Curse

violence · Jun 12, 2011, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I've been playing pvp for a long time, and I'm r10 and g6, having played alot of monk in ta, ha, ra and gvg. But when I try to monk in ra now it's almost impossible. And I get called a "noob monk" constantly.

Has ra become that much harder? Or am I really that bad? Even though I've played for so long? It seems like I do everything right but I'm still bad and noob. And it's pretty discouraging...

J3az · Jun 12, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Don't just think about yourself; there are other factors such as your other 3 team members, the opposing team, and even in-depth as your teams skills/builds. If 3 of your members aren't running any partial heals or defense or are running skills like frenzy then thats why. Plus players in any setting of any MMO that have healers blame the healer even when they are perfectly fine.

I'm not letting you off the chain, but if what you say is true then consider those variables.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 12, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Coming from someone significantly higher ranked than you in both formats (and I'm sure Karla might also have something to say on the arena topic), I'd say that you're bad if:

1) You can't use your sets confidently. That is, you can't stop e-denial using a low-set, you don't swap to your high set when required, you can't quickly swap back to your shield set afterwards, and you die on your casting sets. 90% of monks reduce their longevity in this fashion. It's also not a "good" behavior to swap on "every" cast.
2) You eat Bull's Strike. Most of the "good" monks have a solution for this. They simply don't move if the warrior has Bull's Strike off-recharge and until a stance is available. Trying to land Bull's Strike on any practiced arena monk is one of the more frustrating experiences in Guild Wars.
3) Your bar doesn't have Vigorous Spirit. This skill is one of the best passive anti-pressure skills in the game. It's just as critical as Word of Healing or Patient Spirit.
4) You don't have two hex removals (or one of them is Spotless Mind). The best non-Veil hex removals are Cure Hex (spot removal, healing) or Deny Hexes (with Divine Spirit). Spotless Mind is bad since it doesn't remove an uncovered hex until five seconds after the fact. This just doesn't work versus uncovered short duration hexes. It absolutely doesn't work versus covered short duration hexes. It also always requires a Vigorous cover if the other team has any decent enchantment removal.
5) You have condition removal. The reason for this is that condition spam has become far more than monks can deal with even in the short-term. Any solution (removal, disruption, strips) has to come from a midline template. Condition removal of any kind is just an energy sink. Dismiss Condition and Mend Condition rarely remove anything critical that doesn't get reapplied, and the heal is junk. If you're dead set on a condition removal for some insane reason, I would consider Draw Conditions and you tank the conditions with Disciple's Insignias or Mending Touch (not both).
6) You should have Disciple's Insignias (you could tentatively argue Blessed) on every armor piece, q6/q7 (prot / heal) or q7/q8 (pure heal) shields in the current four primary damage types and preferably all seven. You can get away with only two spears but you should have at least four: +5 Defense or +30 Health, each with -5E and +5E or 10% HSR.
7) If you're using a pure heal setup with Vigorous Spirit, Divine Spirit, and Deny Hexes, make sure you have the proper staff or martial and focus setup (if you decide for some reason to neglect 40% HCT on the Deny in favor of 30% HSR instead).
8) Use Guardian properly. I honestly wouldn't use Guardian in arenas, but I know that some people swear by it. Most of the time, Guardian is also an energy sink that isn't worth using unless you're confident it slows damage to manageable levels. In short, your damage mitigated has to either save the target from dying in a situation where pre-patient / Word of Healing is not sufficient, or it has to be practical in a direct energy to healing comparison versus Word of Healing / Patient. In most cases (but not all), situation #1 is the same as situation #2.
9) You don't know how to pre-patient and pre-WoH effectively. I've watched arena monks drop easy saves because they don't properly judge incoming damage and fail the pre-patient -> WoH sequence. A focus on making your heals as efficient as you can pulls you into "the ZB trap." You have to be comfortable in using Patient Spirit to keep red bars stable even if it's not energy efficient.
10) You stand in the center of the other team like a bad tombs or arena monk. Alternatively, you kite in full circles through the other team. I know that sometimes you have to run through the other team to establish superior positioning relative to your team, but this does require that you run through the other team and set your feet about in a decent place.

KotCR · Jun 12, 2011, 02:30 PM // 14:30

What they said.

There's alot of bad players in RA (particulary those married to PvX and overly-devoted to meta for other formats), who don't bring any form of defense or protection for themselves or allies, nor do they take any care to avoid incoming damage (like running headfirst into 4 Eles, Rangers or Paragons without taking any damage mitigation measures, which can be as simple as effective kiting or terrain usage), just expecting you to heal away through it (then dying almost instantly when funnily enough you can't keep up with their recklessness).

The key to success in RA tends to be to have your entire party using balanced and mostly self-sufficient builds, as there isn't any aspects you can count on having in your team in RA, and alot of players fail to realise this and use builds suited more to HA or GvG only that require the correct support to be effective. So, when your team doesn't have that support, that's why the loss.

In short, it's probably not entirely your fault (because they probably shouldn't go into RA expecting to get a Monk anyway, and should be prepared to operate without one anyhow - it's called 'Random' for a reason, syncers aside...), as mentioned, there is alot of elements to consider, and many players don't do themselves any favours. Like most people, you probably aren't perfect yourself either, but I would ignore their comments (unless they actually do include constructive and intelligent advice, such as Sun gave above) and try not to take them personally.

AndrewSX · Jun 12, 2011, 02:39 PM // 14:39

More Pvers in RA = more ppl ready to yell "n00b" to everyone.

Can't say anything more than above posts (i don't monk in pvp at all atm.), other than might not all your fault(which is the thing you can correct), and don't take those yellers too seriously generally.

mathiastemplar · Jun 12, 2011, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I doubt you are bad...

Since the update, a lot of pve'ers have come to RA. This means lots of people with 400-500hp, who overextend like crazy.. And blame it all on the monk.
Don't take "noob" personally...

If you're a good monk, only the bad players will call you a noob. Decent players will clearly be able to see if you had a chance or not.

I would like to comment on what Sun Fired Blank said about conditions.
Draw conditions is a must-have. There is simply too much Blind spam in RA to ignore this spell.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 12, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

You don't fight blind spam with Draw Conditions on a monk. You fight blindbots by reducing their output from the midline. A viable solution has to be sustainable and should be proactive. Draw Conditions is neither.

mathiastemplar · Jun 12, 2011, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

You don't fight blind spam with Draw Conditions on a monk. You fight blindbots by reducing their output from the midline. A viable solution has to be sustainable and should be proactive. Draw Conditions is neither.

Yep, that sounds like the optimal thing. But mind you we're talking RA.
Also very helpful against Deep Wound (and all other conditions ofcourse).

awry · Jun 12, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Well, my personal thought is that if I can keep you alive for 2-3 minutes, but if you can't do anything in that time span after that, it's no longer my fault. I'll run my energy down by watching the enemy cast blind and remove instantly to give u a clear shot, but if you can't manage to capitalize on the 10-15 sec window i give you then, well, not my problem.

I've tried not bringing condition removal, just doesn't work. Covers are abundant sure, but I'm not going to be prepared for the occasional daze gimmick, snared with cripple in a bad situation. If i'm paying attention, I can usually remove it fast enough before the cover hits. Also, unless you're synching, hoping your teammates can cover conditions/interrupt/deal is like going to the bus stop with no wallet and hoping some stranger will give me a free ride.

Guardian's good if you've got a good position, it buys time for the other guy to switch target if they're melee to someone else. Or else they gotta swing and whiff at you for 5 seconds(I actually bring an enchant modifier cause i love guardian so much)

urania · Jun 12, 2011, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by violence

I've been playing pvp for a long time, and I'm r10 and g6, having played alot of monk in ta, ha, ra and gvg. But when I try to monk in ra now it's almost impossible. And I get called a "noob monk" constantly.

Has ra become that much harder? Or am I really that bad? Even though I've played for so long? It seems like I do everything right but I'm still bad and noob. And it's pretty discouraging...

wad? you actually listen and >believe< the crap all the morons, scrubs, shitters and idiots in [r]etards' [a]arena say?

go have your head examined.

RA is a trash place where trash players will trash everyone else, bad and good alike.
I get flamed round the clock because i do /resign and go suicide when i see nonsense beyond belief or just utter garbage/troll builds in my team.
RA is honestly the last place to question yourself whether you're good or not.
eden (sun fired blank) summed up most of the things you might be doing wrong, but at the end, it's mostly up to luck - double luck, to be exact:

a) luck with opponents (facing a 3/4 or 4/4 synch will usually end in your random team getting stomped, mostly because they'll have the right setup for that; facing random and mostly no mo teams will let even a half decent team easily score a 25 win streak)

b) luck with team mates (pretty self explanatory, as the other point i suppose)

if you have played a monk long enough, then you should know (most of the time, at least) when it was mainly your fault, when your team mates were at fault and when you were both to blame.
usually, its a mix of both. but in ra, its mostly your horrid team mates' fault. along with the usual buildwars, that is (i've had this happen to me a few times already: played with full physical setup with me on melandrus boon prot with draw vs dual blinder team with one melee - guaranteed loss [also thanks to me deciding to drag on a team with at least one subpar melee], because i'd just run out of energy after 4-5 mins; but while that team is able to grief out such physical loaden setups, it stands no chances vs a hexover or 2 monks).

last but not least, this thread reeks of trolling.

shadeblade47 · Jun 12, 2011, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Monking in RA is dependent on your team really. You obviously need to know the basics- kiting, shield sets, etc. You also need to have skills to prevent KD or block melee attacks because KD is a big thing when it comes to shutting down monk. Lastly, make sure your build doesn't suck. If you haven't monked for a while in RA then you probably aren't used to the powercreep metas and all that whatnot.

Btw, posting your build may help.

violence · Jun 12, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

if you have played a monk long enough, then you should know (most of the time, at least) when it was mainly your fault, when your team mates were at fault and when you were both to blame.

It just happens so often. Even if I know I did everything I could, and even when I see my team fail with obvious things, I'm always a noob when my team dies. And I guess after a while it's hard not to start believing in it. It probably has a bit to do with my personality of easily taking things personally though.

Ximvotn · Jun 12, 2011, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Monk requires proper hotkeys and targeting constantly. Never to listen to anyone in RA ever... especially if they don't have a secondary. Try setting up your interface and keyboard in a different fashion though RA shouldn't require that serious of a setup, but it may help.

fowlero · Jun 12, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by violence

It just happens so often. Even if I know I did everything I could, and even when I see my team fail with obvious things, I'm always a noob when my team dies. And I guess after a while it's hard not to start believing in it. It probably has a bit to do with my personality of easily taking things personally though.

I'm guessing the ones calling you noob were probably the ones tanking massive damage in their 40/40.

Twin Blade Warriror · Jun 12, 2011, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadeblade47

Monking in RA is dependent on your team really.

this right here...if your team sucks period, dont blame yourself..ignore them if they call you noob. you probably arent since you are r10..g6, you are probably just matching up with idiots

urania · Jun 12, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

I'm guessing the ones calling you noob were probably the ones tanking massive damage in their 40/40.

in their staff set, you mean.

Jet · Jun 12, 2011, 10:29 PM // 22:29

No your not bad. RA is a place for sore losers who will whine, complain, and rage when they lose. As a monk myself, the problem with RA is that the players don't know how to mitigate damage. They sit on their 40/40 sets and expects the monk to heal/prot them no matter how reckless they are. Another problem with RA is that your teammates have no form of self defense skills. They expect you to heal/prot them at all cost even if it drains your energy pool. Also you got crappy midliners that can't pressure and shut down important skills. An example is a match I was in yesterday. Had a terrible ranger who was running magebane with no condition spread. I asked him why don't you have condition spread and he says it's because I'm running magebane... Not only did he not have any condition spread, he couldn't interrupt anything even though he had magebane, savage, and dshot. The opponents had no monk on their team and the match dragged on until the remaining seconds. This eventually caused our team to lose. The bottom line is that monking well in RA truly depends on your team and if they know how to play. Seriously, don't even bother RA because it will just cause you so much grief.

AndroBubbles · Jun 12, 2011, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I'm one of those people who swears by Guardian. The thing people forget about this spell is that it not only helps prevent damage, it helps prevent utility and shutdown via KD/interrupts from reaching key members of your team. If that ranger is camping your mesmer or ele, just pop a Guardian. Hammer warrior linebacking your warrior? Pop a guardian. Anything you cast Guardian (effectively) on almost instantly has greater output. I guess it's just second nature to me since I really only ever use a prot monk, but I feel naked without Guardian on my bar.

One thing though: If you're going to use it, save yourself a lot of grief and bring a 40/20/20 staff for prot.

Everything else that can really be considered important has already been addressed.

spray04 · Jun 13, 2011, 12:03 AM // 00:03

So after all that Sun Fired Blank, can I ask what is the build you use?

I Jonas I · Jun 13, 2011, 02:01 AM // 02:01

EDEN ECHOESSSSSSSSS. Yeah Sun Fired Blank is pretty good at this game, listen to him.

@Spray04: I think that the standard RA Monk bar that he is refering to is:

Patient Spirit
WoH
Vig Spirit
Divine Spirit
Signet of rejuv? I dunno
Deny Hexes
Bonetti's Defense
Doylak Signet

That being said, I think that the spearing+bonetti's+doylak monk is super boring to play, so when I monk I run a Mo/A and teleport around cause that's pretty fun. That and dervishes don't really knock you down too much, so at least in this RA metagame it isn't super imperative to have balanced stance or doylak. The rest of the KD's you should be able to prevent with proper positioning/ guardian usage/ return. For when you screw up, there's always dark escape. This bar isn't optimal, of course, but it's 2011 so who cares