Curse

gooeydark · Apr 22, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

In case you missed it, this was the original quote.

I'm not against a nerf to Harrier's Grasp. But I'm against a nerf to Harrier's Grasp solely because it "punish[es] people for kiting".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Bull's requires skill to land reliably, whereas with Harrier's Grasp you auto-attack and win.

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough, but this is what I meant. Brains.

FoxBat · Apr 22, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough, but this is what I meant. Brains.

I wrote A, but I really meant not A, what's wrong with you?

I've seen this argument with winter's chill/weaken knees and it was just as ridiculous then too. There's no good reason kiting should always automatically be the best thing to do. (and it typically still *is* the best thing to do regardless.) Snares of any kind don't exactly make kiting easy, are we going to delete them? The issue for skilled play is the fire-and-forget nature of the skill, not that it inflicts cripple or has an effect on moving foes. If it said "your attack skills cripple moving foes", or had a very limited uptime compared to recharge, suddenly it's far less problematic.

Gabs88 · Apr 23, 2011, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Bflash change is just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up on every level. Apart from that changes makes little difference.. But bflash? WTF, I might as well roll a Me\E domi \ eflash spammer now when doing RA? It's one of those skills that are super powerfull and therefore high energy cost on

pinkeyflower · Apr 23, 2011, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I wrote A, but I really meant not A, what's wrong with you?

I've seen this argument with winter's chill/weaken knees and it was just as ridiculous then too. There's no good reason kiting should always automatically be the best thing to do. (and it typically still *is* the best thing to do regardless.) Snares of any kind don't exactly make kiting easy, are we going to delete them? The issue for skilled play is the fire-and-forget nature of the skill, not that it inflicts cripple or has an effect on moving foes. If it said "your attack skills cripple moving foes", or had a very limited uptime compared to recharge, suddenly it's far less problematic.

Dervish=melee=having to get up close to you. Running away=distance from you and dervish=he can't hit you=less pressure. Would you honestly try and tank an AoB dervish?

The problem with Harrier's Grasp is that it requires no skill to achieve it's effect and the ability to basically perma-cripple at range. Bull's requires timing and anticipation; Coward is an elite. Giving perma-cripple and condition removal to a profession that already does insane amounts of pressure is just stupid.

Groth · Apr 23, 2011, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Dervish Non Elite Cripple 10e 15s Harrier's Grasp: Flash Enchantment Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, attacks against moving foes also [sic] Cripple that foe for 2...8...9 seconds. When you cast this spell, you lose Cripple and 1 other condition.

Warrior Non Elite Cripple 10e 15s Hamstring: Sword Attack. Inflicts Crippled condition (3...13...15 seconds).

Same energy (actually half at 10-11 mysticism), same recharge, longer duration due to constant auto reapply, and two conditions removed...

Hmmm... yep we warriors are outclassed on every skill :P every single one. OH WAIT WE HAVE BACKBREAKER!!! DOH Blind got buffed... again... nevermind.

Edit: forgot to show my tears...

QQ lol

/agree with above poster.

deluxe · Apr 23, 2011, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Please nerf Dervishes into oblivion

They made terrible players awesome at the game with an update.

pinkeyflower · Apr 23, 2011, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Please nerf Dervishes into oblivion

They made terrible players awesome at the game with an update.

But then they would have spent [insert long time for unbalanced update] and accomplished nothing and no-one wants to feel useless. Nerf avatars, Onslaught needs to go, make Lyssa's Haste have a cast time, Harrier's Grasp should die, change vamp mods for scythes to 3 life steal, change a lot of the flash enchantment effects to adjacent, make Heart of Fury have some sort of penalty.

Coast · Apr 23, 2011, 12:13 PM // 12:13

easy, make heart of fury similar to flail, only diff that its in mystisicm and not strength(make ias 33% and make u move slower, just like flail), also make all avatars make u deal piercing dmg

deluxe · Apr 23, 2011, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

easy, make heart of fury similar to flail, only diff that its in mystisicm and not strength(make ias 33% and make u move slower, just like flail), also make all avatars make u deal piercing dmg

Give HoF the same penalty as frenzy.
Frenzy punishes bad players, there needs to be some kind of punishment for bad play on dervishes too.
Dervishes require no thought to play currently, just mash those buttons on recharge.
Give more derv skills downsides like frenzy to promote skillful play.

Coast · Apr 23, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

well, we alrdy got frenzy

AndrewSX · Apr 23, 2011, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Dervishes require no thought to play currently, just mash those buttons on recharge.
Give more derv skills downsides like frenzy to promote skillful play.

This.

12x charrs.

Makkert · Apr 23, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANet developer notes

While we recognize that Dervishes are seeing a lot of use in PvP of late and that some players would prefer larger balance changes to remove them from play, we feel this would be inconsistent with our reasons for improving Dervish in the first place. We'll continue to make adjustments to this class as necessary in the coming months.

.
I would like to emphasize what was said here.
months.
yes, you heard it right, plural.

after seeing dervishes for the past few months, we will be seeing dervishes spam their drawback-less skills not for the coming month, but for the coming months probably.

Considering the last 2 nerfs on the Dervish, I don't think this will be far from the truth.

cantalus · Apr 23, 2011, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Originally Posted by ANet developer notes
While we recognize that Dervishes are seeing a lot of use in PvP of late and that some players would prefer larger balance changes to remove them from play, we feel this would be inconsistent with our reasons for improving Dervish in the first place. We'll continue to make adjustments to this class as necessary in the coming months.

and the reasons were to drive more people away from pvp, to create a massivly dull meta, to make people who don't have the mindset of bbwayers think anet developers don't know what they're doing and certainly don't pvp? i wonder

tonyh · Apr 24, 2011, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I think buffing dervishes was a good idea to encourage inexperienced players to PvP. But they are clearly overpowered in their current state. ANet has done a terrible job with the initial buff and nerfs so far.

I would like to see Dervishes become easier to prot against, to make them easier for lower level monks to deal with. Perhaps nerf IMS skills or make enchantments cost movement speed somehow.

Makkert · Apr 24, 2011, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyh

I think buffing dervishes was a good idea to encourage inexperienced players to PvP.

That is a side effect.
ANet did not intend it when changing the Dervish.

Seraphim of Chaos · Apr 24, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04

was the bflash buff supposed to slow down dervs? if so, grenth's fingers and harrier's grasp say sup