Curse

Corporeal Ghost · Jan 10, 2011, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Missing HB, we (I) understand you harbor a deep-seated resentment of Codex arena for usurping Hero Battles' place as the pinnacle of Guild Wars play. We (I) would appreciate it if you would stop reiterating this in every single Codex thread that comes up. You're not really adding anything to often legitimate/interesting/mildly entertaining topics, and it's getting pretty repetitive.

Many thanks,
Corporeal Ghost

Missing HB · Jan 11, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Missing HB, we (I) understand you harbor a deep-seated resentment of Codex arena for usurping Hero Battles' place as the pinnacle of Guild Wars play. We (I) would appreciate it if you would stop reiterating this in every single Codex thread that comes up. You're not really adding anything to often legitimate/interesting/mildly entertaining topics, and it's getting pretty repetitive.

Many thanks,
Corporeal Ghost

You don't get it ...Sure i will , but seriously :
- we could remove CA for the reasons TA and HB were removed
- we cannot play codex at anytime but on zquest day , there is just NOONE there upon all districts
- even considering we can play , it still depends on how fun the skill pool is , the possibility to be able to get 5 wins ( upon number of players but also build wars , etc..)

In fact , the point 2 alone is enough a good reason to those questions...
So , until we're told a serious answer about why Hb and Ta were deleted for this ( whereas , behind nightfall box , it's clearly said that we're able to use our heroes to participate to Player V Player fights) , why CA is kept , and if something will be done .......

p.s : almost every post i do is constructive , each time i give arguments and examples about the situation , whereas 3/4 of posts are usually like " do it , it would be cool " so i hardly believe i'm not entertaining topics

Pauli · Jan 11, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Missing HB...

Well said. Thank you. If only he'd stop intentionally dropping the fact there were far more people playing GW back then. In addition, TA has syncers because there were times there was no one around, even with the influx of RA teams, which had absolutely nothing to do with TA popularity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

You don't get it ...Sure i will , but seriously :
- we could remove CA for the reasons TA and HB were removed
- we cannot play codex at anytime but on zquest day , there is just NOONE there upon all districts
- even considering we can play , it still depends on how fun the skill pool is , the possibility to be able to get 5 wins ( upon number of players but also build wars , etc..)

In fact , the point 2 alone is enough a good reason to those questions...
So , until we're told a serious answer about why Hb and Ta were deleted for this ( whereas , behind nightfall box , it's clearly said that we're able to use our heroes to participate to Player V Player fights) , why CA is kept , and if something will be done .......

p.s : almost every post i do is constructive , each time i give arguments and examples about the situation , whereas 3/4 of posts are usually like " do it , it would be cool " so i hardly believe i'm not entertaining topics

Thanks for asking Anet to remove a format instead of improving it, just because your favorite format/s was/were deleted. Brilliant. Are you honestly calling yourself constructive? In my original post I asked to take posts, like the one I quoted, away. You're using this thread to get answers for the events of the past and asking to delete a format, when the thread is about promoting it. There are many solutions to the current CA solution, and if you only read the whole thread you'd understand the reason something isn't being done here and now. In addition, please read my first reply in this post.

sven McNubcake · Jan 11, 2011, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

Thanks for asking Anet to remove a format instead of improving it, just because your favorite format/s was/were deleted. Brilliant. Are you honestly calling yourself constructive? In my original post I asked to take posts, like the one I quoted, away. You're using this thread to get answers for the events of the past and asking to delete a format, when the thread is about promoting it. There are many solutions to the current CA solution, and if you only read the whole thread you'd understand the reason something isn't being done here and now. In addition, please read my first reply in this post.

To be fair, that's what they ve done to TA and HB too.
There were solutions aswell, and i think there were easier ones than you need in codex arena.

Oh and i cant and wont believe that the gw community was so much bigger in the last days of HBing and 2 weeks after codex.
If this is false what i ve just said, the people apperently left because of the removal of these two modes. (i didnt see a big player loss on the other modes at these times)

People tried the Arena, they tried and left.

Anyway, i ve got much more to counter but i cant be arsed writing them down now. Still, you should think about why wouldnt they just let the mode "die" ingame instead of taking it off. Just announce a "we wont balance this mode anymore cause we think its totally broken" (which wasnt broken, ppl just qqed for small balancings)

Pauli · Jan 11, 2011, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sven McNubcake

To be fair, that's what they ve done to TA and HB too.
There were solutions aswell, and i think there were easier ones than you need in codex arena.

Oh and i cant and wont believe that the gw community was so much bigger in the last days of HBing and 2 weeks after codex.
If this is false what i ve just said, the people apperently left because of the removal of these two modes. (i didnt see a big player loss on the other modes at these times)

People tried the Arena, they tried and left.

Anyway, i ve got much more to counter but i cant be arsed writing them down now. Still, you should think about why wouldnt they just let the mode "die" ingame instead of taking it off. Just announce a "we wont balance this mode anymore cause we think its totally broken" (which wasnt broken, ppl just qqed for small balancings)

I'd discuss which solutions were offered and if they were actually better, but those formats are deleted. This is beating a dead horse, no matter what those arenas meant to you or anyone else for that matter. Population issues were beaten to death as well, and weren't only discussed here.

I'd imagine you said you could counter many other things the way you think you "countered" the population fact: "Oh and i cant and wont believe that the gw community was so much bigger in the last days of HBing and 2 weeks after codex". Your personal beliefs are no better than anyone else's personal beliefs, and they are, in no shape or form, facts.

If you can't be arsed, don't expect to be taken seriously as well. If you actually want to be constructive, provide arguments. Well made arguments aren't based on your personal beliefs. Such beliefs, as well as opinions, can't be used to support an well made argument.

sven McNubcake · Jan 12, 2011, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

I'd discuss which solutions were offered and if they were actually better, but those formats are deleted. This is beating a dead horse, no matter what those arenas meant to you or anyone else for that matter. Population issues were beaten to death as well, and weren't only discussed here.

I'd imagine you said you could counter many other things the way you think you "countered" the population fact: "Oh and i cant and wont believe that the gw community was so much bigger in the last days of HBing and 2 weeks after codex". Your personal beliefs are no better than anyone else's personal beliefs, and they are, in no shape or form, facts.

If you can't be arsed, don't expect to be taken seriously as well. If you actually want to be constructive, provide arguments. Well made arguments aren't based on your personal beliefs. Such beliefs, as well as opinions, can't be used to support an well made argument.

I dont even need to counter the population fact.
you just said the population cant be compared between HB+TA times and codex arena
guess why
People quit because they didnt like the new format.
Most people tried it. I mean almost everyone tried it. But after 2 days people quit again cause they realized it wasnt as fun as the old formats were.

If you want a constructive discussion, where are your statistics that the pvp community went down from that point on?
I think the best sources are players who actually play the game and can judge on it. Im pretty sure most people wouldnt agree with you.

Anyway
I can give you solutions. Saying they are deleted and you cant bring up any solutions anymore. I am sure Anet is able to bring them back if they could, so you could revive that dead horse with good arguments.
Still, there were MANY threads on different forums about HB. There were many solutions written down by Hbers themselves, which Anet didnt accept.
The test krewe wasnt created that time, in my opinion having that option that they can make balance discussions on a neutral base where Anet actually reads would have been the best solutions, yet they removed it before it happened.
Im not blaming Anet for removing it. It had its issues. Same for TA. But there would be so many positive impact on bringing it back up with the test krewe in the back.

They said they werent able to fix it. (<- no ressources)

Test krewe. I think the biggest issue wasnt the fixing itself, it was their knowledge about the format, which was basicly zero. If you look at the gvg mode you can see them working on the mechanics etc. So they are definitly known to that one. If they would have worked more with HB i think they would have been able to make some good suggestions to it aswell.
But still, they dont need to have the best knowledge about the format.
I would suggest a HBer-Testkrewe recruitment which will make the Format a well balanced mode.

The PvP community is getting smaller and smaller.

They have to do something against it. They have to motivate new players to play pvp again. If you look at the whole pvp community its basicly people who have been playing together for 2 years now. I cant remember myself seeing a new face in my last guilds.
Bringing back these modes would
1. teach players how to play competetive. I know plenty of people in the higher rank guilds who started GvG after the removal of those formats.
These modes tought u
how to behave in combat, including interupts, KITING, etc (ta)
overview about the situation (HB)
Microing: saying 1v1 + 3 ais isnt real pvp is dumb. You have to micro them like zombies. I mean thats what some do in gvg aswell with their mates. Still, it gives you a GREAT multitasking skill for the other modes. You need to concentrate more than on your bar.

New players CANT learn these things that fast and easy in any other mode. Especially HB was the option where u didnt have to rely on other people. You were able to learn the game by yourself. You just cant learn the basic things in gvg as good as in TA + HB. You re getting stomped in GvG + HA nowadays and since u need eight people it will take ages for you to get any good cause u have to wait and fill in spots when people raged the guild/group.
Ta needs 4 people and mostly u can fill in these spots with friends who are willing to learn together. HB speaks for itself.

Most people nowadays log on for their favourite mode, play it and log off

I am basicly inactive. I log on for like 5 mins, check when the at starts and go offline. I dont like HA cause im almost done with 8v8 modes.
Random Arena isnt my mode. Its random and annoying if you meet people who arent at your skill level and thats happening constantly.
Im missing modes i can play for fun but still arent taking much time. HA takes ages. AB is dead. Codex is dead. JQ isnt my favourite mode either, still i played it few times but its not competive.
So basicly after the removal they removed the option for fast competetive games.

These are (a few) things which would make it worth bringing the modes back.
I think even one of these arguments would be enough already, why does it matter if the mode isnt balanced/ is dead? I cant see any reason to remove them. You could just say "we wont make any balancing for these modes anymore" and people have to accept it. I dont think the QQing would take the same level as it did after they announced the removal.

Im not a hber myself, im just a person who really likes the game and i want to keep it alive and as active as possible. And i think this would cost a small anmount of ressources. I should also mention that the most people are disappointed about Anets decisions. I think this would be a great way to get some positive feedback for them.

I couldnt be arsed to post this cause its taking time. I took about 30 mins for this. And mostly, since this isnt my first time im writing down these phrases, i never got any good discussion about it. That one guy from test krewe basicly took every shit out of my post except the arguments. So if you would be so kind and post back some constructive things back, i am glad to have a discussion about it. Im not a qqer not caring about anything else than HB and TA. I actually play gvg most of my time and i wasnt the most active person on these modes either, but i would say this would be one of the best ways to bring back action to the game.

thanks

urania · Jan 12, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

someone should forward that to whoever in Anet is still dealing with GW 1.

so refreshing to read this in comp to all the theory crafting regarding CA.

Pauli · Jan 12, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sven McNubcake

I dont...thanks

You totally misunderstood the population argument I was presenting. I was saying that there are generally less people than there used to be. I wasn't talking about any format in particular. TA and HB were removed many months ago and the population is just not the same. Even if I'm not currently playing GW, I've been playing for a very long time, taking part of many PvP formats (over time). If CA was that bad, people wouldn't play it even for the reward when the Zaishen Quest day arrives. People wouldn't do absolutely everything to complete a Zaishen Quest. The format has cons and pros, and this thread was made to try to improve this arena, even if it means turning it into something different. All you have to do is take a look at the original post.

I wasn't saying HB and TA shouldn't be revived, and that there were no possible solutions. All I was saying is that this isn't the right thread to discuss those topics. No one is stopping you from discussing those topics elsewhere. However, you've obviously investing quite some time writing your post, so I'll respect it by replying to the off topic parts, but I kindly ask you to proceed with the off topic discussion in the relevant threads.

"They said they werent able to fix it. (<- no ressources)"

An official response for that would be great, but it's nearly impossible to get one.

"The PvP community is getting smaller and smaller"

I totally agree, this is what I've been saying earlier but you simply misunderstood me. It has a lot to do with Anet's decisions regarding development resources.

"Most people nowadays log on for their favourite mode, play it and log off"

Perhaps you're right. I've no reliable data which is good enough to confirm your claim or counter it.

We need an official response regarding the reasons TA and HB were removed, never to be seen again. Perhaps the reasons Anet provided so far were true, perhaps they're not. We need an official Anet representative to speak, but it probably isn't going to happen. You also have to realize that Anet employees can't reveal their true identity when they post here, unless they're taking part of an official task (The GvG thread would be a good example). They might be more free when it comes to the way they choose to post (hehe), but they can't provide any official info. However, you can sometimes spot one if you look carefully.

Btw, I never meant to say you're a QQer. I only meant it's off topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

someone should forward that to whoever in Anet is still dealing with GW 1.

so refreshing to read this in comp to all the theory crafting regarding CA.

Refreshing for you maybe. I know quite a few others who'd understand we're beating a dead horse. You're most welcome to revive old TA/HB threads and/or open a new one. If it really is so refreshing, just go ahead and do it.

I'd also like to thank the excellent moderation which was doing an excellent job once more. I promised to be the bigger person, and that's what I did.

sven McNubcake · Jan 12, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49

first off, i know you arent calling me a QQer. But mostly people come up with make another HB QQthread. so i just wanted to get rid of that.

I wont make another thread for this. Its useless. I just reacted on this

Quote:

If you can't be arsed, don't expect to be taken seriously as well. If you actually want to be constructive, provide arguments.

Anyway, its offtopic and i know it doesnt belong in here. I ll just be quite for now since i wouldnt like someone to post in a HB thread about improving codex arena.

You are right with the population, i prob missunderstood it.
But still, there needs to be a solution about bringing more people to pvp again.
If its improving codex arena or hb + ta, i really dont care.

Pauli · Jan 12, 2011, 09:57 PM // 21:57

I urge you to try a new thread with HB and/or TA as it's topic. You've nothing to lose, have you? On topic, they'll bring more people once they tone down the learning curve. The League System, found in the original post, was made just for that. PvP systems are always going to have this problem. Make sure the players have a decent chance of facing teams of comparable skill level. Make sure newbes face pros if you want to make sure there's no new blood in that PvP system.

urania · Jan 12, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

kinda hard to get a discussion going about something that's no longer part of the game (apart from general threads such as "do you remember shit..."), and theory crafting only makes a few exceptions happy forum pandas.

Pauli · Jan 13, 2011, 01:23 AM // 01:23

There was a misunderstanding with my post, and I cba to write it all again. It was basically saying you've nothing to lose by starting a new thread, and that there's useful info in this thread regarding development. Do what you will with this info.

superraptors · Jan 20, 2011, 11:36 AM // 11:36

removing formats is a always a bad way to increase a player base, they should've actually kept ta along with hb, but adding back ta and hb into this point of the game is rather too late and any means on improving CA is not going to happen either.

Pauli · Jan 20, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

removing formats is a always a bad way to increase a player base, they should've actually kept ta along with hb, but adding back ta and hb into this point of the game is rather too late and any means on improving CA is not going to happen either.

It's possible for CA to either be improved or turned into something different. It all depends on resources (as well as the development schedule), and those will be much more likely spent when CA could be used to help the GW2 project. If you read the thread you'd see the way it's mentioned, along other details. Other than that, you can't tell what will be improved, or not, if you're not representing Anet. You could guess, of course, but then again we can all just guess around without it actually helping anyone.

Missing HB · Feb 12, 2011, 08:59 AM // 08:59

I think that they should just have made Codex based on costume brawl , with pre-made builds for each day/week maybe....
So now , double points , for once there are players , it's fun to just go in with random builds , but when you face simili-RA meta ( i.e mo/w blood nec , ranger and war ) every fight .... Even when it's same build vs same build , fights are really getting too long ....

I'm pretty sure they should have made some correct fixed bars ( such as in CB) in order to avoid 10mn fights ( thus generally 30mn+ in order to get 5 ...)

Anyway , for me solutions that could have been done to save codex are one of the following:
- Costume brawl format
- Allow Heroes
- Change title requirement
- Change number of consec fights needed

Pauli · Feb 12, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The CB part is already mentioned in the original post. The Heroes' suggestion as well, if I recall. I'm all for totally removing the title and turn it into a league system. It requires consistency and there's a slim chance, if any, to have something similar to high titled players who've cheated their way up.