Curse

drunknzelda · Apr 24, 2010, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

multiple ench removal (ce/rip, drain on dom mes are common ones) will shut hc down very quickly, not to mention wars will have a field day training you with rupts and kds.

Gotten over 100 glad with it so far, I get to 25 wins fairly often if my team isn't retarded.
As for enchant strip, I cover HC with vigorous instantly so they strip a 2 energy enchant, oh noes! ^^
I usually take Return, then position myself somewhere up high or in hiding, so any melee is rendered quite useless. I can easily outheal them if they decide to train something else, vigorous on the target, then patient followed by dwaynas kiss is quite powerful. The worst opponents are hammers (after their full chain, use patient then cop to heal to max) or diversion, but I usually keep their mesmer pinged so I can look what he's doing. As for rupts, all spells except for dwaynas are 1/4 sec so I laugh at rangers and mesmers.

Adriaanz#Shiro · Apr 24, 2010, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunknzelda

Gotten over 100 glad with it so far, I get to 25 wins fairly often if my team isn't retarded.
As for enchant strip, I cover HC with vigorous instantly so they strip a 2 energy enchant, oh noes! ^^
I usually take Return, then position myself somewhere up high or in hiding, so any melee is rendered quite useless. I can easily outheal them if they decide to train something else, vigorous on the target, then patient followed by dwaynas kiss is quite powerful. The worst opponents are hammers (after their full chain, use patient then cop to heal to max) or diversion, but I usually keep their mesmer pinged so I can look what he's doing. As for rupts, all spells except for dwaynas are 1/4 sec so I laugh at rangers and mesmers.

Wouldn't you run Mo/W with Balanced Stance then?

urania · Apr 24, 2010, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunknzelda

Gotten over 100 glad with it so far, I get to 25 wins fairly often if my team isn't retarded.
As for enchant strip, I cover HC with vigorous instantly so they strip a 2 energy enchant, oh noes! ^^
I usually take Return, then position myself somewhere up high or in hiding, so any melee is rendered quite useless. I can easily outheal them if they decide to train something else, vigorous on the target, then patient followed by dwaynas kiss is quite powerful. The worst opponents are hammers (after their full chain, use patient then cop to heal to max) or diversion, but I usually keep their mesmer pinged so I can look what he's doing. As for rupts, all spells except for dwaynas are 1/4 sec so I laugh at rangers and mesmers.

one pblock on dwaynas and you're fked. well, or d shot. doesnt take a genious to notice the pattern in casting it.

Fate Crusher · Apr 25, 2010, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

and to all the people saying how draw, guardian etc is a must - taking either or both of those means you'll be sacrificing either your defense or your hex removal or an anti pressure skill or part of your e management and neither of that is worth kicking in the long run. You either get a good team that will foremostly need hex removal and red barring or you keep on leaving till you get one.
Moreover, draw is a double edged sword...for obvious reasons. If you think its there to draw poison with then you really have no clue to start with.

Pedantic much? Poison was the simplest example. I'm not going to explain every detail what draw is for, give tactical advise, save spikes by drawing DW, removing cripple before Trampling Ox or removing bleeding before gash, and how to use it when a Necro with FF is also on your team, possibly even explain the disadvantage of drawing blind if you're training for bonetti's 24/7 in a ballanced match.

concerns for e-management. If you're not spamming guardian or draw, you shouldn't need more e-management than bonetti's. As said before, Vigorous Spirit is very much underestimated in RA. Veil costs nothing but rupts, and spotless removes up to 4 hexes. (EDIT: I mean 3, omg i'm so sorry for the slip of my finger. I'll leave it here so people can understand why i'm being berated)

Ballanced stance = kiting is your e-management
Dolyak signet = free anti-kd, but prots required.

Sankt Hallvard · Apr 25, 2010, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Veil costs nothing but rupts, and spotless removes up to 4 hexes.

Spotless removes 4 hexes? Explain.

FlexBuffchest45 · Apr 25, 2010, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunknzelda
Gotten over 100 glad with it so far, I get to 25 wins fairly often if my team isn't retarded.
As for enchant strip, I cover HC with vigorous instantly so they strip a 2 energy enchant, oh noes! ^^
I usually take Return, then position myself somewhere up high or in hiding, so any melee is rendered quite useless. I can easily outheal them if they decide to train something else, vigorous on the target, then patient followed by dwaynas kiss is quite powerful. The worst opponents are hammers (after their full chain, use patient then cop to heal to max) or diversion, but I usually keep their mesmer pinged so I can look what he's doing. As for rupts, all spells except for dwaynas are 1/4 sec so I laugh at rangers and mesmers.

Gave your build a try last night. Got to 24 with it and had a blast. It is a big change from the stale WoH bar. However, like rhanoct said, it's really fragile. The lack of veil makes lame mesmers who spam diversion and shame a huge problem. Still pretty fun though.

urania · Apr 25, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Pedantic much? Poison was the simplest example. I'm not going to explain every detail what draw is for, give tactical advise, save spikes by drawing DW, removing cripple before Trampling Ox or removing bleeding before gash, and how to use it when a Necro with FF is also on your team, possibly even explain the disadvantage of drawing blind if you're training for bonetti's 24/7 in a ballanced match.

concerns for e-management. If you're not spamming guardian or draw, you shouldn't need more e-management than bonetti's. As said before, Vigorous Spirit is very much underestimated in RA. Veil costs nothing but rupts, and spotless removes up to 4 hexes.

Ballanced stance = kiting is your e-management
Dolyak signet = free anti-kd, but prots required.

no, im not pedantic, you're simply inexperienced. obviously if you give drawing poison as an example you cant possibly know what you're talking about (the only time where drawing poison here and there does apply as constructive is with melandru's resilience boon monks). the foremost reason for taking draw over vig spirit (and vig spirit is one of the best counters to poison/other degen spread overall) was clearly blinds caused by (former) eda, followed by cripple. however, in both cases draw will drain your energy like mad, so either hope for a foul feast nec or for no physicals team/physicals with self cond removal.

sure, there will be instances where draw might come in handy, but the vast majority of cases where vig comes more in handy beats it by far.

if you oh so want to explain and advocate the use of draw conds then at least do it right. saying that you dont want to draw blind (or that its disadvantageous) because you want to build up bonettis is rather hilarious. i suppose you'll be doing the kills instead of your physicals, eh?

oh and on a side note, draw is next to useless with a ff nec on your team. one more reason why not taking it (obviously you will want to have such necs land on your team).

oh and please tell me who exactly underestimates vig spirit. anyone with half a brain will take it over draw any time. however, ra has but a handful of people with brain, and only a tad more with half a brain, so you might be right on that one.

not quite sure what you want to say with your point about veil, balanced stance and doliaks, and for the record, spotless removes 3 hexes at 14 heal IF you use enchanting staff.

have a nice day.

Jeydra · Apr 26, 2010, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Should mention somewhere that Draw Conditions triggers Disciple's Insignias for the +15 armour ...

Fate Crusher · Apr 26, 2010, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

no, im not pedantic, you're simply inexperienced. obviously if you give drawing poison as an example you cant possibly know what you're talking about (the only time where drawing poison here and there does apply as constructive is with melandru's resilience boon monks). the foremost reason for taking draw over vig spirit (and vig spirit is one of the best counters to poison/other degen spread overall) was clearly blinds caused by (former) eda, followed by cripple. however, in both cases draw will drain your energy like mad, so either hope for a foul feast nec or for no physicals team/physicals with self cond removal.

sure, there will be instances where draw might come in handy, but the vast majority of cases where vig comes more in handy beats it by far.

if you oh so want to explain and advocate the use of draw conds then at least do it right. saying that you dont want to draw blind (or that its disadvantageous) because you want to build up bonettis is rather hilarious. i suppose you'll be doing the kills instead of your physicals, eh?

oh and on a side note, draw is next to useless with a ff nec on your team. one more reason why not taking it (obviously you will want to have such necs land on your team).

oh and please tell me who exactly underestimates vig spirit. anyone with half a brain will take it over draw any time. however, ra has but a handful of people with brain, and only a tad more with half a brain, so you might be right on that one.

not quite sure what you want to say with your point about veil, balanced stance and doliaks, and for the record, spotless removes 3 hexes at 14 heal IF you use enchanting staff.

have a nice day.

Wehay typo gets me owned.

Avoiding your pedantic nature is cute. As I said, poison was just an example. Unlike you, i prefer to get a point across and not have to explain myself simply because members of this forum LOVE to look at the tiniest flaw of your argument. (example: typo; "omg you use draw only for poison?")

Look, i don't think you've realised but we're arguing different parts of the same argument. We know the uses for Draw and we know the disadvantages. Obviously drawing everything is a tactic for a monk running MR. Obviously if you can't remove conditions, draw's primary function would be to ensure damage can be done at it's highest efficiency, Next would be to save spikes drawing deep wound. There is no need to feel like you know more than me. I don't care.

What I meant for drawing blind was a tongue-in-cheek, I'm glad you noticed. But if you're not running guardian, you're going to want bonnetti's up quick. Drawing blind due to a b surge ele without bonnetti's charged is just going to let any melee jump all over you. Am I right about that? Approval please?

Don't bother to reply to this, It's getting a bit pathetic and as stubborn as ever.
Enjoy the game.

urania · Apr 26, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Wehay typo gets me owned.

Avoiding your pedantic nature is cute. As I said, poison was just an example. Unlike you, i prefer to get a point across and not have to explain myself simply because members of this forum LOVE to look at the tiniest flaw of your argument. (example: typo; "omg you use draw only for poison?")

Look, i don't think you've realised but we're arguing different parts of the same argument. We know the uses for Draw and we know the disadvantages. Obviously drawing everything is a tactic for a monk running MR. Obviously if you can't remove conditions, draw's primary function would be to ensure damage can be done at it's highest efficiency, Next would be to save spikes drawing deep wound. There is no need to feel like you know more than me. I don't care.

What I meant for drawing blind was a tongue-in-cheek, I'm glad you noticed. But if you're not running guardian, you're going to want bonnetti's up quick. Drawing blind due to a b surge ele without bonnetti's charged is just going to let any melee jump all over you. Am I right about that? Approval please?

Don't bother to reply to this, It's getting a bit pathetic and as stubborn as ever.
Enjoy the game.

its fairly uncute how you're trying to hide your inexperience. and no, poison is not to be drawn unless there's blind/cripple/dw applied too. tough luck. i dont "feel" i know more then you - i clearly DO know more than you (and hence i do draw blinds even if i run bonettis, however rarerly i use both at the same time). and i (sometimes) use a "normal" type of spotless that removes only 3 hexes, sorry.

i suppose you're forgetting a mowwa is a >tank<. so even if they do jump on you, you are not supposed to just roll over and die, unless you never heard of shield set and disciples insignias. and unless you dont have a 2nd defensive skill like: wary stance/defensive stance/shield bash/doliaks/whatever. many have done the math regarding the total armor of a mowwa, you should do it too.

so no, you can ask someone else for approval and yes, i will reply as much as i want to.
gl drawing poison in RA and have a nice day.

-Pluto- · Apr 26, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Speaking of MR, here's the version I run. It's the MR bar I run when I actually monk at least. If I monk for a bad team in RA the matches usually take longer, whereas when I war for a bad team in RA the match lasts under 2 mins. Monking for 6 mins and then losing anyway is more frustrating than dying in 30 seconds and getting a new match.

dwayna's kiss, patient, draw, cure, veil, vigorous spirit, guardian, mel's resilience.

It stands up really well vs hexes and condi pressure. Even if your removal can't keep up with the hexes, dwayna's can get you some hilarious heals. You do get wrecked by teams with lots of actual damage and very little degen, but it turns out that it's easier for people to just karate chop their keyboard and spread degen than it is to actually spread damage, so you seem to see a lot of that (or just people failing to do damage). Well, unless they just play fire ele or something, in which case you might lose to someone Karate chopping their keyboard after all. But in general I'd have to say the build is very...

my apologies in advance

... resilient.

And a decent option if you're sick of mow wohing all the time.

Jeydra · Apr 26, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Lol in which case I'll share the bar I run when I RA these days (which is, admittedly, very rare):

Mo/E
14 Divine
9 Healing
11 Protection

Blessed Light
Patient Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Shielding Hands
Guardian
Divine Spirit
Contemplation of Purity
Glyph of Lesser Energy

It's in no way as resilient as a standard Mo/W bar, but it is enormously more fun to play. You have to do more than just hit a stance when someone attacks you, and you also have 3 (!!) prots on the bar as opposed to the standard 1 (or 0). Not to mention Blessed Light is a fun elite that will keep up with mass hexes, and CoP + Patient means you're not afraid of Daze, although it does take 10 energy to remove. Energy can be a bit tough on this bar, but there is two energy management skills and GoLE is essentially an extra pip of energy regen.

Suggestions on the bar appreciated. I'm thinking in particular of using Vigorous Spirit, which I've not used seriously before (tried it once with PnH, though), but the spec will be hard.

-Pluto- · Apr 26, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I'd consider dropping rof for vig spirit, if you do decide to run it. I don't really consider rof a prot so much as an emergency heal anyway (though, you can sort of preprot an ele with it if you're not getting hit by any thing else). For atts, I'm thinking 13/11/11 is probably good if you want a stronger vig spirit. Weaker Blight, but stronger patient, so I think it even outs fairly well in bar pushing. Only other option is to lower your prot, but then you miss out on an important breakpoint for guardian.

Animate · Apr 27, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I never draw any poison or blind when I monk, it's just a waste of energy, a bsurge ele has more energy and time than me (or that warrior with plague touch ^^) and poison is better treated by Vig Spirit, Healing Breeze, Patient Spirit, Signet of Rejuvenation or WoH..... only skill somewhat useful against blind is Spotless Soul. Whenever I play with draw I only draw deep wounds; not even daze or cripple

The only exception being divine spirit, or the enemy inflicting next to zero damage, or if I'm just bored and want to lose - then I use draw on all targets including those not suffering from any conditions... ^^

I find empathic removal quite fun and versatile nowadays; owns up to two seeping wound sins at once and even high ranked gladiators call me a noob when I use it on my mesmer or ranger. On monk I sometimes prefer Blessed Light for a change these days. Not as powerful as WoH or ZB but more fun.

I do not go into RA expecting to win a lot, sometimes I take Plague Touch, Stormchaser, Dshot, or Disrupting Dagger against Blackout. Never really liked playing with Bonetti's Defense or Dolyak Signet.. usually have an abundance of energy even when maintaining 2 or more veils+covers against teams with hexers. Perhaps it's cause I don't heal assassins who continue to attack on empathy and such and just let them die.

The HC monk was nerfed too hard imo.. it's great against pressure and degen but fails not only against raw damage but also against hexes like diversion, corrupt enchantment..

Next time you see a warrior with flare it may be me; I just can't take RA serious esp. with the increasing bots.. it's fun to run something silly - enable local chat and enjoy. Going in for GladPoints is just guaranteed frustration. Ridiculously, running a nonsensical bar gets you reported for leeching because RA is srs bsns.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 27, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

uh cripple is pretty important to draw. on your melee it will seriously decrease their ability to pump damage and score kills, meaning more of your enemy's pressure will be turned to you. it's also important to draw crip caused by sw sins so you don't have to deal with drawing the TF.

FlexBuffchest45 · Apr 27, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Next time you see a warrior with flare it may be me; I just can't take RA serious esp. with the increasing bots.. it's fun to run something silly - enable local chat and enjoy. Going in for GladPoints is just guaranteed frustration. Ridiculously, running a nonsensical bar gets you reported for leeching because RA is srs bsns.

You must have been the warrior I saw the other day spamming ebon hawk + stoning.

Animate · Apr 28, 2010, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

uh cripple is pretty important to draw. on your melee it will seriously decrease their ability to pump damage and score kills, meaning more of your enemy's pressure will be turned to you. it's also important to draw crip caused by sw sins so you don't have to deal with drawing the TF.

Uhh really, you're smart.. you mean like, cripple is shutting your attackers down more than blind? Ah.. yea, especially ranged attackers, that must be. Sorry, I won't waste my energy removing either as a monk unless I really have nothing better to do.

Drawing the crip from SW sins delays the chain and dw for 4 seconds, drawing the crip+dw+bleeding altogether removes it for 15 seconds, either way you draw a deep wound with the only difference being that you can draw cripple every 4 sec and twisting every 15.. I said I draw deepwounds and drawing cripple from sw sins is like delaying/drawing a dw for every 4sec. "You don't have to deal with drawing the TF." No, you just have to deal with drawing the black mantis every 4 seconds then, I suppose. I want to see the monk who has the time and energy drawing all the blind and cripple and weakness off their attackers all the time. Perhaps in a crucial moment to score a kill, but always? Stop kidding me. This is the midline's job, anyway.

@Flex
No, but it sounds funny. Perhaps with warrior's endurance?^^

Bobby2 · Apr 28, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animate

Uhh really, you're smart.. you mean like, cripple is shutting your attackers down more than blind? Ah.. yea, especially ranged attackers, that must be. Sorry, I won't waste my energy removing either as a monk unless I really have nothing better to do.

Sounds pretty off to me. Here's numbers backing me up:
- Blind = 90% miss chance = 10% DOMAGE
- Cripple = melee unable to reach enemies? = 0% DOMAGE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animate

Drawing the crip from SW sins delays the chain and dw for 4 seconds, drawing the crip+dw+bleeding altogether removes it for 15 seconds, either way you draw a deep wound with the only difference being that you can draw cripple every 4 sec and twisting every 15.. I said I draw deepwounds and drawing cripple from sw sins is like delaying/drawing a dw for every 4sec. "You don't have to deal with drawing the TF." No, you just have to deal with drawing the black mantis every 4 seconds then, I suppose.

There are some sins, yes they exist, who have the sense to TF after Fox when the situation demands it instead of blindly going for Trampling. So you're both wrong on this account. xP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animate

I want to see the monk who has the time and energy drawing all the blind and cripple and weakness off their attackers all the time. Perhaps in a crucial moment to score a kill, but always?

If your team isn't putting out pressure there won't be any 'crucial moments'. 'All the time' versus 'often enough' is a big difference as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animate

Stop kidding me. This is the midline's job, anyway.

Off-monk removal? In RA? Apart from Feasting necros and the occasional Rit I can't think of any commonly encountered builds that aid monks in doing their job.

urania · Apr 28, 2010, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Sounds pretty off to me. Here's numbers backing me up:
- Blind = 90% miss chance = 10% DOMAGE
- Cripple = melee unable to reach enemies? = 0% DOMAGE

people in RA kite?
really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Off-monk removal? In RA? Apart from Feasting necros and the occasional Rit I can't think of any commonly encountered builds that aid monks in doing their job.

in ideal case scenario you, ofcourse, want a ff necro on your team - or at least a mending touch ranger.
as far as draw is concerned, id say blind/weakness and cripple have highest draw priorities on physicals and cripple/dw on casters.

Bobby2 · Apr 28, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

people in RA kite?
really?

When you play RA, do you kite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

in ideal case scenario you, ofcourse, want a ff necro on your team - or at least a mending touch ranger.
as far as draw is concerned, id say blind/weakness and cripple have highest draw priorities on physicals and cripple/dw on casters.

Rangers use MendTouch on others in RA?