Curse

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 26, 2011, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

(Ward v Melee does a really good job, aswell as an earth ele in general) Only the unranked to r9+ teams run this teambuild (Because it's easier to form than the more OP variant, or they simply don't know any better).

50% of possibility. Let's go to ball in a ward!! Go Go!
If one attack pass the ward all players in that ward take damage...and ball against dervish(specially new dervish) == BIGGEST FAIL EVER.

IMHO this new dervish are horribles...no brain, no tattics, no skill are requested to win a battle...just press B and watch HoH...about 15 Avatar of Grenth in match...annoying situation.

Taurean · Feb 26, 2011, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I as a ranger killed a good lot of dervishes in some pvp matches in the jade quarry when gathering kurzic faction.

some guy · Feb 26, 2011, 08:32 PM // 20:32

As of now a Dervs outclass other melee classes and this shouldn't be the case...

Lyssa's Haste is insanely annoying as well

Coast · Feb 26, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

wards are huge and u still get the benefit if u stand out of it(slightly out of it)

shoyon456 · Feb 27, 2011, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

As of now a Dervs outclass other melee classes and this shouldn't be the case...

And why shouldn't it be the case huh? Sounds like you're just butthurt that the Dervish finally gets some love for the first time since NF came out and you just can't handle it. Yes, if a Derv was better in all aspects than Assassin or Warrior, it would be stupid. However that is not the case.

Of course it could probably use more balance, but comments like this are petty and showcase a narcissistic, uncompromising attitude. As someone else mentioned, stop trying to do the same thing you've always done to deal with the new Derv.

For the record, I don't know crap about PvP but from someone whose main is a Derv and is very appreciative of this update, this narrow-minded comment just set me off.

To be fair, its good to see that others at least acknowledge that it's good the Dervish is getting some competitive play which hasn't happened in years.

Kunder · Feb 27, 2011, 06:19 AM // 06:19

We have had like 5 major builds in the past with dozens of variations that abused IAS + IMS, were far too dominant, and were nerfed. You would think by now, after 5+ years, Anet would have learned that maintainable IAS + IMS is OP. Not only that, but Dervs have multiple ways to obtain it and other classes can get it from a secondary. Seriously, were they trying?

Other then that, Grenth's Aura could use a bit of a tone down (I mean damn, its near elite status as it is). Everything else we should just wait and see how it turns out afterwords.

JSX · Feb 27, 2011, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

For the record, I don't know crap about PvP

And that's about right when i stopped reading and disregarded everything you posted.

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 27, 2011, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSX

And that's about right when i stopped reading and disregarded everything you posted.

/quote

I think that ANet makes this update and don't analyze the PvP aspect of the game with this new dervish. At the moment the dervish is the melee with more damage(AoG+Grenth'sAura), more defense(AoG+Grenth'sAura for selfhealing - +bonus armor from mysticism) and more speed(HeartOfFury+Harrier'sHaste).

I play GW...full time HA and a bit of GvG. I'm boring of this Grentway! !% AoG in HoH.

urania · Feb 27, 2011, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSX

And that's about right when i stopped reading and disregarded everything you posted.

wait. you actually took it seriously from the start?

seems pve'ers discovered this thread and feel like they must voice their opinion about something they have never set foot to nor have the smallest clue about. you may quote this thread on riverside and trash the hell out of it, but keep out of it in gladiator's arena. don't get me wrong - i'd love to play this derv as it is in pve. but it just doesnt belong to pvp without substantial tweaks on certain skills.

but that brings me back to my point that all the devs want now is make the majority of the player base a happy panda. balance went out the window long time ago anyway.

and just for the record, dervs have had good, if not OP, builds before the stupid revamp already.

moreover, since this revamp is also gw2 test, most of us know what we're in for.

some guy · Feb 27, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

And why shouldn't it be the case huh? Sounds like you're just butthurt that the Dervish finally gets some love for the first time since NF came out and you just can't handle it. Yes, if a Derv was better in all aspects than Assassin or Warrior, it would be stupid. However that is not the case.

Of course it could probably use more balance, but comments like this are petty and showcase a narcissistic, uncompromising attitude. As someone else mentioned, stop trying to do the same thing you've always done to deal with the new Derv.

For the record, I don't know crap about PvP but from someone whose main is a Derv and is very appreciative of this update, this narrow-minded comment just set me off.

To be fair, its good to see that others at least acknowledge that it's good the Dervish is getting some competitive play which hasn't happened in years.

Rank 6
Gladiator 3

I have a say in the PvP aspect you know right? If you don't know much about PvP I suggest don't come in and post stupid stuff. So you are saying a Derv can use a sword better than the warrior and that's fine?

Derv sword builds are way deadlier than your regular warrior cripslash build.

*Also Lemming, nice to see you again, I saw you in Cats before with the rest of the bunch*

Missing HB · Feb 27, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oo Dany Oo

/quote

I think that ANet makes this update and don't analyze the PvP aspect of the game with this new dervish. At the moment the dervish is the melee with more damage(AoG+Grenth'sAura), more defense(AoG+Grenth'sAura for selfhealing - +bonus armor from mysticism) and more speed(HeartOfFury+Harrier'sHaste).

I play GW...full time HA and a bit of GvG. I'm boring of this Grentway! !% AoG in HoH.

Yes it's terrible really. It's kinda like a/el build with the ability to not die . Not really fun to play in HA and RA. I decided to run Bbway for once but well , 1 derv camp spirits , 2 other mash random rupts on healers, wars can't kill...On cap points , even if you ninjaway on 1 base, they have time to run whole map before you get it and even kill you. Not gonna argue about unkillable wall on 1v1 relic hall...

But well , maybe we should do like in gvg mat finals. Just run some epic hexway ....

Oo Dany Oo · Feb 27, 2011, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Yes it's terrible really. It's kinda like a/el build with the ability to not die . Not really fun to play in HA and RA. I decided to run Bbway for once but well , 1 derv camp spirits , 2 other mash random rupts on healers, wars can't kill...On cap points , even if you ninjaway on 1 base, they have time to run whole map before you get it and even kill you. Not gonna argue about unkillable wall on 1v1 relic hall...

But well , maybe we should do like in gvg mat finals. Just run some epic hexway ....

I think also that a 5 derv team in HA haven't weaknesses in all maps:
- UW & annihilation maps(also with priest): Can kill everyone + strong defense
- Relic Run: 2 derv run+speed boost from pnh, other dervs snares with crippling
- Cap Point(especially HoH): 1 derv can cap in solo a point...so...5 derv -> =|

Maybe an hexway/pressure can defeat easily this teams...like heroway when iway/zergway were the lamer team in that period(3 years ago)...but I think that the meta game before this gay update was fairly balanced.
BBway have weaknesses(staby ward and kill spirits ftw), Invoke need a very good syncro(and complicate was fTW) and them were the most lamer team in HA, but players can defeat this team with good tattics.
With this "Grenthway", a pro skilled balanced can defeat a noob team of derv(NO BRAIN, NO TATTICS, NO SKILL NEEDED)...and i think it's somenthing horrible.

Just press B and look at some HoH ----> 15 Avatars Of Grenth that makes random pressure on random target...rarerly times i saw team that have only 1/2 dervs and this is the new balanced team(but i think this is not lamer, just adapt your team at the new meta).

PLEASE ANET...HA and GvG ARE UNPLAYLABLE...NERF SOMENTHING!

Kaleban · Feb 27, 2011, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

From the amount of meta builds already generating from this update (Grenth Fragspike, EDA Linebackers, GA train, Lyssa train), we need to target the skills that fuel these skills. Maybe we can go back to posting skill change suggestions?

Right, because what we need to do is nerf the Derv back into obscurity and non-usage. God forbid a class added in by ANet gets used for actual play.

According to your logic, any build in the "meta" needs to be nerfed. All this does is change the meta to something else.

How about instead of being butthurt that Dervs are supplanting SOME melee builds, you instead come up with builds that counter them? That IS the point right?

I'm sure there's room SOMEWHERE on someone's bar for Rend Enchantments.

S4br3t00th · Feb 27, 2011, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

I'm sure there's room SOMEWHERE on someone's bar for Rend Enchantments.

Recharge of rend: 20 sec
Recharge of those skills: 10-15 sec
Of course you need to factor the opposing number of dervs...

More like echo, arcane echo, rend there...

Also I don't think anybody wants to see dervishes disapear, but as of now some skills need to be look at to say the least...

deluxe · Feb 27, 2011, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Dervs deal too much damage for the skill they require now.
All the bad melee players are good all of the sudden.

Dirame · Feb 27, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

The reason why I hate dervs is because they've made most eles start using some sort of blind. The other thing is they are annoying with more than one of them. I do have a war build that steam-rolls dervs but that is only on a one-on-one basis and even then its still an epic battle.

Yes, I do think certain skills should be taken away from being flash enchants and certain skills should be toned down but dervs are not undefeatable. There's just such a fetish for them now that you would be hard pressed not to find one. On the day of the update it was waaaay worse. Its the same thing with having too many sins in a team, same thing with having too many mesmers in a team, same thing with having too many eles in a team. The pressure is always intense.

Now here's a list of builds that can steam-roll dervs

E-denial
Dwarven Battle Stance
Dev Hammer
Blind surge (****ing eles)
Anything with knockdown and/or blind

Not by any means the only things that work but they are what I've used. Of course you're probably wondering how the heck I used DBS to win any match but yea... that's not for the faint of heart.

Killed u man · Feb 27, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Well, I think people are overestimating the impact of this derv update.

I mean, dervs are overpowered, and some builds really overpowered, but given the fact they did a complete overhaul aswell as introduced a completely new mechanic, I think they did a good job overal.

As mentioned before, the biggest issues lies with stacking effect, and only several keyskills are overpowered:

IMS + IAS needs to go. Even if it's not overpowered in damage output, any frontliner which has IMS + IAS at the same time is so easy to play the skill/reward ratio will be messed up, regardless of damage output. (For this reason, I still believe Primal Rage and RaO need a nerf, or a rework better said)

All the life stealing that makes the derv go underspirit bond and give them redicilous self healing: Grenth's Aura + Vamp weapon + Avatar of Grenth = 39 self heal with around 60-70 DPS average. (Not including multiple hits) 'Nuff said.

Ebon Dust Aura, Avatar of Grenth, Grenth's Aura, Heart of Fury, Aura Slicer, Twin Moon Sweep and Cripling Sweep.

Start by toning those skills down a little bit (Aka don't Izzystyle smiter's boon them) and we'll go from there.

Apok · Feb 27, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Right, because what we need to do is nerf the Derv back into obscurity and non-usage. God forbid a class added in by ANet gets used for actual play.

According to your logic, any build in the "meta" needs to be nerfed. All this does is change the meta to something else.

How about instead of being butthurt that Dervs are supplanting SOME melee builds, you instead come up with builds that counter them? That IS the point right?

I'm sure there's room SOMEWHERE on someone's bar for Rend Enchantments.

Point out anything in my skill suggestions that would kill the profession.

I'm pretty sure none of those changes would kill them and make them useless. I've already said that the Dervs are not a completely OP class, just certain skills make them way more viable than other melee options. I haven't even SEEN another axe warrior or sword warrior ever since the update.

Dirame · Feb 27, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Point out anything in my skill suggestions that would kill the profession.

I'm pretty sure none of those changes would kill them and make them useless. I've already said that the Dervs are not a completely OP class, just certain skills make them way more viable than other melee options. I haven't even SEEN another axe warrior or sword warrior ever since the update.

There's actually a new build that can be put together due to the change to dervishes when it comes to wars and axes 'cos the build favours the speed of an the axe wielder. The catch is it requires energy and that isn't a warriors forte.

WarcryOfTruth · Feb 27, 2011, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirame

Now here's a list of builds that can steam-roll dervs

E-denial
Dwarven Battle Stance
Dev Hammer
Blind surge (****ing eles)
Anything with knockdown and/or blind

E-denial: if you expect it, Eremite's Zeal

DBS: Really? This is used in PvP?

D Ham: a well placed Lyssa's Haste shuts this down, I've done it many times. Or Mirage Cloak. But, other than an interrupt, or a block, this is probably the best anti Derv.

B Surge: Guiding Hands, then pressure the ele.

Dervishes have a counter for many anti melee situations.