Curse

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 27, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

guys...the biggest problem is:

ANET EVER SAY: PVP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF GW.

Today...with grenthway, you can win a match easily...just doing random pressure, random tattics and hit all the people u see...plz press B and watch HA/GvG observ...specially HoH...do u think that a grenthway need brain to win a HoH match?

superraptors · Feb 27, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirame

E-denial
Dwarven Battle Stance
Dev Hammer
Blind surge (****ing eles)
Anything with knockdown and/or blind

.

edenial - eremites zeal

dbs - no one even uses this competitively

dev hammer - ebda easy
bsurge -ebda easy
kd - fleeting stability says hi

vinoth · Feb 27, 2011, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Its a good update. Revitalizes HA. Hopefully people will use this as an opportunity to learn the maps.

HA should not be focused around high ranked players who run balance 24/7. It should help new guys get in.

People should really stop complaining + requesting nerfs. Grow some balls and learn to counter and win. If u are complete nostaliga player such as myself. you can use different tactics with the same build and still win.

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 27, 2011, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

Its a good update. Revitalizes HA. Hopefully people will use this as an opportunity to learn the maps.

ROFL. Learning maps???

Cap point = 1 derv can kill everyone and cap in solo.
Relic run = 2 dervs run and other derv snare random with crippled.
KOTH = 5 brainless derv hit random the ghost.

To learn the right positions and the right tattics to win a map is to use a balanced team, a pro spike, not a brainless random rpessure way.

I don't think that this new dervish can help people to learning map! hahahaha

FoxBat · Feb 27, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Because balanced has worked soo well for HA 's longevity for the past year.

That isn't to say some derv stuff isn't OP and should be hit, but right now, any HA activity is probably a good thing.

some guy · Feb 27, 2011, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oo Dany Oo

ROFL. Learning maps???

Cap point = 1 derv can kill everyone and cap in solo.
Relic run = 2 dervs run and other derv snare random with crippled.
KOTH = 5 brainless derv hit random the ghost.

To learn the right positions and the right tattics to win a map is to use a balanced team, a pro spike, not a brainless random rpessure way.

I don't think that this new dervish can help people to learning map! hahahaha

Thiss!!!!........

*lemming* · Feb 27, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

HA should not be focused around high ranked players who run balance 24/7. It should help new guys get in.

New players seem to hate "cheap" builds like bbsway and WotA/Esurge ruining their day even more than high ranked players. How are dervish-centered builds any different?

Kunder · Feb 28, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

New players seem to hate "cheap" builds like bbsway and WotA/Esurge ruining their day even more than high ranked players. How are dervish-centered builds any different?

Its really not right to categorize by new or old. There are plenty of players on both who fall into one of these categories:

1. Enjoys diverse build sets that engage creative planning and thinking.

2. Wants a rigid build to practice to perfection and doesn't enjoy the build wars. Or just wants to title farm without needing to worry about how to handle a diverse range of opponents.

Neither of these really polarizes new or old players, its all about what the player is playing PvP for.

LifeInfusion · Feb 28, 2011, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Considerations, for skills with bar compression:
EDA (blind removal + conjure level armor ignoring damage + blind = 3skills in one)
Grenth's Aura (lifesteal is pressure + heal ... lower life steal?)
Fleeting stability (IMS + 1 anti-KD ... stance?)
Harrier's Haste (IMS+ 10ish damage ... stance?)
Rending Aura PVP (Remove enchantments on KDed is easy ; no damage conversion unlike staggering force/dust cloak = no shield swap ; 6 recharge)
Lyssa's Haste (when used with Grenth's Avatar + Frag ; AOE interrupt ... remove AOE interrupt on demand initial effect)
Onslaught (Primal Rage looks bad since this has a buff rather than a malus ... up recharge and remove adrenaline boost?)
Crippling Sweep (Protector's Strike + hamstring ... 10 recharge?)
Aura of Thorns (AOE cripple makes hamstring/cripslash look bad ... 15 recharge and 10 energy?)

Until 2+ stack removals are everywhere (Strip enchant, rend enchant, chilblains, gaze of contempt, etc) these need to be looked at.

urania · Feb 28, 2011, 08:29 AM // 08:29

well, the mAT reminded us that "good old" hexway still works just as well and outclasses new dervs too, which brings us back to the fact no one at Anet really gives a shit about balance to start with, which lets us assume they won't really tweak the derv (at least not in a timely fashion), because, clearly, other builds are able to steam roll derv setups if not specced for.

*rolls eyes*

Missing HB · Feb 28, 2011, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

well, the mAT reminded us that "good old" hexway still works just as well and outclasses new dervs too, which brings us back to the fact no one at Anet really gives a shit about balance to start with, which lets us assume they won't really tweak the derv (at least not in a timely fashion), because, clearly, other builds are able to steam roll derv setups if not specced for.

*rolls eyes*

That's not the same problem , that's about countering build since they knew what opponents would run. That's something i always did in Hero Battles mat. You add people in flist then you know what char name is which profession , etc....[yawn] just weren't smart to take standard wiki team build w/o even thinking( i.e they keep trying to fight them) and thus they lost ....

The fact with dervishs is that it outclass ANY other melee profession in other formats, simply because in addition to huge damage and attacking/moving faster 24/7 , you even regen your life.... In fact , there are so many bsurgers and necros going in RA now that it's not even fun playing anything else than grenth derv as melee now....

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 28, 2011, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's not the same problem , that's about countering build since they knew what opponents would run. That's something i always did in Hero Battles mat. You add people in flist then you know what char name is which profession , etc....[yawn] just weren't smart to take standard wiki team build w/o even thinking( i.e they keep trying to fight them) and thus they lost ....

The fact with dervishs is that it outclass ANY other melee profession in other formats, simply because in addition to huge damage and attacking/moving faster 24/7 , you even regen your life.... In fact , there are so many bsurgers and necros going in RA now that it's not even fun playing anything else than grenth derv as melee now....

About DERV = OVERPOWERED MELEE i quote u...but this isn't the only problem.

This update has made the pvp very annoying!

Asda che ti Passa · Feb 28, 2011, 01:00 PM // 13:00

i just wanna say to who did this update that i had like 20 gvg's last 2 day's and i had a ebon dust aura linebacking me the whole game for at least 17 matchs. If your goal was killing melee's that needed a bit of brain for 1 grenth spammer and 1 blindspammer well done you made it.

Mayh3m · Feb 28, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Grenth's Aura nerf it.

vinoth · Feb 28, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

If you lose to a team, dont blame the build opposition is running. blame how your team operates.

I faced the dervish way a few times, the last time I ha'd. We lost to them on two occasions- that was mainly because people were not doing the tactic described.

Most of the guys posting here aldready have their birdys (I assume). You should be able to beat teams with the build you like, if you execute everything properly. Most low ranked guys 0-r11(many higher ones too) are usually are rubbish in splitting/tactics. use this to ur advantage to win.

HA does not revolve around 1 balance build, it revolves around people. We need more people in the format. If your team is good u win, if ur team is bad u lose - regardless of builds. Period.

crucifix · Feb 28, 2011, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Seriously guys... the bitching here is hilarious. I'm just about positive that the obviously imba skills will be changed in time, but you can't get on the "new update, I hate everything" train after the first week of release. Relax, learn the meta, abuse obviously abusable skills, and cool it with the e-honor bullshit. The only reason that the lot of the complainers are even complaining is because they have been put outside their comfort zone.

One little update and you all act as though the world is falling apart.

some guy · Feb 28, 2011, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

If your team is good u win, if ur team is bad u lose - regardless of builds. Period.

This is unfortunately wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

The only reason that the lot of the complainers are even complaining is because they have been put outside their comfort zone.

No just no, you have no idea how bad the current balance right now.

FoxBat · Mar 01, 2011, 01:31 AM // 01:31

I did some testing with Grenth's Aura, and I'm with Lemming that it's strange. The skill doesn't actually add any damage at all, nor does it help you "ignore" armor, as the dev update unhelpfully implied. It always subtracts the same fixed value from your damage after armor calculations, and adds its same life steal. The only time your damage goes up is when your armor-respecting damage is somehow negated. (RoF/SoA); vs shielding hands it should actually lower your damage, as that skill also prots against life steal packets.

As far as I can tell, grenth just does the following things:

- Healing
- Get under Spirit Bond
- Initial 17 damage boost.

Any one of these (or all) may be serious balance issues, but "armor ignoring damage" doesn't seem to be a significant part of it.

some guy · Mar 01, 2011, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I did some testing with Grenth's Aura, and I'm with Lemming that it's strange. The skill doesn't actually add any damage at all, nor does it help you "ignore" armor, as the dev update unhelpfully implied. It always subtracts the same fixed value from your damage after armor calculations, and adds its same life steal. The only time your damage goes up is when your armor-respecting damage is somehow negated. (RoF/SoA); vs shielding hands it should actually lower your damage, as that skill also prots against life steal packets.

As far as I can tell, grenth just does the following things:

- Healing
- Get under Spirit Bond
- Initial 17 damage boost.

Any one of these (or all) may be serious balance issues, but "armor ignoring damage" doesn't seem to be a significant part of it.

It's when you combine it with the other stuff that's when the Imba dervish shines. Grenths by it self is pretty garbage.

Kunder · Mar 01, 2011, 02:40 AM // 02:40

If your standard weapon attack hits for < Grenth's Aura's damage, you get the difference for free. If GA is at -20/+20, your damage can't go under 0 and lifesteal is always 20, so its essentially like a 20-41 damage weapon. A bit weaker then that actually, since +damage mods don't affect GA and the distribution is different. But the effect is there, and it combined with other benefits of life steal really makes the skill just too good. It become particularly pronounced if you are raising GA up even further, 16 wind prayers would be beastly if someone was trying to run it. It DOES bypass armor in a sense, if an enemy is at 100 armor and your base scythe damage changes to 4-20, GA turns that into 20 damage flat all the time. I'll come up with some hard numbers in a bit.

EDIT:

Against AL 60, GA @ 11 wind prayers is about +2ish damage per hit, against AL 88 (ie, caster + shield + armor insignia), it gets to be about +4 damage. For ridiculousness sake, linebacking against an AL 116 warrior it turns into +8 damage. If you want to get really silly, GA @ 16 wind prayers gives about +12 damage per hit against the warrior.

Not quite as much of an effect as I was thinking TBH, but its definitely adding to the pressure effect of the skill. Keep in mind that scythes already have greater natural DPS than other weapons, any + from skills is just icing on the top. One other thing to note: its not worthwhile to use in PvE against lol140armor shit mobs, since its negating your SoH/OoP + damage boosts.

To sum it up: if your weapon rolls a low number for damage, GA makes sure that it can't go below x life steal. If your weapon rolls a high number (or a crit), GA makes it so Spirit Bond/ Prot Spirit will never work against you to lower your damage. Either way, you are also gaining health constantly meaning you can extend into an enemy backline and pressure harder. Shielding Hands DOES suck hard though, essentially reducing all scythe damage to 5 or thereabouts while its in place. But its high recharge combined with lol IAS+IMS indefinitely (as I've mentioned above) means that changing targets to get away from individual prots is almost never a big deal. Still, having multiple copies of SA is your best way to mitigate Derv damage now.