Curse

Xenomortis · Mar 25, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

But whether or not Heart of Fury is overpowered is irrelevant; the point is that downsides for IAS's on melee characters are typically reserved for those that have 33%, not 25%.

Tiger's Fury/Bestial Fury, Aggressive Refrain, Soldier's Fury.
It just so happens that the Derv is the only melee profession with a 25% IAS.

Just because you get 33% more hits instead of 50% more hits doesn't mean there shouldn't be a caveat. Frenzy is probably the best balanced skill in the game precisely because it has such. Is not suffering double damage for a 12% reduction in hits really sensible from a balance perspective?

Dirame · Mar 25, 2011, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

It's called unblockable attacks or strips... He'll even a necro could use rigor mortis. Read ur manual again brohem.

How many instances have you seen a necro carrying rigor, how many unblockable attacks are there in every profession and how many of them remove enchantments?

Dervs may not carry their mirage cloak all the time but the fact remains that if they did, they could keep it up indefinitely as long as they have energy.

Apok · Mar 26, 2011, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I still think Mysticism shouldn't give +armor...

Infectious · Mar 26, 2011, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Dervs are still overpowered.
All this update did was shift people from 2 grenths and an EDA to 3 Balths.
Anet will be able to tell when dervs are balanced because people will run hammer wars with a derv. Until that time, they need nerfing.

TheRakeman · Mar 27, 2011, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infectious

Dervs are still overpowered.
All this update did was shift people from 2 grenths and an EDA to 3 Balths.
Anet will be able to tell when dervs are balanced because people will run hammer wars with a derv. Until that time, they need nerfing.

According to the developer's notes, the goal was to make Dervishes good for pressure on several enemies rather than have the ability to do a lot of damage to a single enemy. I think the problem is that right now the Dervish is capable of doing both. Maybe lower scythe damage / IAS potential and give avatar enchantment end effects an in the area range. Not sure if this would just add more problems though.

Coast · Mar 27, 2011, 10:41 AM // 10:41

press b and watch

Red_Dragon56 · Mar 27, 2011, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I see 2-3 dervishes being used as frontlines instead of warriors. I don't really think that's a bad thing. They're just both frontline now and Dervishes are the new thing.

Tyris Requiem · Mar 27, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56

I see 2-3 dervishes being used as frontlines instead of warriors. I don't really think that's a bad thing. They're just both frontline now and Dervishes are the new thing.

The issue is warrior actually has a learning curve, dervish you win by mashing buttons and its kinda boring.

FoxBat · Mar 27, 2011, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Almost every single build in the MAT playoffs was dervish pressure too. No spikes or defensive balanced or split or anything. The exact midline support varied, some had blood necros, some had illusion mesmers, the only constant is dervs, they are the issue with pressure dominating. (Although fragility may need to be looked at.)

As everyone else mentioned they should just go for the handful of IAS skills. Alot of the dervish skills are fairly well balanced with themselves, and the condition spam thing gives them a unique role compared to warriors. Just kill the scythe damage rate so they aren't straight up primaling everything and still spiking like champs.

Seraphim of Chaos · Mar 28, 2011, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Give Warriors Primal Rage back and maybe they'll see play again.

vinoth · Mar 28, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyris Requiem

The issue is warrior actually has a learning curve, dervish you win by mashing buttons and its kinda boring.

When u have played some form of axe war/ evicerate/shock axe/coward/ primal etc for your entire gw career and looked no further. It takes a while to get into grips with the dervish. With shock axe, you would gain adrelenin, then choose a suitable target and unload. I did the same thing with dervish except i forgot to put the ench up b4, so i did rubbish dmg.

It does have a learning curve, but maybe I am just slow to learn. Idk. The play is much different from my view. However, it was my first time to roll a dervish. I dont usually like to run melees without bulls and frenzy and dchop.

Killed u man · Mar 28, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

You can use your flash enchantments at any time. You can use your attack skills at all times. You keep up Lyssa/Grenth/Balths and Heart of Fury. Bam, you're playing dervish at 99% efficiency.

There is just so many things I can bring up, but dervish is nowhere near playing warrior so I won't even start on that. Even calling (with midline damage support) is easy as fcuk with perma primal with no downside and a AoE dismember doing 80 damage with a 100 damage follow up.

Quote:

It does have a learning curve, but maybe I am just slow to learn. Idk.

But since you're wondering: It's because playing Derv IS kinda like playing IWAY warrior.

Infectious · Mar 28, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Dervs are even easier with an IWAY warrior.
Still helped to be able to hit bulls and d chops with IWAY. You can literally just roll your face across the keyboard to play a derv.

Reverend Dr · Mar 28, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Once you have your scythe attacks and flash enchantments set it plays an awful lot like an assassins. You end up pushing buttons in order.

Missing HB · Mar 31, 2011, 04:41 PM // 16:41

In fact , i'm highly sure TA and HB were the best formats to adapt to GvG. Why? That's easy , TA was like meta against meta , thus it gave you an idea about GvG fights , and HB learnt you tactics and splits.....
Both formats got deleted , so if we talk about learning curve for GvG .....LAck of updates is also highly responsible, but that's an other point...

deluxe · Mar 31, 2011, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's not really this. In fact , i'm highly sure TA and HB were the best formats to adapt to GvG. Why? That's easy , TA was like meta against meta , thus it gave you an idea about GvG fights , and HB learnt you tactics and splits.....
Both formats got deleted , so if we talk about learning curve for GvG .....LAck of updates is also highly responsible, but that's an other point...

Why is it, that in every post you make, there is something about HB...

Azazello · Mar 31, 2011, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Seems odd to complain about the new frontline bars being easier to play when the ability to handle the skillbar itself is secondary to situational awareness, communication and other like skills in importance.

kedde · Apr 01, 2011, 11:01 AM // 11:01

because the idealistic balance utopia would not only have fun, competitive and balanced gameplay, but also requiring in personal skill and team synergy.

While playing a warrior near optimally does require both, playing a dervish at near optimal efficiency requires none. Add to that the fact that playing bad on a dervish holds much less of a penalty to your damage output than it does on a warrior, and you have quite some reasoning for why suddenly substituting them feels retarded.

Sir Thannis · Apr 01, 2011, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I played a few matches of random arena the other day and every team but one expressed displeasure that I was a warrior and not a dervish before the gates even opened.

I received a warmer welcoming on my mesmer.

Azazello · Apr 01, 2011, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

because the idealistic balance utopia would not only have fun, competitive and balanced gameplay, but also requiring in personal skill and team synergy.

While playing a warrior near optimally does require both, playing a dervish at near optimal efficiency requires none. Add to that the fact that playing bad on a dervish holds much less of a penalty to your damage output than it does on a warrior, and you have quite some reasoning for why suddenly substituting them feels retarded.

It seems more like there is a lack of will or ability to determine the depth of gameplay that might be there. People are hooked on warrior frontlines and have been for five years. A certain resistance to new ideas is a bit of a theme among some sections of the gw playerbase.

For instance:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infectious

Dervs are still overpowered.
All this update did was shift people from 2 grenths and an EDA to 3 Balths.
Anet will be able to tell when dervs are balanced because people will run hammer wars with a derv. Until that time, they need nerfing.

Is posted after a couple of weeks, yet:

Quote:

Wars are still overpowered... Anet will be able to tell when wars are balanced because people will run scythe dervs with a war. Until that time, they need nerfing.

Was never posted in the years that dervs were useless.

I mean, if the issue is really that the gameplay is too shallow (apart from the fact that it took everyone months, maybe years to determine the depth of warrior play and we've had mere weeks with the new derv), then rather than talk about nerfs, why not suggest ideas to improve the depth of play? I mean I might be way off with all this, but you have to admit it does look odd that it hasn't occured to anyone to take that step.