u r not doin it right". The only reason it should be hard to kill a monk is because he's surrounded by 3 frikkin anti-melee hexers. Monks don't even bring guardian anymore.

Oh no, people are leaving your team? And this is "worse than leeching"? I guess people running non-wiki bars are even worse then? You can't go around expecting people to play by your flute in a random arena. Some people like to sacrifice most of their dmg to be able to tank more dmg expecting no monk. Others play for the long streaks and will run a regular wikibar just waiting for a monk. Maybe if the glad pts were not cumulative(ie 1 pt for every 5 wins) you might see teams without a healer making a go for 5 wins more often, with the current system there is NO WAY you get 25 without a good monk and otherwise decent team.

Personally I don't feel I owe the community(read: bunch of raging teenagers) anything. I play the formats I feel like however I want and whenever I want. At the moment I will only stay in teams that have: 1) good monk 2) decent warrior 3) semi-competent 3rd person. Obviously I spend my hourly ragequit as often as permitted and I don't take all matches as seriously. This sometimes gets me reported(by punks like you) and since I've already used my ragequit I end up with the hex. I get my punishment and have to troll guru or obs some gvg for 10 minutes.

On the other hand I realise and accept the fact that other people have other priorities. I don't rage at people who don't bring res, don't kite, run bad builds, go afk, resign, leave or simply play bad. After the match is over I map out and they can go about their business and get a new possibly more dedicated player than me. However, if you /report me for "leeching" or rage in AC(at me or anyone else) chances are I will map out with 1 sec left on the timer.

So, in conclusion - RA is srs bsns, let people do whatever the fugk they want to do.

Jeydra · May 09, 2010, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Halvard

If it's hard to kill a monk "u r not doin it right". The only reason it should be hard to kill a monk is because he's surrounded by 3 frikkin anti-melee hexers. Monks don't even bring guardian anymore.

You want to try killing me solo? I'll even tell you now exactly what I'm going to bring. Let's see: WoH. Patient Spirit. Two stances. Cure Hex. Guardian. Dismiss Condition. Sig Rejuv. There're lots of variations of this, but they all result in the same thing. The chance of you killing me 1v1 is zero. It just won't happen.

Then you'll tell me "but hey, if you got a good team you can kill teams with good Monks". Of course you can! One player may be unable to kill a good Monk solo, but two players can. So what? Did you really think one Monk can hold off two players indefinitely? I hope not. But one Monk can hold off two players for long enough so his team can kill the other. Having a Monk in RA is a huge advantage and if you know it.

Rest of your post is basically saying, "guys, I'm an asshole, but you're an asshole for thinking I'm an asshole". No comment beyond that.

PS: Oh wait, I just thought of this relevant thing that happened to me when I used to JQ regularly. I had an ally say, "guys, I'm going AFK. Please don't report me for leeching". Lol, that's what you're doing.

Sankt Hallvard · May 09, 2010, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Is this when I post the picture with retarded kid running accompanied with the text: "Arguing on teh interwebz is like competing in special olympics. You're still retarded"?

Because what you're saying is that a team with a monk is better than a team without a monk. Well duh?

And sure I may be an asshole but certainly no more of an asshole than the rest of the playerbase. Just because YOU want to waste your time on a bad team fighting a better team with monk does not mean everybody else wants to.

Leeching? I thought that was a technical term reserved for people who intentionally try to get a free ride on others' expense to obtain some reward. No one in their right mind would enter RA for the sake of the measly baltha faction. If people are AFK they probably have a reason for it, cut them some slack and don't be so righteouss with your little power tool /report.

Del · May 09, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Let's see: WoH. Patient Spirit. Two stances. Cure Hex. Guardian. Dismiss Condition. Sig Rejuv. There're lots of variations of this, but they all result in the same thing. The chance of you killing me 1v1 is zero. It just won't happen.

i think it's funny how you seem to actually believe this.

Jeydra · May 09, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

You want to try? I'll bet you 100k you can't do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Halvard

And sure I may be an asshole but certainly no more of an asshole than the rest of the playerbase. Just because YOU want to waste your time on a bad team fighting a better team with monk does not mean everybody else wants to.

Just because YOU don't want to play doesn't mean everybody else don't want to. You know you're being an asshole, but you don't think you're one, because you can imagine so many more worse possible things. Typical, really. It's like the old adage: the line between "good player" and "bad player" is precisely where it makes me good. The line between "asshole" and "not an asshole" is precisely where it makes me not an asshole, even though I do all sorts of malicious things. Like I said, typical.

Sankt Hallvard · May 09, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhySoSrs

Players however, are malicious and use it anyway because it's at their disposal. So, if player A pisses off player B, player B has the ability to award him dishonor by reporting him for "leeching". Now, is pissing somebody off, by definition, leeching? Absolutely not, but players still pick "leeching" anyway because it's the only one that awards dishonor.

And yet the /report function is presented with: "Abuse of this feature may lead to ban". Seeing as pretty much none of the leeching reports are actual, why do they still let players have this option? And why aren't they autobanning people who /report since it's used 100% for spite anyway?

And Jeyda stop with the 1v1 bullshit or I'm gonna have to call my dad and have him beat up yours.

AtomicMew · May 09, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

1) Wow that sounds easy. Bsurge has been a cornerstone character in the ele build that has won 2 of the last 3 monthlies, but I suppose they all got lucky and avoided the 'decent' rangers & monks who would have destroyed that effectiveness. Regardless of the army of "ez dshot/divert/draw it" people here, bsurge remains one of the best chars to bring into RA if you're looking for wins & streaks.

2) If you're going to allow one hypothetical side to be good with interrupts & removals, then you allow the hypothetical bsurge to have a brain for 40/40 set usage, unpredictable timing, and redundant team defense or prots on him to deal with camping.

1) RA, not GvG. Also, wrong. B-surge is fairly mediocre in RA if you're looking for long 25 streaks. It's amazingly strong against particular team compositions, but it's a gimmick whose main purpose in RA is to steamroll bad players and piss them off like nothing else.

2) I absolutely guarantee you a Bsurge will not beat a ranger 1 on 1. You can only cast-cancel so much, pal. And let's not forget a ranger can cast cancel as well.

Having a monk back you up with guardian isn't really a good argument.