Curse

snikerz · Apr 12, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Dervish: OgCjkyrKLOB4nr296KuVvuXBAA

Pros:

Usage of Scythe, causing AoE up to 3 targets.
Attack +25%, 3 swing buildup
Movement +25%, on command
Increased Attack and Movement can be used together.
Gain 33% More adrenaline
Deal holy damage, mitigating warriors/rangers physical/elemental armor bonus without need to change weapons whilst retaining vampiric mod.
Anti Knockdown
Cripple, 3 second downtime
Deepwound, 4 swing build up, downside is a positive that causes burning, indefinite
Cracked Armor w/ Small AoE, indefinite upkeep
Burning, Indefinite AoE
Bleeding, indefinite upkeep
Self Heal (50) + Unblockable dual attack, 5 swing buildup
High armor 70al + 20al(vs phys) + Mysticism, roughly 100al
Upkeep of instant-cast flash enchantments, indefinite.
Easy to use, just spam whats available.
Blind? no worries, burn/bleed/cripple AoE spam can help

Cons:

2 second cast Balthazar form.

Have i missed anything here?

I've not seen a more overpowered build in my 6 yrs playing guildwars.
Makes me sad to use my warrior.

i farm baddies · Apr 12, 2011, 03:07 AM // 03:07

its getting nerfed before the mAT just wait a bit longer.

Chthon · Apr 12, 2011, 03:25 AM // 03:25

@OP: OK, so how do you fix it w/out turning dervs back into a steaming pile?

Take the cripple off Thorns? Swap the cripple and bleed? Take the IMS off Fleeting? Revert Wearying? It's easy to criticize, but hard to balance.

*lemming* · Apr 12, 2011, 03:45 AM // 03:45

There would be absolutely nothing of value lost by turning dervs back into a pile of shit.

snikerz · Apr 12, 2011, 03:51 AM // 03:51

i'm thinking the +25% attack and movement needs tuning, being able to use them at the same time is rather potent, you need elites to achieve the same thing, simply make fleeting stability a stance

tone down the burn to 3 seconds

instead of holy dmg, do fire, doing this can lay the foundation down for many counters, such as wards

nerfing those 3 aspects would keep the derv in line i recon

FoxBat · Apr 12, 2011, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

@OP: OK, so how do you fix it w/out turning dervs back into a steaming pile?

Nuke the free simul 25% IAS/IMS. Or they could just send IAS back to the stone age, like 10 or 15%. Let dervs spam condis and warriors swing weapons hard.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 12, 2011, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I have been waiting for this thread to pop up. I thought it would have a long time ago. I think this is by far the worst skill update i have ever seen.

Dervs are beyond OP they are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing godlike. Its gross watching one derv wipe 2 decent warriors and 2 mesmers solo. The lifesteal avatar of grenth provides needs nerfed, and being able to maintain an avatar non-stop is just phucked up. It has made warriors the new paragon and the game should be called DERV WARS instead of guild wars.

Flash enchantments, this is also stupid, not being able to interrupt an enchantment is just unfair. Rangers cant interrupt that shit no matter how lucky they get.

The AoE is by far more powerful than anything an elementalist has ever had. Eles are now obsolete if not for the ranged blind, burn, and snare.

I thought the sin update was bad when seeping wound was buffed. But this shit is by far worse. One derv can solo 3 warriors with the blind shit and kill them with snares, degen, and scythe mastery easy. Something wrong here?

Maybe anet should just buff everything else to the derv level. BIG DAMAGE!!!!

depeche · Apr 12, 2011, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Its gross watching one derv wipe 2 decent warriors and 2 mesmers solo.

Lol, that would be 2 terrible warriors and mesmers if they cant kill 1 grenth derv.

I do agree on the fact that the derv's are too strong at the moment and should be toned down.
But the way u make it seem is exaggerated.

Reverend Dr · Apr 12, 2011, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by depeche

Lol, that would be 2 terrible warriors and mesmers if they cant kill 1 grenth derv.

In all fairness, when dervs are concerned it only takes one bad kiter to screw it up for the legitimate warriors. They are forced between either taking the scythe AoE damage or repositioning and losing attacks.

AndrewSX · Apr 12, 2011, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Dervs were quite weak in high Pve, but was also not optimal in pvp for the cast of enchs, that allows monks(for example) to kite away w/o problems while the derv recast his enchs. Flashents fixed this, but getting the HM power of derv in pvp(think RA 4vs4) is really unbalanced.
On the other hand, eles are balanced around the pvp(water snares usefulness, damage/armor penetration, wards and such), and the result is that eles sucks hard in HM pve.

Missing HB · Apr 12, 2011, 08:10 AM // 08:10

The fun fact is that i'm pretty sure they made dervish update so that inexped PvP people have a build very easy to use to win with, but in fact those still get rolled by higher exped people using it ....

I dont really know what attitude to take toward this to be honest.. If dervish update didn't have such an impact , we would be complaining about the fact that they don't know how to balance skills again....

On the other hand , maybe they should have turned down everything , damage AND defense skills... People were already using Bsurge , blurred , snares , war stances and all stuff pre-derv update , now there's finally something that allow to kill faster and make the fight not last 30mn. But this , like it was said n made the warrior look terrible in comparaison....

Only heart of fury nerf would have been a good move for dervishs in my opinion....

urania · Apr 12, 2011, 08:13 AM // 08:13

they need to smiter boon several of their insta cast enchants (aura of thorns, lyssas haste) and their hilariously easy way of maintaining and reapplying cripple, along with their ias (HoF) and ofc, the stupid avatars.
actually, they would be best of reverting everything they've changed.

bungusmaximus · Apr 12, 2011, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Lolthread, seriously, everyone with 2 braincells can see that high-end pvp is totally FUBAR at the moment. did we ask for a dumb update like this? no. PvP was already in a really rough state due to inactivity, and now the rest is effectively shot to shit by this 'oh so badly needed' derv update. Example, in HA people used to run 10-ish different builds, and all you see now are r10+ running triple derv and dual migraine mesmers, I mean, zzzzzzzzzzz.

LOLupdate /endrant

I have no idea how to fix this horror tbh. but there are a things that are broken beyond belief:

Lyssas haste: should actually HIT target in order to interrupt something
Harrier's grasp: just nuke that skill to uselesness, thank you
Aura of thorns: increase recharge to 20 seconds
Lyssa's assault: remove half activation time

In my honest opinion dervishes shouldn't be able to interrupt shit at all, they already hit hard enough,. Try and use a ward or a grasping earth on a dervish for example. Not only will it let you eat huge doomage numbers, it will likely get you interrupted as well.

The lolcripplewars are just annoying. It takes all clever movement and positioning out of the game. Hell why woud you kite to begin with when you're permanently crippled?

If people wanna keep dervs the way they are, remove the frigging AoE hits, ever tried to bodyblock a dervish? will effectively get you AND the person you want to save killed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

The fun fact is that i'm pretty sure they made dervish update so that inexped PvP people have a build very easy to use to win with, but in fact those still get rolled by higher exped people using it ....

They should stop trying to cater to bad players, it's so useless. the GW community more and more becomes a lazy bunch of title farmers, I wouldn't be surprised if people only play to farm their hall of monuments.

good example of what type of player is happy about the update, I quote me in RA:

Me: I'm using barbs on monk X
derv: I'm using avatar of derp: WELCOME TO 2011 RETARD, GO PVE!!!

of course guild wars needs that kind of player to make the game more fun

Tyris Requiem · Apr 12, 2011, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Just nerf them please anet zzzz. Frontline has turned from a high skill area (war) to a shitty spamfest (derv). Its soul destroying looking at obs and seeing shitty trip dervish everywhere. =/

AndrewSX · Apr 12, 2011, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

If people wanna keep dervs the way they are, remove the frigging AoE hits, ever tried to bodyblock a dervish? will effectively get you AND the person you want to save killed.

Well, that's a problem imo. I mean, when u use all the anti-meele u can against a war, he's shut down till he remove blind/faintenderness/blurred/emphaty and so on. A blind war can't hurt anyone.
As derv, u just keep spam. Maybe u stop to auto attack to do not trigger punish hexes that much, but is all. Keep spam/strip ench, and ignore the normal counters. Spam AoE conditions (2-3, even more) while wait the counters go down/removed, and gg.

kedde · Apr 12, 2011, 11:12 AM // 11:12

What lemming said.

urania · Apr 12, 2011, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

What lemming said.

the funny part is they werent a pile of crap before the update. a d/w ws derv with wild blow, d/p eda (though the melee range nerf finally toned it down a bit) and d/w or d/mo pious renewal healers with mirrage cloak were all broken builds before the update already, so idk why they needed a godmode and a complete revamp to start with.

wilebill · Apr 12, 2011, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Dervish is ok. If you think OP, then ask for adjustment to other characters. Whenever ANet nerfs more players leave game. Don't need that.

Bungusmaximus I hear you. But this is a new era of gaming when players have new expectations that ANet is trying to meet.

My two cents.

urania · Apr 12, 2011, 12:16 PM // 12:16

"new era of gaming" "adjustments to OTHER characters"
^lol'ed at that.

back to pve with you.

Khaal · Apr 12, 2011, 01:47 PM // 13:47

The new dervish mechanics are just gimmicky and weird (and very anet). Dervishes are kinda the new sin and I have seen way more glass dervishes since the update than I ever did before. I used to like my dervish, now he feels like the only way to play him is annoying. Meh.