Curse

Missing HB · Dec 12, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

Quest days prove there's enough population and that they only need to be motivated. During quest days you also see how many bad teams you face (way too many). Obviously they're demotivated when being trampled so often, but if they faced other teams of their level they'd be glad to give it another shot. There are more popular formats, but those are the formats in which you almost never find good PvPers. That said, it's obvious the people are there. Motivate them, and you'll be able to see them more often elsewhere. There are PvP formats (of lesser average quality) which are far more popular than CA, HA and GvG, don't forget that.

The point in fact is they play codex on those days , because it's the place with the best reward at that moment. If you make every place with a special reward , people will migrate on the place with best one , and thus 1 format will be very active , and others terribly empty.
And , other formats such as JQ/FA/RA aren't populated because the reward is awesome , which isn't the case, but because you don't have to wait to form , to wait long for an opponent , etc...
HA is in fact the worse format atm : you are only able to have team and have opponent during roughly 5 hours/day , and those hours are everytime full of unfun bbways or r12 bala .

The point in PvP is mainly to have fun i guess and , after a few day now , although it's populated with a terrible meta, i find FA and JQ especially a lot more fun and tactic developing than HA or CA

urania · Dec 12, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

the following facts have been reconfirmed in yesterday's run to 10 wins:

1) hexway still rules over physical teams (the only removal was convert);
2) people still give up after one or two losses;
3) we can thank 2nd accounts synchers we even got to 10, because restarts started appearing after 3 wins already.

replace codex with TA, please.

Pauli · Dec 12, 2010, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

The.... CA

If that is so, why are there still far more players playing AB compared to CA, for example? Another fact you couldn't refute is that even when AB was far more popular (the population was larger back then), years ago, you could see a lot more Kurzicks when the Ancestral Lands was the map (and vice versa). If anything, the reward is much smaller when Kurzicks win at the Ancestral Lands. Your reward theory doesn't really fit here. In fact, it can't explain that fact at all. However what I've been saying all along explains those things all too well. People (generally) won't try to fight back for long if they know they don't have a decent chance to win.

Another one of your theories, which is also refuted here, revolves around waiting times. There are still many more people going to AB when their waiting times are extremely long (depends on the side). Back then, when the map was the Ancestral Lands, the Lurzicks were waiting a very long time just to fight, and that was for the smallest reward because it's their side. Luxons didn't have to wait, but their outpost was quite empty when the map was the Ancestral Lands. Winning there would reap the greatest rewards the format (AB) could get. Your theories don't really fit the way it really is out there.

Hexway could, indeed, be very strong when it can't be removed and physical teams are very vulnerable to various hexes. Nothing new here. Bad teams stop after losing once or twice. Good teams might just be warming up and getting used to the bars they just designed, and sometimes to each other as well. The problem is that bad teams are demotivated this way and you get less new blood. That's also what I've been saying all along.

The sync horse has been beaten to death so many ages ago it's not even funny anymore. In the original post I was asking posters not to try to discuss it for the reasons mentioned there, one of them being that it's not the format's fault (it's Anet's fault). TA had it's own share of syncers as well, but I didn't blame the format itself. The League System I offered comes instead of titles and therefore there won't be anything to gain by doing those things, making the whole deal more cost effective in that aspect as there will be no need for any (or much less) supervision.

urania · Dec 12, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

you can do it yourself when editing.
moreover, my post was about CA, not TA - the fact CA is more or less dead even on saturday late afternoon (euro zone) when it ought to be fairly full says enough. also, none of those points applied in TA, or at least not to such a great extent, so no, its not about my personal agenda, its merely stating facts and why the place can be either removed or improved, with the latter meaning more resources spent and hence not being in Anet's interest.
last but not least, CA mostly has bad players because most of the better ones dislike CA and rather go synch RA. or quit.

TA might have had some synchers, but it was at a far smaller scale than CA synchs are (not that I mind the latter).

Pauli · Dec 12, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

you can do it yourself when editing.
moreover, my post was about CA, not TA - the fact CA is more or less dead even on saturday late afternoon (euro zone) when it ought to be fairly full says enough. also, none of those points applied in TA, or at least not to such a great extent, so no, its not about my personal agenda, its merely stating facts and why the place can be either removed or improved, with the latter meaning more resources spent and hence not being in Anet's interest.
last but not least, CA mostly has bad players because most of the better ones dislike CA and rather go synch RA. or quit.

TA might have had some synchers, but it was at a far smaller scale than CA synchs are (not that I mind the latter).

Even if only for quest days' popularity it's worth keeping this format. Removing it will barely save any expenses, and Anet should care about that, not you. You can only guess TA is going to be far more popular outside quest days, and it doesn't really matter. It's also not nearly true that those points weren't relevant for TA. TA had syncers. Period. TA, like any format, caused bad teams to give up quite fast. It's a well known fact about PvP systems, and nothing you can say or do is going to change that. The ones who lost a lot don't usually want to keep fighting. Melees' vulnerability to a variety of threats, hexes among them, has nothing to do with TA specifically as well.

TA is gone, removed, deleted... just get over it and move on. Discussing it any further than that is unconstructive because we're here to promote CA and not TA. Right now every format which consists of mostly (if not only) PvPers, like CA, HA and GvG, suffers from popularity issues. This is a fact. An undisputable fact. This is where we start our discussion. If you want to post, please contribute to the discussion (on topic).

urania · Dec 12, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

you should get over your wishful thinking how CA needs and deserves as much as you're suggesting it does. it might have at the very start, but they didnt do much then and they most certainly wont nor want to do much now.
on a side note, next time post such lengthy feedback and whatnot when the format is introduced, not once its dead already.

i said ta had synchers, but also that synching wasnt done at SUCH an extent. i didnt compare melee's and their vulnerability to hexes though, so idk what your point on that one is.

anyhow, luckily the mighty zaishen quest makes even CA return to life for a short while.

got my cdx5 and 2 fairly long streaks, fun mes bars in both metas (expell me/n with enfeeble and defile flesh [lol broken duration] before 8 pm gmt +1 and pd mes after 8 pm gmt +1; both times 2 physicals with the mes and a mo in former, a rit in latter meta).
i even faced our lil pauli!

Coast · Dec 12, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Imo they should keep ca and just remove the skillrotations and allow every profession in it.
example: 2mesmers instead of only 1u can use now.

urania · Dec 12, 2010, 10:37 PM // 22:37

and rename it to TA while at it.

Coast · Dec 12, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41

would leave it named ca because otherwise the syncers there would complain

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

good thing you ignored 3/4 of my post to criticize the part you disliked about it. but i suppose the 3/4 part is just undeniable.
you should get over your wishful thinking how CA needs and deserves as much as you're suggesting it does. it might have at the very start, but they didnt do much then and they most certainly wont nor want to do much now.
on a side note, next time post such lengthy feedback and whatnot when the format is introduced, not once its dead already.

i said ta had synchers, but also that synching wasnt done at SUCH an extent. i didnt compare melee's and their vulnerability to hexes though, so idk what your point on that one is.

anyhow, luckily the mighty zaishen quest makes even CA return to life for a short while.

got my cdx5 and 2 fairly long streaks, fun mes bars in both metas (expell me/n with enfeeble and defile flesh [lol broken duration] before 8 pm gmt +1 and pd mes after 8 pm gmt +1; both times 2 physicals with the mes and a mo in former, a rit in latter meta).
i even faced our lil pauli!

First of all, who do you think you are? Who put you in charge of speaking for Anet? How do you know what's in their best interest in the long run? That said, let Anet's real representatives speak for themselves about their long term (not the short term) plans for GW and GW2. Secondly now is also a good time to talk about improvements that could contribute to the GW2, as well as GW, and if you don't see the big picture it makes no difference to anyone.

Wishful thinking is something you do apparently. If you only read carefully, you'd see in one of my last posts one very important detail: I wasn't playing at CA lately. So I applaud your attempt to say you faced me without even knowing who I am, and if you're talking about the past I already proved how honest you were about your accomplishments. Wait, I'll stop you here. Any further attempt derail this thread to get it closed like the last one will only result in me reporting you and your posts taken care of. I've had enough dishonestly for one thread and I don't even need to comment on such things anymore.

The only parts I didn't comment on were parts that didn't need to be commented. For example, saying CA suffers from unpopularity because good PvPers don't want it is just rubbish. Plain and simple. Both GvG and HA suffer greatly from the current PvP population issues, and it's a well known fact, so it's not a CA issue only. I guess those formats aren't good enough for PvPers, right?

My comment regarding the hexway vs melees was just that you didn't say anything new there.

I'm going to have to ask you, once more, to get back on topic and stop derailing this thread. Your post didn't contribute to the thread. Not a single constructive point was made there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Imo they should keep ca and just remove the skillrotations and allow every profession in it.
example: 2mesmers instead of only 1u can use now.

This is one of the best parts of CA, because it's far more balanced when you have to take 4 different professions. In addition, if one profession had a very strong codex, it'd create a very imbalanced environment for those 6 hours. The requirement to have 4 different professions is a good way to make codex setups more interesting because of the above reasons.

Missing HB · Dec 13, 2010, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

1-First of all, who do you think you are? Who put you in charge of speaking for Anet? How do you know what's in their best interest in the long run? That said, let Anet's real representatives speak for themselves about their long term (not the short term) plans for GW and GW2. Secondly now is also a good time to talk about improvements that could contribute to the GW2, as well as GW, and if you don't see the big picture it makes no difference to anyone.

1- Seriously , watch the updates we had for like 1 year and half now. Read as well the feedback on it. Except if you're very young kid or don't play GW a lot , anyone knows what GW( not GW2 ) will be on long run..... Just look at PvP right now (i.e inactive) and imagine how it will be after gw2 is released... I got over the idea HB and TA were deleted , although for n ovalid reason , but you also should get over the idea they will do something for CA....
In fact , those things we're suggesting are nice though , since they make take them in consideration for GW2..

2- ( about dead hours/inactivity posts ) You really don't get it. First , i'm talking about dead hours , not about euro evening , time which you probably play at only. This considered , people do play RA/FA/JQ/AB , because they SEE the number of players in the district ( american district is always full at ANY hour ) and it gives you an idea about luxon side. So , although they will have to wait , they KNOW they will have a fight.
For CA/HA , you actually can guess by watching last hall time and other district ( id1/ad1 only..) if it's worth wasting time to form. Worse , you can't even know if you will get an opponent in GvG.....That's something i will never get though , players who are forming team whereas there is noone in the district or noone in.....

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

In fact , those things we're suggesting are nice though , since they make take them in consideration for GW2..

This part refuted the rest of your point. GW can be used to test several methods which could be used at GW2 and that was my point. In fact, it's also clearly mentioned in the original post. That said, you're jumping into weird conclusions about me without even being able to understand my suggestions, or seeing the big picture I mentioned. It always makes one look wiser when he's not jumping to such conclusions, and vice versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

2-..

When you have such a small population you can't expect people to be active all the time, do you? As for waiting times, I was commenting on the days people rushed to the Kurzick side, for example, even though they had to wait a very long time. You claimed the short waiting times made the non CA/HA/GvG formats popular, and I proved it's mostly about a said team's (or player's) chance to lose/win. No more, no less.

It's crystal clear you need to have opponents if you want to play, and when there aren't it really isn't helping. However we're here to try to make things better. Will pure complaining help? Never. Will constructive suggestions help? Always. Enough said.

Missing HB · Dec 13, 2010, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

When you have such a small population you can't expect people to be active all the time, do you? As for waiting times, I was commenting on the days people rushed to the Kurzick side, for example, even though they had to wait a very long time. You claimed the short waiting times made the non CA/HA/GvG formats popular, and I proved it's mostly about a said team's (or player's) chance to lose/win. No more, no less.

And so people not playing on euro evening should just say " oh well , i will just not bother with pvp?" This is in fact all the basis of my posts. What's the logic in removing heroes when formats are getting lesser active....

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Now you're talking. Considering the small PvP population it should be an idea to consider, or at least discuss. I'll comment about your idea later. It's an interesting idea, and very constructive as well, but still requires some thinking.

urania · Dec 13, 2010, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

First of all, who do you think you are? Who put you in charge of speaking for Anet? How do you know what's in their best interest in the long run? That said, let Anet's real representatives speak for themselves about their long term (not the short term) plans for GW and GW2. Secondly now is also a good time to talk about improvements that could contribute to the GW2, as well as GW, and if you don't see the big picture it makes no difference to anyone.

Wishful thinking is something you do apparently. If you only read carefully, you'd see in one of my last posts one very important detail: I wasn't playing at CA lately. So I applaud your attempt to say you faced me without even knowing who I am, and if you're talking about the past I already proved how honest you were about your accomplishments. Wait, I'll stop you here. Any further attempt derail this thread to get it closed like the last one will only result in me reporting you and your posts taken care of. I've had enough dishonestly for one thread and I don't even need to comment on such things anymore.

The only parts I didn't comment on were parts that didn't need to be commented. For example, saying CA suffers from unpopularity because good PvPers don't want it is just rubbish. Plain and simple. Both GvG and HA suffer greatly from the current PvP population issues, and it's a well known fact, so it's not a CA issue only. I guess those formats aren't good enough for PvPers, right?

My comment regarding the hexway vs melees was just that you didn't say anything new there.

I'm going to have to ask you, once more, to get back on topic and stop derailing this thread. Your post didn't contribute to the thread. Not a single constructive point was made there.

5 years of how they were dealing with problems as well as their interest to improve and properly balance things out speaks for itself more than anything else. but you're free to remain gullible, if you wish to be. GW could serve as test grounds for GW2, but apparently they don't even want to do that. in a timely fashion, at least.

you proved nothing, especially not about me. you're free to bug the mods to check chat and win/loss logs of those days if you want to prove something for real. the rest remains your wild guess and vivid imagination.

my first post summed up some of the problems of ca and how they can be dealt with the easiest way (;.

haha, sorry but many good players do hate CA - that's a fact and you denying it simply means you dont have contacts to any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

This is one of the best parts of CA, because it's far more balanced when you have to take 4 different professions. In addition, if one profession had a very strong codex, it'd create a very imbalanced environment for those 6 hours. The requirement to have 4 different professions is a good way to make codex setups more interesting because of the above reasons.

obviously without it itd be (even more) broken in some metas. but then again, TA would be far less broken with that rule too, so yeah. tsk tsk Anet.

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 10:03 AM // 10:03

GW could be used as a testing ground for some of the mechanics/methods used at GW2, and that's what I've been saying all along. You have to see the bigger picture and remember you're nothing more than a forum poster. You're not representing Anet any more than anyone else here. The same goes for the way you speak in "many good PvPers' " names. You'll have to try harder to convince us that the PvP community is reporting directly to you and/or that you've been performing some kind of worthy research. HA, GvG and CA suffer from population issues, and nothing you say or do is going to change this fact.

Regarding your accomplishments, we both know the truth about them because we've both been there to know. I don't need to prove anything beyond the things I proved already. Deny all day for all I care.

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Why should I be in a hurry when it comes to collecting feedback. The short term plans are going to take some time anyway. You really have to understand the way it goes with development. Patience is the key when you have no pressure.

urania · Dec 13, 2010, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Anet's sluggish attitude to balancing has been the downfall of its pvp, so i advise you do not embrace it as something positive. you may be patient, but once gw 2 will come out im afraid all your feedback will go by unnoticed if not recognised before that.

Pauli · Dec 13, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Anet's sluggish attitude to balancing has been the downfall of its pvp, so i advise you do not embrace it as something positive. you may be patient, but once gw 2 will come out im afraid all your feedback will go by unnoticed if not recognised before that.

judging you lost 4 times we beat you once at least (i cant remember if we faced the same team twice or 2 diff teams with the same setup) and havent lost afterwards, meaning we just quit before you got your shit straight with the build you were using. also, when we still played there have been more than just 3 teams in. i denied the false accusation you've beaten us, so that obviously denies all of the related assumptions that let you make such a conclusion.

dw, i wont hold it against you if you've lost against us and trying to cover it up.

Balancing isn't an easy process and it's only natural to make mistakes. Different players will also have different feelings about specific changes made in an attempt to balance the game. However, trying to improve it by offering constructive suggestions is the best way by far.

urania · Dec 13, 2010, 11:13 AM // 11:13

the problem is that most of those constructive feedbacks werent taken into account when balancing (even thou some have actually been considered). and trust me, there has been a lot and all of them done in great detail.