Curse

Corporeal Ghost · May 25, 2010, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I've found so far that just hiding energy and relying on WoH to be overpowered will get you through most matches in RA. Multiple ESurges really aren't THAT much more dangerous than one unless they're very well-coordinated. The really dangerous matches that involve ESurge also have either a decent physical or full-blown hexes.

If you want to combat ESurge specifically, I'd stay with WoH. You need the energy efficiency more than you need to remove Wrack. Veil is a good tool, but if that's insufficient, you can run inspiration interrupts, Purge Signet, or Hexbreaker. I've also found Spirit Bond to be pretty effective, but if you're already having energy issues (rather than taking too much damage issues), I wouldn't recommend it. Reversal of Fortune is also quite good against them, but if you're running WoH as I recommended earlier, it's not really worth it.

Note that this transition is going to be much harder for you if you were leaning hard on stances before the update.

Ariena Najea · May 25, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

I've found so far that just hiding energy and relying on WoH to be overpowered will get you through most matches in RA. Multiple ESurges really aren't THAT much more dangerous than one unless they're very well-coordinated. The really dangerous matches that involve ESurge also have either a decent physical or full-blown hexes.

If you want to combat ESurge specifically, I'd stay with WoH. You need the energy efficiency more than you need to remove Wrack. Veil is a good tool, but if that's insufficient, you can run inspiration interrupts, Purge Signet, or Hexbreaker. I've also found Spirit Bond to be pretty effective, but if you're already having energy issues (rather than taking too much damage issues), I wouldn't recommend it. Reversal of Fortune is also quite good against them, but if you're running WoH as I recommended earlier, it's not really worth it.

Note that this transition is going to be much harder for you if you were leaning hard on stances before the update.

Agree here, I was running PnH after the update but WoH is working much better. For secondary, I've been having good success keeping Bonetti's since there are still enough bad physicals to give you lots of free energy apart from the blocking. Dropped my second stance for Divine Spirit, which works wonders for letting me cast in my shield set.

bhavv · May 28, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I found out how to overcome the silly new mesmer builds as a healer.

Delete your PVP monkie and roll an E/Mo Prism healer

:

12+1+1 ES, 12 Healing Prayers

Patient Spirit
D Kiss
Jameis Gaze or Heal Other
Vig Spirit
Haling Breeze
Glyph of Restoration
Ether Prism
Aura of Restoration

Works absolutely fabulous despite having no hex or condi removals, in quite a lot of rounds that I faced enemy Mind Wrack mesmers, I still didnt even need to use Prism once (think they reduced my energy from 80 down to about 50, and that was it, with the damage easily covered with Energy Storage self heals + Breeze). It also outheals Backfire + VoR. I prefer to save it for anti spike rather than spam it needlessly.

I didnt reach 25 wins, but got 22 yesterday, and 19 today, but thats because I were completely rubbish at keeping the glyph up to heal myself against heavy pressure.

(You dont actually need to delete your PVP monk ofc, but just give Prism healing a try and see it it works, you need to remember to keep the glyph cast).

I just got through 25 wins on my Echo mesmer build, tearing through all the lame-o E surge mesmers was awesome:

E Surge really isnt all that good, I've pretty much rolled all over E Surge mesmers on both my Prism Elly and Mesmer. There are so many better mesmer bars that you can play like this one, plus its epic fun.

You can do a triple thievery on monks (Echo > Arcane Thievery > Larency), or Echo Sig of Humility (multiple mesmers), Diversion, Blackout (duo monks, perma blackout one), or even Empathy if facing lots of melee / ranged.

RhanoctJocosa · May 29, 2010, 05:26 AM // 05:26

^ not that much of an accomplishment seeing as you are in sleepy's sync team

bhavv · May 29, 2010, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

^ not that much of an accomplishment seeing as you are in sleepy's sync team

Oh, I didnt actually sync though, just entered and played, and were probably an odd wheel in the group.

I've been getting at least 15 wins a day since the mesmer buffs, 25 on my PVP mesmer with ineptitude, 22 and 19 as Prism elly, and then 25 with the echo PVE mesmer (I only have Echo, Lyssas Aura, E Surge and VoR on this toon).

When playing Prism elly, I were beaten by too much melee power, but never by an E Surge Mesmer. I could usually outheal most enemy monks.

uzumaki · May 30, 2010, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I found out how to overcome the silly new mesmer builds as a healer.

Delete your PVP monkie and roll an E/Mo Prism healer

:

12+1+1 ES, 12 Healing Prayers

Patient Spirit
D Kiss
Jameis Gaze or Heal Other
Vig Spirit
Haling Breeze
Glyph of Restoration
Ether Prism
Aura of Restoration

Works absolutely fabulous despite having no hex or condi removals, in quite a lot of rounds that I faced enemy Mind Wrack mesmers, I still didnt even need to use Prism once (think they reduced my energy from 80 down to about 50, and that was it, with the damage easily covered with Energy Storage self heals + Breeze). It also outheals Backfire + VoR. I prefer to save it for anti spike rather than spam it needlessly.

I didnt reach 25 wins, but got 22 yesterday, and 19 today, but thats because I were completely rubbish at keeping the glyph up to heal myself against heavy pressure.

(You dont actually need to delete your PVP monk ofc, but just give Prism healing a try and see it it works, you need to remember to keep the glyph cast).

I just got through 25 wins on my Echo mesmer build, tearing through all the lame-o E surge mesmers was awesome:

E Surge really isnt all that good, I've pretty much rolled all over E Surge mesmers on both my Prism Elly and Mesmer. There are so many better mesmer bars that you can play like this one, plus its epic fun.

You can do a triple thievery on monks (Echo > Arcane Thievery > Larency), or Echo Sig of Humility (multiple mesmers), Diversion, Blackout (duo monks, perma blackout one), or even Empathy if facing lots of melee / ranged.

It's a crime that you are getting decent streaks with those builds but you should know just because you ARE doesn't mean those builds are good. The builds are horrible believe me when i tell you. The Mesmer bar is one of the worst i've seen, no rupts/ench removal and no defense at all and echo b/o is rediculous, it renders you and another players completely uselss making it a 3v3.. pointless. Healer bar is a joke, just red barring and again no defense at all with too many long cast spells. Any decent warrior, ranger or mes would render those bars useless but it's just as well that decent players in ra are as rare as... decent players in ra... yeah. Luckily your team carried you.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 02, 2010, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I've been running this Defy Hammer Quick Attacker in response to all the melee hatred lately.

Use Enraged Charge to insta-Defy yourself,
proceed to spam Prot Strike/Staggering Blow for fast damages,
use Auspicious Blow to maintain your energy,
Finish them off with Fierce Blow.

Use vampiric hammer for more damages.

I decided not to use frenzy to maximize my survival, but you all can include it at your own discretion. It's quite fun, and it's something new. Spam Prot Stike, especially on kiting targets while maintaining Rush for nasty damage.

Mad Lord of Milk · Jun 03, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Necro

12+1+1 Blood
12+1 Soul

Barbed Signet
Life Siphon
Blood of Aggressor
Oppressive Gaze
Vamp Gaze
Strip Enchant
Cultist's Fervor
Resurrection SIgnet

replace vamp gaze w/ cover enchant if want, spam everything

Corporeal Ghost · Jun 04, 2010, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzumaki

It's a crime that you are getting decent streaks with those builds

Players that are capable of influencing a match in RA are generally not limited by build. I'm sure you can look up loads of screenshots full of people dominating RA with the worst bars around, some of them almost full of empty slots. Conversely, those who are limited by build are frequently not capable of pushing a match one way or the other anyway.

Basically, it's RA, and those that are going to win are probably going to win with whatever they want to run. Those that need stronger players to carry them are going to occasionally get carried, regardless of what they're running. There is some delta here, but it's probably not as large as most people like to think.

That said, the Ele bar is just asking to get destroyed by a decent warrior. Once you lose Breeze, he's going to walk all over you and/or your team, as it's your only real "prot". Prism isn't really going to save you from people who routinely need to kill actual monk bars through two or three stances with better uptime ratios AND better effects.

The mesmer bar is arguably pretty effective in a lot of matches simply due to the versatility offered by Echo and the fact that a lot of those skills are--or at least can be--absolutely backbreaking in 4v4 matches, particularly those that aren't guaranteed some sort of counter. Echo allows you to overload on skills that are often bad, but sometimes crushingly good because it amplifies the good half of your bar in any given matchup. The real problem with that particular bar is the Arcane Randomness package, which is often bad even in situations where it CAN be good--for example, disabling a Monk's Draw Conditions three times in a row when your team is a bunch of Mindblasts.

Sirius, that bar is pretty similar to the Forceful Blow someone brought up recently, except you removed a significant portion of the DPS, which was the bar's greatest strength.

urania · Jun 04, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Players that are capable of influencing a match in RA are generally not limited by build. I'm sure you can look up loads of screenshots full of people dominating RA with the worst bars around, some of them almost full of empty slots. Conversely, those who are limited by build are frequently not capable of pushing a match one way or the other anyway.

Basically, it's RA, and those that are going to win are probably going to win with whatever they want to run. Those that need stronger players to carry them are going to occasionally get carried, regardless of what they're running. There is some delta here, but it's probably not as large as most people like to think.

That said, the Ele bar is just asking to get destroyed by a decent warrior. Once you lose Breeze, he's going to walk all over you and/or your team, as it's your only real "prot". Prism isn't really going to save you from people who routinely need to kill actual monk bars through two or three stances with better uptime ratios AND better effects.

The mesmer bar is arguably pretty effective in a lot of matches simply due to the versatility offered by Echo and the fact that a lot of those skills are--or at least can be--absolutely backbreaking in 4v4 matches, particularly those that aren't guaranteed some sort of counter. Echo allows you to overload on skills that are often bad, but sometimes crushingly good because it amplifies the good half of your bar in any given matchup. The real problem with that particular bar is the Arcane Randomness package, which is often bad even in situations where it CAN be good--for example, disabling a Monk's Draw Conditions three times in a row when your team is a bunch of Mindblasts.

Sirius, that bar is pretty similar to the Forceful Blow someone brought up recently, except you removed a significant portion of the DPS, which was the bar's greatest strength.

"dominating" with lesser bars is called L.U.C.K.
take a guess why.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 04, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Just a quick question for you high ranked glads:

Disciples or Survivors on a monk?

I usually run disciple's insignia on all 5 pieces but with the edenial buff I think I'd be better off stacking more health against the mesmer's armor ignoring damage right?

Ariena Najea · Jun 04, 2010, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Just a quick question for you high ranked glads:

Disciples or Survivors on a monk?

I usually run disciple's insignia on all 5 pieces but with the edenial buff I think I'd be better off stacking more health against the mesmer's armor ignoring damage right?

Disciples is most effective in general, while Survivors is better versus hexers usually. I prefer Disciples since it helps you keep alive through physical spikes, while hexers usually just pressure over time (VoR, Backfire, Curses, etc) which I find easier to deal with, particularly if you are facing a team with two competent frontliners.

Corporeal Ghost · Jun 04, 2010, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Disciples or Survivors on a monk?

There's a pretty strong argument to be made for +10 while Enchanted if you find you're not conditioned enough.

Armor is pretty much always superior to health in any place where spikes are not possible. If you were 100% certain you would face only armor-ignoring damage and degen, a health bonus would give you an extra five or ten seconds of casting from a zeroed high set. But you aren't, and armor will prevent damage, even if you aren't casting. Health is just a buffer. Having more of it only keeps you from dying if you're for some reason unable to be redbarred back up. Having more armor makes you take less damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

"dominating" with lesser bars is called L.U.C.K.
take a guess why.

Says she who runs Melandru's Resilience? I know I used to push into TA all the time with all kinds of garbage bars. The frequency certainly wasn't as high as it would have been if I was running something real, but the fact remains that a solid player dicking around with a joke build is still more effective than probably a solid 80% of RA with a real build.

urania · Jun 05, 2010, 08:47 AM // 08:47

obviously I need a certain amount of luck as mel resilience too - luck to face as few teams without condition and/or hex pressure as possible and to face few or possibly no teams with stance removal as well as no dual mo teams, but even more importantly, to find a good team that can kill fast enough in situations such as the above.
oh and to avoid the synchs since they always bring wild throw on their hammer.
but in most other cases, mel resi monks shine.

Echo is a fine elite, but its wasted when used to multiply arcane thievery alone. It can adapt according to what needs to be shutdown most, and that's its greatest advantage, so a fairly diverse bar is needed for BO to shine, usually with 1 rupt, bo, empathy, enchantment removal and so on and use it accordingly to what will be best in a given situation.

Cantos · Jun 05, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Just a quick question for you high ranked glads:

Disciples or Survivors on a monk?

I usually run disciple's insignia on all 5 pieces but with the edenial buff I think I'd be better off stacking more health against the mesmer's armor ignoring damage right?

Blessed if you have Vigorous Spirit, Disciple's if you dont, Survivor never.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 05, 2010, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Thanks everyone for your advice, although I'll have to buy a new set of armor as I change my builds regularly.

Also I find any decent hammer warrior, regardless of syncs packing wild throw.

Del · Jun 06, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

12+1+1 axe
8+1 tactics
10+1 strength

Dismember
Body blow
Agonizing/disrupting chop
bull's strike
Auspicious parry
Frenzy
Rush
Res sig

GANGSTA.

Grumpy Bear · Jun 06, 2010, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantos

Blessed if you have Vigorous Spirit, Disciple's if you dont, Survivor never.

And what happens when those enchants get stripped and you don't have chance to re-apply for whatever reason? You're left with no armour bonus.

Always, always, always use full disciples armour. Yes with the new mesmer buffs there is armour ignoring damage around but look at whatelse your opposing team is likely to be composed of. Warrior, sin, derv, ele, nec or ranger, these all inflict conditions. Even if its just burning off Immolate or poison from a ranger, you get an instant 15+ armour.

Also, if you feel the need, you can switch to your HP set [+30hp on shield and +30hp on spear/sword/axe] occasionally that extra 30hp can come in handy over a def mod.

Cantos · Jun 06, 2010, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Just recast Vigorous, not that big of a deal.

Bobby2 · Jun 06, 2010, 02:50 AM // 02:50

12+1 Axe
12+1+1 Strength
2 Air
2 Tactics

Bull's
Dismember
BBlow
Shove
Frenzy
Rush
Shock
Rez

9s lock on axe wut