Curse

doomfodder · Apr 28, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

The Hammer sword warrior is really really fun to play and suprisingly effective (at least, it was before dervishes completely outclassed every other melee profession).

I wish it' weren't so, but I have to agree. Unless U get the right jump, Dervs can own any other melee that doesnt continuously block 1v1 using Blind + crip/cond + HP gain with each attack...

but back on topic...
Here's a "fun" RA Nec build that gets me dissed ALOT cause it's not meta
The first 3 skills do between 200 + 320 damage to your target (depending on foes armor). It plays kinda like an Ele (using the minions for E Mgt + the bonus of distracting foes targeting your team).

16 DM, 13 SR with 40/40 DM set + Def set + 60HP set
Deathly Chill
Deathly Swarm
Icy Veins
Angorodons Gaze
SOLS
Animate Bone Minions
Opt Slot: Hexers Vigor or Dash or FF or ....
Res Sig

I Jonas I · Apr 29, 2011, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Oh and to people complaining about meta builds: The skills that you take are just tools that let you accomplish your objective. By complaining about meta builds you're saying that the best set of tools out there aren't good because everyone else uses them. That is retarded. By taking a set of tools that aren't optimized you're basically bringing a knife to a battle where your opponent has automatic weaponry. Yes, your knife can theoretically accomplish the same objective as the machine gun (i.e. kill people), but the gun is just a lot better at it.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 29, 2011, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

Oh and to people complaining about meta builds: The skills that you take are just tools that let you accomplish your objective. By complaining about meta builds you're saying that the best set of tools out there aren't good because everyone else uses them. That is retarded. By taking a set of tools that aren't optimized you're basically bringing a knife to a battle where your opponent has automatic weaponry. Yes, your knife can theoretically accomplish the same objective as the machine gun (i.e. kill people), but the gun is just a lot better at it.

I'm not complaining about "tools." I'm just saying when it comes to pvp we should think instead of following what everyone else is doing. If builds make observe in HA or GvG more than once they start to become a meta build. I think there are a lot of overlooked builds that work very well that are shunned because they are not the current meta.

I want people to understand it is ok to use builds that are not meta and it is ok to make new team sets and new builds. Players should not feel pressured to play a certain build or team set. I love guild wars because it allows creativity in the builds. If not for that it would be a game long forgotten.

Missing HB · Apr 29, 2011, 07:16 AM // 07:16

But for HA it's quite diferent you know... Why would people waste 1 hour to form some original team when they could just form up a team with for example 5 dervishs and 3 monks in 5mn and still get correct results ??

I agree with you , i also like creativity, but it's about changing players behaviour , which isn't really easy, especially the way the game is

*lemming* · Apr 29, 2011, 07:20 AM // 07:20

If you're playing with friends, talk to them and they'll more often than not be willing to try something you're genuinely convinced is good.

If you're playing with pubs, you're already handicapped. What's in it for them to risk playing something untested?

Sorn Xarann · Apr 29, 2011, 08:50 AM // 08:50

My guild has gotten to below rank 350 without running any traditional meta. Oops?

This is probably why we aren't top 100 right? Right?

infi · Apr 29, 2011, 01:19 PM // 13:19

you can make something contrary to the meta just be sure it will work and provide the whole tactic stuff for your team build.

Reverend Dr · Apr 29, 2011, 05:50 PM // 17:50

There is a very big difference between saying you don't like a bar and won't run it and saying you don't like a bar and ask if they have enough time to craft something.

Ghost Dog · Apr 29, 2011, 07:10 PM // 19:10

So to deviate from cookie cutter builds you made cookie cutter easy mode sins? What a breath of fresh air.

kedde · Apr 30, 2011, 01:30 PM // 13:30

To instate creativity, you need incentives to actually risk bad results with a chance of getting it right. There currently are none.

icedwhitemocha · May 01, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

I think there are a lot of overlooked builds that work very well that are shunned because they are not the current meta.

And why are they not the current meta? Because they are not as good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

I want people to understand it is ok to use builds that are not meta and it is ok to make new team sets and new builds. Players should not feel pressured to play a certain build or team set. I love guild wars because it allows creativity in the builds. If not for that it would be a game long forgotten.

This line of thinking would be perfectly valid, and I would endorse it, were Guild Wars not six years old. Everything is understood and discovered at this point. Granted, after every (major) skill update there's a brief period of unrest/creativity that establishes these so-hated meta builds. But once smart players discover the most effective builds, why bother with anything else?

I think it might boil down to your placing emphasis on having fun over winning. Truly competitive PvP is simply not for you if that's the case. The good news is that there are other people like you out there.

And just to add +1 cynicism to my post:

Reverend Dr · May 01, 2011, 04:16 AM // 04:16

It really feels like the whole powercreep over the last 3 years has really brought down build diversity.

Maybe I'm just looking back with nostalgia, but there seemed to be a lot more diversity, not just in "balance" compositions but in the number and type of gimmick teams back during the prophecies/faction cycle.

Missing HB · May 01, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Players aren't encouraged aswell to play original builds ,whether those are good or bad... just take a look at MAT's winners builds , which is completly classic and meta... Then players press B and know what to play...

*lemming* · May 01, 2011, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Players are encouraged to play what wins in any game that has a veneer of competition. The fact that meta builds in GW are so hard to beat has less to do with player creativity and more to do with game/skill design, compared to, say, MtG.

Missing HB · May 01, 2011, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Players are encouraged to play what wins in any game that has a veneer of competition. The fact that meta builds in GW are so hard to beat has less to do with player creativity and more to do with game/skill design, compared to, say, MtG.

That's the problem... In the past , brains mattered more than strengh in GvG or HB , meaning that strong players could win even with the crapest build ....Today , you have to run meta bars if you want to beat beginners using dervishs... seriously...

Im in SPAMADAN · May 01, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's the problem... In the past , brains mattered more than strengh in GvG or HB , meaning that strong players could win even with the crapest build ....Today , you have to run meta bars if you want to beat beginners using dervishs... seriously...

lol.. no u don't?

urania · May 01, 2011, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's the problem... In the past , brains mattered more than strengh in GvG or HB , meaning that strong players could win even with the crapest build ....Today , you have to run meta bars if you want to beat beginners using dervishs... seriously...

in the past, there was no HB.

chuckles79 · May 02, 2011, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Meta Builds: a collection of builds from one of the pvx sites that are marked for their common usage, and effectiveness in MOST situations.

I've found the best builds I've used over the years are my own variants on pvx builds. You start with a basic concept, then you adapt it to your playstyle.

Shadowform in JQ, not meta; but you get a low intelligence warrior on the other team then some magic happens LOL

Paragons in PvP, not meta; but get your avg Kurz FA team with 2-3 rangers and suddenly you are the chosen one!

Avatar of Grenth isn't meta (no really, it isn't I checked!) but anyone who's played in the last month can tell you that they aren't pushovers.

Wastrel's Worry and Demise in JQ, not Meta; but nothing like the words "Green Turtle drops a jade slab" to make the match go quicker.

Meta is a great place for noobs and the uncreative to start. Let perma-metas be, while the rest of us max out our B-faction and swim in Z-keys.

pinkeyflower · May 03, 2011, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

Meta Builds: a collection of builds from one of the pvx sites that are marked for their common usage, and effectiveness in MOST situations.

I've found the best builds I've used over the years are my own variants on pvx builds. You start with a basic concept, then you adapt it to your playstyle.

Shadowform in JQ, not meta; but you get a low intelligence warrior on the other team then some magic happens LOL

Paragons in PvP, not meta; but get your avg Kurz FA team with 2-3 rangers and suddenly you are the chosen one!

Avatar of Grenth isn't meta (no really, it isn't I checked!) but anyone who's played in the last month can tell you that they aren't pushovers.

Wastrel's Worry and Demise in JQ, not Meta; but nothing like the words "Green Turtle drops a jade slab" to make the match go quicker.

Meta is a great place for noobs and the uncreative to start. Let perma-metas be, while the rest of us max out our B-faction and swim in Z-keys.

But you're talking about CMs where the objective is to kill NPCs and not players. Not the same as say something like RA or GvG.

bitchbar player · May 03, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkeyflower

But you're talking about CMs where the objective is to kill NPCs and not players. Not the same as say something like RA or GvG.

I think killing NPCs IS the goal in GVG but yeah CM isn't PVP