Curse

Cool Name · Mar 18, 2011, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Yes, this is the RA problem. Look through past threads here (there are enough that I don't think I need to point specific ones out, one was posted by me though) which discuss this.

CrimpyRex · Mar 18, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Good to know that I'm not the only one. Funny thing though is that the opposing team always seems to be more balanced then I am.

EDIT: Are the builds on pvxwiki still recent? Because that's the only place I can find builds on for PvP.

AndrewSX · Mar 18, 2011, 11:44 PM // 23:44

This is first time i post here, cause i'm mostly a PvE player, but now that most titles are done, for spend some time i've started to do some RA match. The idea was to learn using a very noob-proof build like Invoke, but after some rounds i've tried to change things to fit better my playstile...i'd like to have some feedback/advice, cause i'm quite noob about PvP.

Elementalist/Dervish
Air Magic 12+1+2
E Storage 12+1
Earth Prayers 3

Mind Shock[E]
Lightning Bolt
Shell Shock
Blinding Flash
Shield of force
Aura of Restoration
Air Attunement
Res Sig.

Not really creative(someone probably have already posted a build very similar i guess..), but i like the multiple use of Mind shock(damage, KD, rupt) and the little challenge to manage the exaustion. Shield of force just is self defence, like Shield bash, but i'm too lazy to switch weapons only to use that skill, so replaced it(could Armor of sanctity be an option?).

The problem i've seen so far is the usual lack of monk, cause apart Shield and AoR there's not any kind of self heal/defence; just tought that in RA as ele is expected that i play to almost full damage.

Also, i'm not fully satisfied by Bolt and Shell Shock. The first is ok for kiting things, but being a proiectile can be dodged(that is why people kite!). And cracked armor seems pointless with 25% base penetration.

Anyways, any kind of critique/advice about it for improvements is welcome.

Seraphic Divinity · Mar 19, 2011, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I gave it a go earlier, with marginal success. You're right, the only real problem was surviving. I should really be auto-attacking on defensive set until Bonetti's charges before swapping to 4040 prot.

The bar, as far as I can remember, was:
Prot 12+1+1; heal 6; Divine 10+1; Tactics 4.
1.Restore Conditions
2.Gift of Health
3.Reversal of Fortune
4.Signet of Devotion
5.Deny Hexes
6.Contemplation of Purity
7.Guardian
8.Bonetti's

Thoughts on improving this bar?

I would definitely suggest moving tactics up to 8 (supposing you're monking with q7/8 shields) because if you're going to be relying on RC as an elite you'll want as much armor as possible, so with disciples (+15), shield (+16), vs (+10), you'll have 101 armor and should have 600ish health.

It won't be hard to move around the attributes. Lower Protection to 9+1+1 (that's the minimum amount to keep guardian at 6) and it really won't affect RC because with 2+ conditions RC is almost guaranteed to save your team-mates.

So by lowering prot a couple points you'll be able to hit 7/8 with tactics and up healing. I would also highly suggest shielding hands if you're running as prot because in the current meta SH shuts down a derv per target; and with your al at 101 it can shut down anything training you until you can get adren for bonettis.

I love RoF but I think it could be replaced by something more self-serving on this bar. RC should be quick enough to maintain everyone well and spikes shouldn't be strong and quick, so I would take out RoF for some sort of self-heal. None good come to mind, but with the lowered prot you can up heal.

deluxe · Mar 19, 2011, 07:34 AM // 07:34

RC is just too weak for a RA monk, it's great against condition spam.
But as soon as you face something else than conditions, you have a hell of a time pushing up the red bars.
RC, Patient, Shielding, Guardian, Vig Spirit, CoP, Veil, Bonetti was what i ran,
could make it to 6 wins but it was exceptionally hard.

Jeydra · Mar 19, 2011, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I gave it a go earlier, with marginal success. You're right, the only real problem was surviving. I should really be auto-attacking on defensive set until Bonetti's charges before swapping to 4040 prot.

The bar, as far as I can remember, was:
Prot 12+1+1; heal 6; Divine 10+1; Tactics 4.
1.Restore Conditions
2.Gift of Health
3.Reversal of Fortune
4.Signet of Devotion
5.Deny Hexes
6.Contemplation of Purity
7.Guardian
8.Bonetti's

Thoughts on improving this bar?

If you're operating without WoH or Healing Burst you need Patient Spirit, or you won't really be able to heal yourself. Not much of a choice there, there's simply a huge lack of good Monk self-heals without committing the elite slot. Contemplation of Purity does no good with only Guardian to CoP off, and a mere 4 Tactics means you'll probably get stomped.

If you insist on running RC in RA, I'd start with:

10 + 1 Prot, 8 Tactics, 11 + 2 Healing Prayers, rest into Divine
(attribute spread might be very improvable)

Restore Condition [E]
Mending Touch
Patient Spirit
Shielding Hands
Guardian
Cure Hex
Holy Veil
Disciplined Stance

@AndrewSX - that isn't almost full damage, in fact it's a defensive bar. Because you have Shield of Force, Aura of Restoration and Blinding Flash, the way to play that would be to defend your team and then spike with your allies (e.g. if an Axe Warrior uses Eviscerate, you support him with Mind Shock and Cracked Armour).

I don't think Mind Shock is that good an elite to use, because it's primarily spiky in nature, and much of RA is pressure. If you're using it for the KD, Gale achieves the same thing without taking up the elite slot.

With that bar, only thing I'd suggest would be Lightning Orb over Lightning Bolt so you have slightly more damage at your disposal. Aura of Restoration might be disposable as well if you're brave enough.

CrimpyRex · Mar 20, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

I'm rather new to RA, and PvP in general. What build(s) are best picked for newcomers? I've tried different classes myself (Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Monk) and out of those I thought Necro and Ele were the easiest to play.

Seraphic Divinity · Mar 20, 2011, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimpyRex

I'm rather new to RA, and PvP in general. What build(s) are best picked for newcomers? I've tried different classes myself (Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Monk) and out of those I thought Necro and Ele were the easiest to play.

It all depends at what you're most comfortable playing. Some classes have a higher learning curve than others, but there are advanced techniques and mind-games that can be employed in every profession.

If you are just starting out and want to get a better feel at RA then you can run an invoke ele or a Melandru's resilience necro. Both of these are relatively easy to play, easy to learn, and helpful to the team in a semi-passive/defensive way.

CrimpyRex · Mar 20, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Melandru's Resilience Necro looks interesting. But I wouldn't have a clue about it's setup. PvXwiki doesn't have it aswell..

*lemming* · Mar 20, 2011, 08:03 PM // 20:03

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/R_Melandru%27s_Blood_Necro

AndrewSX · Mar 21, 2011, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Ty Jeydra for feedback/suggestions.
Maybe i'll try something more used next times, as said before i think Invoke will be my first choiche for starting.

HigherMinion · Mar 21, 2011, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/R_Melandru%27s_Blood_Necro

I really dislike monk and nec bars with Mel's.

1. You FF or Draw Daze and you're screwed unless you manage to block long enough to Plague Send, which you shouldn't have because you're camping conditions.

2.Not being able to absorb conditions and beam them to the enemy for extra pressure is poor. Equally, not having an offensive elite on a necro is a bad idea.

3. Wild Throw, Whirling Axe, Wild Strike, etc. It's just not reliable.

urania · Mar 21, 2011, 10:52 AM // 10:52

I love mel resilience monks. for stance removals there's always an eda to synch with and sometimes a r/mo to deal with nasty hexes.
n/r is a waste of slot, mo/r on the other hand frees it up and lets you run a fully offensive team. and offense is the best defense, after all.

basicaly, if your team is able to give you that little bit of support you need vs build wars opponents, you're set for 25.

Wannagotoheaven · Mar 21, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I think something has got to be done about AoG in RA, it's seriously ruining everyone's experiences. Every team has one, and if you don't you're at a disadvantage.
The amount of pressure+self healing is honestly retarded

HigherMinion · Mar 21, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wannagotoheaven

I think something has got to be done about AoG in RA, it's seriously ruining everyone's experiences. Every team has one, and if you don't you're at a disadvantage.
The amount of pressure+self healing is honestly retarded

Not really, it's the same as any other. It can't knockdown, it can't prevent skills unless you have Lyssa's Assault. It also can't blind like EDA. It's just a self-heal and blocks can prevent it. FF and Draw also kill it.

Pensive Guardian is also quite entertaining vs all the derps in RA. Don't cry!

9tails · Mar 21, 2011, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I think that the AoG derv in RA is just another example of the way that well-rounded pressure builds do really well in RA. It doesn't do anything especially well, but it self-heals well, applies good pressure with spammed conditions and attacks, and synergizes well with almost any build the randoms in RA will bring. Compared to the dreck that gets run out in RA, the simple (and simple-to-play) solidity of the AoG derv is going to show up well.

Fate Crusher · Mar 22, 2011, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9tails

I think that the AoG derv in RA is just another example of the way that well-rounded pressure builds do really well in RA. It doesn't do anything especially well, but it self-heals well, applies good pressure with spammed conditions and attacks, and synergizes well with almost any build the randoms in RA will bring. Compared to the dreck that gets run out in RA, the simple (and simple-to-play) solidity of the AoG derv is going to show up well.

Someone didn't see the screenshot of 25 easy wins with 3 AoG Dervs.

image removed - screenshots are not allowed to have names without permission

9tails · Mar 22, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Someone didn't see the screenshot of 25 easy wins with 3 AoG Dervs.

I don't think I said anything that would suggest that AoG was anything but good in RA.

Fate Crusher · Mar 22, 2011, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9tails

I don't think I said anything that would suggest that AoG was anything but good in RA.

You mentioned well-rounded. You mentioned how that it has synergy for pressure 4v4 due to the fact that it doesn't do anything particularly well, but that it does a lot of stuff.

For a team with 3 AoG to gimmick 25 wins (easily, might I add) through RA proves that they're actually too well-rounded, to the sacrifice that anyone who understands the build can create insurmountable pressure/damage compared to a warrior, with much much less brain power.
I'd get into more detail to prove my point but I think this goes without saying.

Don't get me wrong, what they've done to the Dervish has been absolutely brilliant and I welcome these changes with open arms. However, Anet need to realise a thing or two about priorities. They realised Team Arenas was a broken 4v4 format and that 4v4 in itself can be very fragile and broken. They did not address the fact that Random Arenas very much has the potential, and most commonly devolves into, broken games.

As monk in RA, I haven't changed my build in about 2 years.
WoH, Patient, Guardian, Draw, Vigorous Spirit, Veil, Dolyaks and Bonnetti's. Despite most elitest monks thinking they don't need guardian (this was pre-Derv update, mind) I don't take the chance of fighting a team who knows i don't have it and ignore me completely. Despite Veil being my only hex removal, i'm smart enough to use it properly, tabbing through and watching hexes/hex visual/audio, even when we went through the rediculous hex meta phase with VoR and every hex under the sun, as long as the hexes that would pressure you the most have been removed you're able to apply your own pressure on them.
But with these new Dervish, I'm tempted to completely change my build because they've become very popular and the fact that they can swap targets quicker then a warrior, it makes my guardian useless again.

Tell you what though, it's a lot more fun than the hex meta

9tails · Mar 22, 2011, 05:39 AM // 05:39

I didn't mean to denigrate the build by saying that it didn't do anything outstandingly well. I don't think it does. It's resilient, but not that much. It does good pressure damage but nothing special. What makes it special is how well it does all of these things at the same time. Melee pressure AND condition spam AND toughness is a pretty killer combination. And, again, it's simple to use well, so it's inherently going to look good in RA, compared to all the trash that gets run there. You'll randomly get a team with two AoG dervs and a monk and you'll just stomp people.

EDIT: And, Goddess yes, it's better than the hex meta. @_@