Curse

Hi I'm Jecht · Jul 10, 2011, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Empathic removal on an axe bar works wonders! It Is also amusing to see people go 'omg wamo noob /leave'.

Killed u man · Jul 10, 2011, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

what happened to the good old plague touch?

Conditions are too easily pooped now. Either it'll get covered a million times, or it'll get reapplied way faster than you have energy to plague touch. (Or that'dd be the only thing you'll have energy for)

Plague touch works with Heabutt, but as an actual condition removal you're better off with antidote or sight beyond sight.

Sankt Hallvard · Jul 10, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28

You guys run so much mumbojumbo I wonder what you are thinking. I ran into this build today and I must say it is pretty good. Now you heard it from me first:

Derviche. Anything goes, but avatar of grenth seems pretty good.
Mesmer. Domination with empathie, backfire, diversion, wastrels this and that. You can take other skills too but not necessary.
Necromancher. foul feast, plagua sendin, faint, insidious parasit, armor of sancity. You can also take an elite if you want.
Monk. Word of healing is good.

How does this setup work? It is pretty easy. The dervish picks a target and uses his scythe on it, it will die sooner or later. Necro must spam ff on monk on recharge otherwise select any physical and put your hexes on it. Mesmer must put empathy on a physical and put all the other hexes on the monk. Only problem is if you run into teams with 2 monks. How 2 handle that? Well you have 2 options. You can either stop attacking them and tell them 2 monks is lame and they will usually resign when the monks don't get to heal(they love to heal and if you do dmg they will love it). The other option if they still don't resign is to press ur skills on all of the enemies and they will eventually run out of energy and you win anyway.

Good luck!

Missing HB · Jul 10, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

The problem is the damage that goes with condition spam from those OP dervs and air eles , which make it impossible to win 99% of time when you got no monk and oppo does have one ...

Easy counter to those eles is ench remove , but it has no use when the fight is lasting less than 30sec.....Not going to argue about ppl who synced with 4 El/Mo invoke earlier....

Shy Guy · Jul 10, 2011, 08:07 PM // 20:07

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You have to call out when you use the key skills like signet of stamina and vengeful just so people know you're in it to win it

Shrimz · Jul 11, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

need advice for derv healer? are they viable anymore?

Idk what else to use to heal besides signet of pious light or imbue health.

meh this is alright.

faithful intervention
armor of sanctity
shield of force
vital boon
mystic regen
imbue health
signent of pious light
echo (e)

Marverick · Jul 11, 2011, 04:25 AM // 04:25

why are so many people running vigorous spirit on monks? makes no sense...

Shrimz · Jul 11, 2011, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

why are so many people running vigorous spirit on monks? makes no sense...

for wars and sins and dervs?

Infectious · Jul 11, 2011, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

why are so many people running vigorous spirit on monks? makes no sense...

Negate degen, ease pressure from empathy on melee

superraptors · Jul 11, 2011, 07:13 AM // 07:13

vigorous has been staple for a couple of years now, its counterproductive in some situations and pure waste of energy.

urania · Jul 11, 2011, 08:39 AM // 08:39

vig negates poison (and other degen) pressure, makes empaty and insidi and ss less of an issue, fuels cop, covers veil (!) or conjures on melees, serves to fake out rupts (like patient does) etc.

if thats a waste of energy to you, then idk what's not.

Marverick · Jul 11, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

hmm I haven't played in like 2 years so I don't know what recent developments are.

but it seems like reapplying vig in a battle isn't worth it because it takes way too long for its effects to become noticeable.

I'll try running it I guess.

Ariena Najea · Jul 11, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

hmm I haven't played in like 2 years so I don't know what recent developments are.

but it seems like reapplying vig in a battle isn't worth it because it takes way too long for its effects to become noticeable.

I'll try running it I guess.

Consider Vigorous Spirit at 14 Healing Prayers - Each packet heals for 19. If your target attacks/casts even 11 times in that 30s (35s), the target is healed for a little more than WoH at the same spec. Not bad for a non-elite that also has the utility karla posted.

I generally use only VS and PS to heal myself (spearing when not casting), and reserve WoH and SoR almost exclusively for teammates.

Jeydra · Jul 12, 2011, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Consider Vigorous Spirit at 14 Healing Prayers - Each packet heals for 19. If your target attacks/casts even 11 times in that 30s (35s), the target is healed for a little more than WoH at the same spec. Not bad for a non-elite that also has the utility karla posted.

I generally use only VS and PS to heal myself (spearing when not casting), and reserve WoH and SoR almost exclusively for teammates.

Consider Healing Breeze @ 14 Healing Prayers. It provides 9 health regen for 18s (+20% enchant mod), for a total health healed of 18 * 18 = 324, which makes it more than twice as effective as Patient Spirit for twice the cost.

I'm not convinced. Vig Spirit does some things good, but I don't like it overall. Its uses:

1. Negates pressure somewhat, but still only somewhat. Does nothing if the target is at full health, and the healing is unreliable (e.g. an Ele is running all the time from a Warrior, wither the healing?).
2. Somewhat negates Empathy and Insidious (SS is rare; if you bring this up why not bring up Price of Failure ...), but then those hexes should be removed, not healed through. That's why double hex removal is there anyway ...
3. Provides something to CoP, but CoP itself is pretty inefficient. If you CoP one skill you're looking at ~75 health healed. Patient Spirit heals a lot more. You remove a hex. OK, but Cure Hex heals a lot more. About the only real hex CoP removes better than Cure is Shame, which can be Veiled against. You removed conditions, but as a rule the only condition really worth removing is Dazed, which can be played around. It's an advantage if you run CoP I suppose.
4. Covers Veil and Conjure - so does Patient Spirit.
5. Serves as something to fake out interrupts - so does Sig Rejuv. Sig Rejuv has some big advantages over Veil as well, most of all being a fairly strong heal you can use while camping shield set.

Surprising one advantage wasn't mentioned for Vig Spirit, it heals you while you charge adrenaline for Bonetti's.

My verdict on Vig Spirit: it's not a terrible skill. Go ahead and run it if you want, I won't however.

R A I Y N E · Jul 12, 2011, 04:06 PM // 16:06

bash vig all you want I'll still have it on my bar while I rack up glads/boxes.. /yawn

Coast · Jul 12, 2011, 06:15 PM // 18:15

run what suits ur playstyle the best imo

F L O W · Jul 12, 2011, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Vig Wins games guys, wtf are you people talking about?

Ghost Dog · Jul 12, 2011, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Vig seems to meet it's oddly required circumstances in RA often, but it's in no way a permanent bar slot, I think I ended up switching it with shielding hands before I quit playing.

urania · Jul 12, 2011, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Consider Healing Breeze @ 14 Healing Prayers. It provides 9 health regen for 18s (+20% enchant mod), for a total health healed of 18 * 18 = 324, which makes it more than twice as effective as Patient Spirit for twice the cost.

I'm not convinced. Vig Spirit does some things good, but I don't like it overall. Its uses:

1. Negates pressure somewhat, but still only somewhat. Does nothing if the target is at full health, and the healing is unreliable (e.g. an Ele is running all the time from a Warrior, wither the healing?).
2. Somewhat negates Empathy and Insidious (SS is rare; if you bring this up why not bring up Price of Failure ...), but then those hexes should be removed, not healed through. That's why double hex removal is there anyway ...
3. Provides something to CoP, but CoP itself is pretty inefficient. If you CoP one skill you're looking at ~75 health healed. Patient Spirit heals a lot more. You remove a hex. OK, but Cure Hex heals a lot more. About the only real hex CoP removes better than Cure is Shame, which can be Veiled against. You removed conditions, but as a rule the only condition really worth removing is Dazed, which can be played around. It's an advantage if you run CoP I suppose.
4. Covers Veil and Conjure - so does Patient Spirit.
5. Serves as something to fake out interrupts - so does Sig Rejuv. Sig Rejuv has some big advantages over Veil as well, most of all being a fairly strong heal you can use while camping shield set.

Surprising one advantage wasn't mentioned for Vig Spirit, it heals you while you charge adrenaline for Bonetti's.

My verdict on Vig Spirit: it's not a terrible skill. Go ahead and run it if you want, I won't however.

breeze and vig are two very different things. if anything, breeze functions more like a preprot than anything else.

and you points have rather weak arguments.

1) on eles it helps covering attuns as well as increases to overall heal combined with aura. if the ele is successfully kiting the warrior, then he's in effect negating a lot more damage vig would heal up anyway.

2) actually, emp was a real must remove on frenzy shock axes only (the irony), while its by far not as harmful on dervs or hammers, and relatively harmful on (mediocre) sins and paras - if they unload properly, a kill can still be made and death avoided. its faint and other variations of it, blurred, PoF etc. that prevent killing, not emp and insidi. its good to have them removed, but they do not have a must-remove priority.

3) cop is bar compression - >immediate< hex AND cond removal combined. somehow weaker after patient nerf, but still useful. cure has to deal with the everlasting problem of hex covering.

4) you're honestly comparing a 30s+ cover to a 2s+ one?

5) not many things beat veil, really. the problem is that its far less strong in an incompetent team than in a competent one. that's one of the reasons i run cop now. sig is cool, but divine spirit is better if its bar compression you're after (pumps deny, provides a huge energy relief, allows for endless fakes while up and a chance to renew all vig spirits and enables (careful) spamming at your hearts desire, allows casting on sets with only a few points of energy (hence you dont need to worry about e denial for those 11s+).

its a good skill to have, but as you said, at the end its mostly about personal preference.

Ariena Najea · Jul 12, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Consider Healing Breeze @ 14 Healing Prayers. It provides 9 health regen for 18s (+20% enchant mod), for a total health healed of 18 * 18 = 324, which makes it more than twice as effective as Patient Spirit for twice the cost.

I'm not convinced. Vig Spirit does some things good, but I don't like it overall. Its uses:

1. Negates pressure somewhat, but still only somewhat. Does nothing if the target is at full health, and the healing is unreliable (e.g. an Ele is running all the time from a Warrior, wither the healing?).
2. Somewhat negates Empathy and Insidious (SS is rare; if you bring this up why not bring up Price of Failure ...), but then those hexes should be removed, not healed through. That's why double hex removal is there anyway ...
3. Provides something to CoP, but CoP itself is pretty inefficient. If you CoP one skill you're looking at ~75 health healed. Patient Spirit heals a lot more. You remove a hex. OK, but Cure Hex heals a lot more. About the only real hex CoP removes better than Cure is Shame, which can be Veiled against. You removed conditions, but as a rule the only condition really worth removing is Dazed, which can be played around. It's an advantage if you run CoP I suppose.
4. Covers Veil and Conjure - so does Patient Spirit.
5. Serves as something to fake out interrupts - so does Sig Rejuv. Sig Rejuv has some big advantages over Veil as well, most of all being a fairly strong heal you can use while camping shield set.

Surprising one advantage wasn't mentioned for Vig Spirit, it heals you while you charge adrenaline for Bonetti's.

My verdict on Vig Spirit: it's not a terrible skill. Go ahead and run it if you want, I won't however.

Healing Breeze is a steeper energy cost, and the 1s casting time is very tedious. Even ignoring the occasional Power Block Mesmer, this is an easy skill to hit with Savage Shot, whereas Vigorous cannot be twitched and as karla said before, helps to fake out interrupts on WoH.

1: You don't have to maintain Vigorous on targets who are taking no pressure damage. Most matches only 2-3 players on my team take any serious pressure, so I tend to use Vigorous as a pre-prot as opposed to a reactive heal. It is useless as you say on targets who spend all match kiting, however, I cannot remember the last time I had such a player on my team while playing Monk. Most RA players nowadays tend to think they are invincible with a Monk on their team, and do not run much.

2: I do not bring dual hex removal. Apart from Veil, Cure Hex is the only other removal I would consider, and I do not like it for one of the same reasons I do not like Healing Breeze; the casting time. Pre-veiling mitigates the danger significantly, as well as watching for interrupts and casting during their downtime. Cure Hex is an easy target for interrupts, and you do not always benefit from the heal effect. Depending on the match up, I will frequently prioritize the removal of disruptive hexes (Shame, Diversion, Faintheartedness) over punitive (Empathy, Backfire, SS) hexes since you can deal with the punitive ones on your own terms.

3: As noted above, I only bring Veil for hex removal. In the current Dervish and Ele based meta, I would never bring CoP.

4: As karla said...

5: I am not sure why you are comparing SoR to Veil. I played around with Divine Spirit for a few weeks in April, and found it awkward to use. ESurge is still a popular build, and I frequently had to dip into my high set to cast Divine Spirit, which the decent ESurgers took advantage of. There is certainly not as much enchantment removal in the meta as there was earlier in the year, but there is also that concern for DS as well. Healing from your shield set is important in today's meta since the midline damage from Invoke Eles goes from annoying to deadly when you change sets.

Here is what I have been running for the past few months:
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My bar is designed to make streaks as long as possible. It is not ideal against bad teams (ex: dual or triple hexers) but adept at dealing with good players on good teams, whom you are likely to come across at least once. I know most people do not bring Guardian anymore, but it remains on my bar to deal with Rangers and Hammer Warriors more than Dervishes. Similarly, I do not know anyone else who runs Dolyak without Bonetti's, but I find that Dolyak's is effective both against knockdowns (so I can be aggressive with Guardian versus good Dev Hammers) and Invoke Eles since the +10 armor takes off approximately 11.5% damage after armor penetration. I maintain that Bonetti's is only the best option against bad players.

As karla says, build your bar around how you play best.