Curse

floor · May 24, 2011, 01:22 PM // 13:22

This might seem like an unusual post given there are certainly other professions who (still) need more desperate nerfs. But does anyone else have an opinion on nerfing mesmers??

Im particularly talking about the damage they output. At present a mesmer can output more damage than an ele on spike, twinned with possessing shatter enchantment AND shutdown all on the same bar. Imo this is far too much for one profession to be able to squeeze onto the same bar without even having to tap into a secondary profession.

Seeing as mesmers were always designed as a disruptive class, i dont think they have any reason to have damage whatsoever. I'd rather see power leak reverted to steal 21 energy, p block reverted to increased shutdown, even throw 10s onto the lenth of time skills get diverted for if u want to so that people still feel mesmers are viable to use.

They are/were a disruptive class and thats what they should be, and that ONLY. I just dont feel mesmers should be able to have the ridiculous amount of damage that they do have currently, combined with the shutdown/shatters they possess.

note: i should probably point out for those in the dark, that the bar this post is predominantly aimed at is the one with : Esurge, mind wrack, shatter delusions, shatter enchant. = 300 damage. As well as diversion and maybe shame + an interupt all on the bar for good measure. Its rly annoying to monk against.

ErrantVenture · May 24, 2011, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Mesmers have changed roles in the past year from a shutdown class to a dps/split class. That in itself isn't bad. What's bad is that all of their massive damage skills are armor ignoring and that they've retained all their shutdown ability. Rangers got their ass handed to them a year and a half ago because they had the ability to pack utility + big ranged damage on the same bar. Anet responding by removing their ability output raw damage and assigned rangers a purely utility role in PvP. That's why I was REALLY surprised when the mesmer buffs came and gave them big damage to go with their shutdown capabilities.

tl;dr Changing mesmers to a damage class is okay since shutdown has become a much less important part of PvP in the past few years since passive defense (wards, aegis, bsurge, etc) has been nerfed so thoroughly. What's not okay is that their damage is armor ignoring and that they still retain powerful shutdown capabilities.

floor · May 24, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36

ur post actually sums up the problem nicely, i was struggling to put it into words. If mesmers had to have one of their capabilites reduced though, it cant be their shutdown imo. Thats what a mesmer is, shutdown. They certainly need a damage reduction, at present its beyond a joke.

The Armour ignoring is a very good point, hadnt actually occurred to me when i wrote it.
thx for reply.

Coast · May 24, 2011, 02:03 PM // 14:03

make e surge drain more energy but reduce dmg per e loss to 5 instead of 9?
so at 14dom:13e loss resulting in 65dmg while its now 9e loss and 81dmg
15dom:14/70 vs 10/90
16dom:15/75 vs 11/99
mind wrack reduced uptime and reduced dmg when energy hits 0
so at 14dom: 19sec duration 24dmg per trigger and 47dmg when energy hits 0
15dom: 20sec duration 25dmg per trigger and 50dmg when energy hits 0
16dom: 21sec duration 26dmg per trigger and 53dmg when energy hits 0
shatter delusions: dmg halved if target is suffering from a condition

+changes floor suggested, maybe reduce e cost on p block(10e) to help people pick shutdown mesmers and make it 15e again(but fast) if elite is showing up as too strong.

Missing HB · May 24, 2011, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

i should probably point out for those in the dark, that the bar this post is predominantly aimed at is the one with : Esurge, mind wrack, shatter delusions, shatter enchant. = 300 damage. As well as diversion and maybe shame + an interupt all on the bar for good measure. Its rly annoying to monk against.

I was already QQing about this 1 year ago when people ran double mesmer in HA , and were more likely just pressing 1234567 on opponent monks and still getting epic result....Yet nothing was done...

Considering builds used today , it would be quite a joke if they were nerfed now , but i still agree the bar on itself is too OP and not fun at all to heal against...

SheilaWhiteclaw · May 24, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

i don't think mesmers should be nerfed, but ele and othe runderrated proffesion gain buffs.... Ele unfortunately is kinda underrated now and needs a desperate buff.... aswell as with rangers.

*lemming* · May 24, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheilaWhiteclaw

i don't think mesmers should be nerfed, but ele and othe runderrated proffesion gain buffs.... Ele unfortunately is kinda underrated now and needs a desperate buff.... aswell as with rangers.

That's what created the mesmer problem in the first place.

Xenomortis · May 24, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheilaWhiteclaw

i don't think mesmers should be nerfed, but ele and othe runderrated proffesion gain buffs.... Ele unfortunately is kinda underrated now and needs a desperate buff.... aswell as with rangers.

In PvP? Are you serious?
Kill Mind Wrack? It adds damage with ESurge and fuels Shatter, has a 1 second cast time, costs 5 energy and is on a short recharge.

UnicornStampede · May 25, 2011, 12:37 AM // 00:37

spike mesmers (shatter delusions)=bad

shutdown mes (pblock)=good

problem: bots

kedde · May 25, 2011, 04:57 PM // 16:57

No, the problem is that skills are so powerful that you can run full skillbars with basically only one attribute. Add to that the power of all the other skills allowing you to capitalize on the former issue much quicker than you should be able to. There's your actual problem.

Il Living Il · May 25, 2011, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheilaWhiteclaw

i don't think mesmers should be nerfed, but ele and othe runderrated proffesion gain buffs.... Ele unfortunately is kinda underrated now and needs a desperate buff.... aswell as with rangers.

eles underrated? need a desperate buff? errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

tealspikes · May 25, 2011, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Give shatter delusions the same treatment as wastrel's demise and overload. In fact, give every mesmer skill that does straight spike damage that treatment except for two - energy surge and shatter enchantment. Both are very versatile and well designed skills that should remain as possible spike assists. Perhaps for e-surge lower the damage and raise something else so people will have more reason to use it for it's other functions (aoe pressure, energy pressure) and not purely for spiking.

ErrantVenture · May 25, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Give shatter delusions the same treatment as wastrel's demise and overload. In fact, give every mesmer skill that does straight spike damage that treatment except for two - energy surge and shatter enchantment. Both are very versatile and well designed skills that should remain as possible spike assists. Perhaps for e-surge lower the damage and raise something else so people will have more reason to use it for it's other functions (aoe pressure, energy pressure) and not purely for spiking.

Shatter delusions isn't even that great a problem without the spammable fuel from mind wrack. Bring the recharge on it up to 15s imho.

Arnold Killmachine · May 29, 2011, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

(...) the spammable fuel from mind wrack. Bring the recharge on it up to 15s imho.

This pretty much fixes the problem of pew-pew mesmer.

@tealspikes
and why does hex-overs use esurge? for it's e-denial/aoe pressure.
e-surge is fine as it is.
kill mindwrack instead

I Angra I · May 30, 2011, 05:50 AM // 05:50

The only reason you see mesmers so often is BECAUSE they have that much damage. If you take that away you won't see them anymore (which I'm not saying is good or bad, they do deal a ton of damage, you're right), you would have to buff their shutdown if you want to see shutdown mesmers come back, because they are unfortunately not useful anymore in their previous shutdown-type state without contributing the damage that they do to the team.

bungusmaximus · May 30, 2011, 09:50 PM // 21:50

mesmers, hmmm?
lul blackout....probably the worst OP skill out there, since it's still the same but all the damage in the game is a lot bigger then it used to be. Simply can't afford the disable time anymore in many cases.

*lemming* · May 30, 2011, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Shatter Delusions is stronger than the strongest version of Lamentation.

It's not even its fault, though. Mind Wrack just happens to combine perfectly with it.

Killed u man · May 30, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Shatter Delusions is stronger than the strongest version of Lamentation.

What the f*ck are you on about?

I think Lamentation right after buff was:

E5 C 1/4 R15

If target foe is within earshot of a spirit, that foe takes 106 damage.

Nothing will ever compete with the "original" lam...

*lemming* · May 30, 2011, 10:57 PM // 22:57

5/.25/20. I looked it up.

You can't stack multiple copies of Shatter Delusions like you could with Lamentation. Beyond that, though?

The original standard for spike skills that did ~100 damage was 2 seconds (Lightning Orb and Obsidian Flame come to mind, in particular.) Over time, that's completely gone out the window.

Killed u man · May 30, 2011, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

5/.25/20. I looked it up.

You can't stack multiple copies of Shatter Delusions like you could with Lamentation. Beyond that, though?

The original standard for spike skills that did ~100 damage was 2 seconds (Lightning Orb and Obsidian Flame come to mind, in particular.) Over time, that's completely gone out the window.

The fact that lamentation is a rit skill makes it the better, as rits have access to massive defence. (Ritspike)

But even ignoring that, shatter delusions requires you to have mindwrack aswell (or Phantom Pain) which is spike-giveaway. Obviously it's often used in a balanced-ish spike build with a water ele so the spike giveaway isn't that obvious, but still, the fact that you need mind wrack is kinda "meh"...

Obviously, shatter delusions is an amazing skill (AoE says "hi"), but comparing it to lamentation would not do lamentation any justice...