Curse

Ariena Najea · Apr 07, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

What does happen when I see Protector's Defense is something like this: my team's frontliners are trying to bash the other team's midliners dead, while the other team's frontliners are trying to bash my team's midliners dead. My team's midliners attempt to kite, and the obvious direction is backwards. The other team's frontliners cannot follow, because to follow is to run out of Monk healing range, and the Monk cannot move because it ends Protector's Defense. Pressure relieved, etc.

Tell your team you have Prot Defense and call it when it is used. Good players will pay attention and react appropriately.

Quote:

Bonetti's doesn't cost energy. I'm not understanding you. If they run away and keep pressuring is a good reason not to bring Bonetti's, then you could argue that Mo/E is the best Monk combination because if you use a stance they run away and keep pressuring anyway so why not just bring extra energy management.

Bonetti's costs a slot on your bar for a mediocre effect. See here.

Quote:

If you're getting KD'ed once every 5s from Stoning, you can't heal well. If you're getting KD'ed twice every 5s from Echo'ed Stoning, you really cannot heal. Sure, you can kite Stoning, but if you're kiting you're not casting. If your team isn't taking damage in the meantime all the better for you, but if an Assassin unleashes his chain right then you'll probably take deaths. I'd argue that Balanced Stance has its uses.

Dodge for the 1/2 second that is required and go back to casting. If the Ele is determined to sit on you so that you can't dodge, just count the time and plan accordingly. If someone is running towards you and 4s have passed since the last Stoning, Guardian yourself.

Quote:

Pre-protting works until it doesn't work anymore. There're so many situations when prot is unreliable: interrupts, a recharging prot, Backfire on you, enchant removal, two people getting spiked at the same time, etc etc etc.

The only time I have trouble with prots is against CE Necs. The bar I pinged can deal with any other situation, and the former is dealt with by your team not sucking (only way you get a streak regardless).

Quote:

Didn't notice Shield Stance has been changed. No big difference with Disciplined, then, although I still prefer Disciplined.

It still sucks against pressure, and can be removed by many frontliners. I usually run Forceful Blow, or Dev Hammer with Wild Throw.

Quote:

You cancel your attack skill vs. Shield Bash? Good luck to you, to be honest. Again, so many problems here. You don't know if the Monk is carrying Shield Bash and risk getting bashed once. Sometimes you don't have a choice but to attack, e.g. Crushing Blow following Dev Hammer. By canceling your skills, you give the Monk 5 seconds to get up, kite, etc. Quick activating skills are close to impossible to cancel, and if you're in an IAS stance there may not be time to cancel anyway. Of course a good Monk will not use Shield Bash without good reason.

If you can't cancel a 1s skill, you should practice somewhere until you can. Sure you give the Monk a semi-breather (training still does damage), but that slot used for Shield Bash wasn't use for something else, so after 5 seconds you take advantage of that fact. You are likely to get Shield Bashed the first time, but that doesn't mean you automatically lose the match. As for quick activating skills (I sometimes bring Protector's Strike for damage progression) I am careful in their use.

Quote:

How often did you see Mo/A's back in TA? I recall they were only present in Shovespike teams ...

I am not quite sure why you would make this comparison.

RA is not TA - Your team is not planned and on voice chat
The meta has changed significantly since TA was removed

Perhaps you can elaborate?

urania · Apr 07, 2011, 07:50 AM // 07:50

his point was, a mo/a will get caught eventually, especially if you're sitting on a wide-open map without any places to map up and down to, while dark escape will simply get wild blown/striken/thrown, so you're left with a very map reliant escape skill and no armour from tactics.

sure you can kite for a while, but you'll be caught eventually.

and trust me, ra is full of synchs (inc 4 man ty style ones), so he has all the reason to compare it to TA. not too long ago i had the courtesy of kicking out a full Boo+Glad synch (the standard r/mo, hammer w and nec TA setup) out with a fully random team. but i was a mo/w, not a mo/r and most def not a mo/a.

Edit: at ariena, boon prot mo/r wont just drop vs anything else but dervs, its very dependant on what your team has and what the opp team has.

HigherMinion · Apr 07, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

his point was, a mo/a will get caught eventually, especially if you're sitting on a wide-open map without any places to map up and down to, while dark escape will simply get wild blown/striken/thrown, so you're left with a very map reliant escape skill and no armour from tactics.

sure you can kite for a while, but you'll be caught eventually.

and trust me, ra is full of synchs (inc 4 man ty style ones), so he has all the reason to compare it to TA. not too long ago i had the courtesy of kicking out a full Boo+Glad synch (the standard r/mo, hammer w and nec TA setup) out with a fully random team. but i was a mo/w, not a mo/r and most def not a mo/a.

Pretty much this. To add:

I've tried Mo/A and it's definitely not as good as being able to take Bonetti's/Prot Defense (my two stances, dropping guardian and prot spec)

I also enjoy taking Mo/R over /A option for Dshot/natual dash run kite thing. Dshotting as a monk is entertaining. It's all about the res control

1.Mo/W
2.Mo/R
3.Mo/A
4. Mo/D ?

superraptors · Apr 07, 2011, 08:43 AM // 08:43

/w > /a anyday, darkescapes 30 sec recharge is definitely not made to sustain a long battle

kedde · Apr 07, 2011, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I thought it was proven even back in the GWFC that Mo/A did not have staying power in drawn out fights. I don't see why anyone would come to a different conclusion now.
It's always been a question of mobility versus better defence, in some cases mobility can be a better defensive tool but it's hardly different than 5 years ago.

Jeydra · Apr 07, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Tell your team you have Prot Defense and call it when it is used. Good players will pay attention and react appropriately.

Bonetti's costs a slot on your bar for a mediocre effect. See here.

Dodge for the 1/2 second that is required and go back to casting. If the Ele is determined to sit on you so that you can't dodge, just count the time and plan accordingly. If someone is running towards you and 4s have passed since the last Stoning, Guardian yourself.

The only time I have trouble with prots is against CE Necs. The bar I pinged can deal with any other situation, and the former is dealt with by your team not sucking (only way you get a streak regardless).

It still sucks against pressure, and can be removed by many frontliners. I usually run Forceful Blow, or Dev Hammer with Wild Throw.

If you can't cancel a 1s skill, you should practice somewhere until you can. Sure you give the Monk a semi-breather (training still does damage), but that slot used for Shield Bash wasn't use for something else, so after 5 seconds you take advantage of that fact. You are likely to get Shield Bashed the first time, but that doesn't mean you automatically lose the match. As for quick activating skills (I sometimes bring Protector's Strike for damage progression) I am careful in their use.

I am not quite sure why you would make this comparison.

RA is not TA - Your team is not planned and on voice chat
The meta has changed significantly since TA was removed

Perhaps you can elaborate?

Protector's Defense - so what? If good frontliners cannot run past a certain point, they can't deal damage once the other team retreats behind that point. This alleviates pressure. Once I kite behind your cast range, your frontliner cannot follow me. Good frontliner or bad frontliner, they cannot follow me.

You can claim Bonetti's effect is mediocre, I disagree.

It's just as easy to say dodge Stoning as it is to say run up to the target you want KD'ed before using Stoning. And you can't dodge Gale. Or Shock.

Regarding Corrupt Enchant - you're exaggerating. Be fair. There are more anti-enchants than Corrupt in RA, including but not limited to Drain Enchantment, Rip Enchantment and Strip Enchantment. All of them pwn Guardian, but they do not pwn stances.

Disciplined Stance is not the best against pressure, but it doesn't suck either. You can use it to mimic Guardian on yourself, and you can activate it while KD'ed, it's far more difficult to remove, etc.

You're also exaggerating to say you can easily cancel attack skills. That would 1) require you to play with your inventory open, 2) require you to have your mouse over your weapon swap, 3) require you to have leet reflexes such that you can cancel your attack skill AFTER you see Shield Bash, which is (should be) activated by the Monk AFTER he sees you use your attack skill. I don't believe you can do that all the time. You're pretty much left with attempting to fake out Shield Bash. Possible, but even if nothing else Shield Bash buys a full 5 seconds of time when the Monk is relatively safe.

RA is not TA, but it's close enough. And I'm sure the old TA standard still works, although it might be better at this point to switch out the Warrior for a Derv. Mo/A is more mobile than Mo/W, but less resilient. I'd definitely run Mo/A in split GvG builds, AB or byob, but not in RA.

Still, run whatever you want. It's not mine to worry about.

Ariena Najea · Apr 07, 2011, 10:14 PM // 22:14

urania, I haven't run into a good synch team in almost a year, so either there aren't too many around or they are not as prevalent during American times when I usually RA.

As far as staying power, I cannot recall a meta other than the post Seeping Wound buff where matches were decided so quickly. The only time I reliably run out of energy is when I get a team that cannot pressure (Kindle Rangers, Defy Warriors, otherwise bad players) which I don't expect to get a streak with anyways. Once Dervishes are toned down some more, I expect matches to take longer and will alter what I run accordingly.

urania · Apr 07, 2011, 10:45 PM // 22:45

consider yourself lucky.
moreover, its not so much about the synch being good as it is about your team sucking ass.

superraptors · Apr 10, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

lol yeh shit teams have always been an issue since district merge

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 10, 2011, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by S4br3t00th

If I see anything casting healing breeze I just /facepalm and stop healing it, unless it actually does something useful... which ofc never happens as it is often paired with almighty skills like flare or cleave...

mind blast
immolate
meteor
Rodgort's Invocation
Healing Breeze
Fire Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Res Sig

A Ritualist, ranger, dervish and I got 15 wins fairly easily with this. Just saying....
We had no monk and healing breeze took a lot of pressure off of our ritualist who mostly spammed vengeful weapon and other such skills.

9tails · Apr 10, 2011, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

mind blast
immolate
meteor
Rodgort's Invocation
Healing Breeze
Fire Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Res Sig

A Ritualist, ranger, dervish and I got 15 wins fairly easily with this. Just saying....
We had no monk and healing breeze took a lot of pressure off of our ritualist who mostly spammed vengeful weapon and other such skills.

Doesn't really mean Healing Breeze is good. I think it more means that healing, any healing, is good. But there are better options. Also, your opponents over that 15 streak were terrible at pressure if your team stayed up via Healing Breeze and Vengeful Weapon.

*lemming* · Apr 10, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

8 spec Healing Breeze is more energy-efficient than Patient Spirit. The only problem is that monks can't afford to keep it up, but Mind Blast eles get around that.

kedde · Apr 10, 2011, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Healing breeze is a good skill, just extremely niche. Its usage limits itself to fire and forget which happens a lot in skirmish situations.

Ariena Najea · Apr 10, 2011, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

8 spec Healing Breeze is more energy-efficient than Patient Spirit. The only problem is that monks can't afford to keep it up, but Mind Blast eles get around that.

Math: Healing Breeze at 8 spec heals for 252 health if cast with an enchanting weapon (210 without). It isn't particularly vulnerable to enchantment stripping since a MB Ele can re-apply it, and it also makes for a decent cover.

Bearmeat · Apr 11, 2011, 06:34 AM // 06:34

We ended up stalemating to a monk and 3 eles, but this team made for some of the funniest games I have played in a while. The best part was that every single team asked us to resign.

Moderator Edit: Picture removed - you need to censor the names of other players

urania · Apr 11, 2011, 07:01 AM // 07:01

wtb report for griefing.

Sankt Hallvard · Apr 11, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearmeat

We ended up stalemating to a monk and 3 eles, but this team made for some of the funniest games I have played in a while. The best part was that every single team asked us to resign.

OMG! How dare they? I'm glad you didn't succumb to their manipulative ways! Must... grief... it out!

But champ, you're not a true champ until you can do this:

Moderator Edit: Picture removed - you need to censor the names of other players
(First drop in morale is a teammember ragequitting before time.)

The Only Warrior · Apr 11, 2011, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Presenting my RaO Scythe-lamer

Aura of Thorns is swappable with Conviction or Grenths Fingers.
Radiant Scythe is swappable for Scavenger Strike (BM) but slightly more conditional.
I use a zealous scythe.

Edit, lowering BM to 11 and taking 5 earth prayers might be better.

0 Energy in 5 sec, that build is fail. why do you have charm+Comfort?

Killed u man · Apr 11, 2011, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I think the better question is, why run a RaO bar, when you can run bar which is almost identical, but better in every way:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Onslaught

Whoops.

deluxe · Apr 11, 2011, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Pets are ossum and fun!