Curse

tinygod · Jun 30, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

u mad?

123123

am I mad?

No.. I'm not mad.. just deeply saddend by the current state of our youth

I remember a time when we didn't need thing's like 10chars, 123123, we actually used whole setences. Oh well, time to accept the world as it is.

Master Ketsu · Jun 30, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I herd u waz pr0 warrereer

Reverend Dr · Jul 01, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Rage of the Ntouka give an advantage at the start of the match, but after more than 10 seconds of fighting, it greatly reduces a warrior's power.

Let me break this down. As a warrior attacks they gain adrenaline, if their adrenal skills are recharging (see rage) they don't gain adrenaline. Because of the recharge, using rage won't actually increase the frequency of use of the adrenal skills, but it will consume about 5 energy every 15 seconds. Not using Rage will leave you with a skill bar of 7 skills with no elite.

Now there is a sword version that works well in AB, but as much as people laugh at RA for letting anything work, AB is worse. Sever, Gash, Final, Bull's, Rage, Frenzy, Rush, Lion's. It works as long as you are killing things in less than ten seconds and are spending most of your time skirmishing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinygod

No.. I'm not mad.. just deeply saddend by the current state of our youth

I hate to be the one to break this to you (actually that's an expression, I really do enjoy this), but most internet memes that go around are not started by the youth, but by the late-20 and 30 populations. If I really have to explain why trying to 'act more mature', to 'take the high road', or trying to dismiss it as dumb youths is only encouraging this behavior, then you should just not be on the internet right now; you aren't ready for it.

tinygod · Jul 01, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Rage of the Ntouka give an advantage at the start of the match, but after more than 10 seconds of fighting, it greatly reduces a warrior's power.

Let me break this down. As a warrior attacks they gain adrenaline, if their adrenal skills are recharging (see rage) they don't gain adrenaline. Because of the recharge, using rage won't actually increase the frequency of use of the adrenal skills, but it will consume about 5 energy every 15 seconds. Not using Rage will leave you with a skill bar of 7 skills with no elite.

Now there is a sword version that works well in AB, but as much as people laugh at RA for letting anything work, AB is worse. Sever, Gash, Final, Bull's, Rage, Frenzy, Rush, Lion's. It works as long as you are killing things in less than ten seconds and are spending most of your time skirmishing.

I hate to be the one to break this to you (actually that's an expression, I really do enjoy this), but most internet memes that go around are not started by the youth, but by the late-20 and 30 populations. If I really have to explain why trying to 'act more mature', to 'take the high road', or trying to dismiss it as dumb youths is only encouraging this behavior, then you should just not be on the internet right now; you aren't ready for it.

Lol, so now taking the moral high ground isn't allowed on the internet? thanks Doctor, glad you let me know. But your "breaking it down" was nothing more than a clever flame in and of its self. I don't remember talking about meme's, I remember takling about using 10chars to end an other wise meaningless sentence. That is not a meme by the way.

On to your points.

Rage causes a 5 second recast, your right. but on a hammer bar where your last knockdown takes all of your adrenalin anways this isnt such a bad thing.

Use Burst of aggression for an IAS and now you have a free Increased attack speed for the spike, with no down side other than that you loose alll adrenalin when it ends.

you build adrenalin, use the spike once, rage to recharge use it again and than tap rush to change stances and you only have to wait

15 second recharge on rage, -5 seconds between the time you last used it and the time you finish your last spike = 10 seconds

10 seconds between spikes is not that much to wait for a spike that can be done twice.

you loose some pressure YES, and some interupts from knocdown but you gain a much bigger spike in my oppinion.

I have tested this build with burst of aggresion and I have never once had a complaint on my spiking ability. No to mention using rage to charge sprint and lions comfort in Aliance battles means I have an infinate running skill and can heal even when not building adrenalin.

I'm not saying its BETTER than the cookie cutter devestating hammer build, its Different. And to be honest I like it more.

Reverend Dr · Jul 01, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

You cannot Bash -> Pulverizing. Using 5 energy every 15 seconds is a large expenditure for a warrior. Why would you Bash -> Rage -> Pulverizing when you could just Bash -> Crushing for that same 5 energy, +dmg, 1 less slot, and on a 10 second cooldown (crushing) instead of a 15 (rage). Using an energy based IAS is going to exacerbate your problems. You simply do not have enough energy to use bull's, rage, and burst.

The build you posted isn't just "less effective than cookie cutter" its "shit terrible." Stop trying to hide behind "I want something different." There are plenty of build that are different but a hell of a lot more effective than the crap you are spewing here.

tinygod · Jul 02, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You cannot Bash -> Pulverizing. Using 5 energy every 15 seconds is a large expenditure for a warrior. Why would you Bash -> Rage -> Pulverizing when you could just Bash -> Crushing for that same 5 energy, +dmg, 1 less slot, and on a 10 second cooldown (crushing) instead of a 15 (rage). Using an energy based IAS is going to exacerbate your problems. You simply do not have enough energy to use bull's, rage, and burst.

The build you posted isn't just "less effective than cookie cutter" its "shit terrible." Stop trying to hide behind "I want something different." There are plenty of build that are different but a hell of a lot more effective than the crap you are spewing here.

LOL, now whos mad? Pissy much? Eliteist much? psss i'll give you a hint the answer is yes, you are.

Let me break this down for YOU

Most IAS are 5 energy.. Thats just the way it is. Flail (a staple of most hammer builds) is an adrenalin skill it is one of the only IAS's that use adren. Very few warriors have a problem managing this. adding 5 energy from Rage to this equation is not a problem. You are not a pressure build, that is a sword warrior's job. If you are using this spike every 15 seconds than you sir are not very smart. You should have a little down time in between where you are finding the right target, and waiting for the right moment.

This build allows you to trade pressure, and more Damage OVER TIME. For a much larger spike, due to it going through TWICE.

Burst of aggresion > body blow >Hammer bash > Rage of the Ntouka > Pulverizing smash > body blow > Hammer bash

that does two body blows, 1 pulverizing and 2 hammer bashes in one chain

if you worry about adrenalin than throw in auspicious blow to gain 8 energy this more than counters the use of Burst or Rage. and can be used twice, though only the 2nd one will gain energy.

Personaly I use this build alot now, without the Auspicious blow, and I have 0 problems with energy management. And I can kill anything thats now above 3/4 life with no issues.

I'm sorry you didint understand the build. Tried to imply that I was gonna hammerbash > pulverize and than mocked me for it.

Sounds to me like you have a GW Stick up your ass man. get over your self, if you couldnt even figure out the order of my skills for the spike, EVEN THOUGH I LISTED THEM, than you aren't good enough at this game to be dolling out insults without your advice.

Good day,

deluxe · Jul 02, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinygod

LOL, now whos mad? Pissy much? Eliteist much? psss i'll give you a hint the answer is yes, you are.

PvE is the other way man, only pve players come with this "elitist" bullshit.
Welcome to the internet.

EternalWarrior · Jul 02, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

PvE is the other way man, only pve players come with this "elitist" bullshit.
Welcome to the internet.

Are you trying to say that only PVE players complain about PVP being full of Eliteist's? Or are you saying PVE players are Eliteis't?

Slow down a bit when you rage type, it helps to make the insults sting a bit.

..................

Anways.

Tinygod, you really need to learn to calm down. You post something on the internet. The Freaking INTERNET And than you get all Pissy when someone trashes it. That's the way it works. Look just post it, and respond to the reply's that actualy mean something. If someone just trashes you than ingore it. They will eventualy go away. Well or they hijack the thread with lolcatz, either way.

As far as your build goes. Well to be fair,

Burst of aggresion > body blow >Hammer bash > Rage of the Ntouka > Pulverizing smash > body blow > Hammer bash

This does look pretty promosing. I only see a few problems:

The Goods:

Damage: I tested this, and that is a TON of damage. One of the highest Spikes Ive seen in a while. That much I will give you.

Knockdown: you got the 2 knockdowns in there, a clever way of using Hammer bash for sure.

Healing: Rage fules Lions comfort. Very nice since you can than use Lions comfort to refuel the adrenalin cool down timer to hold the spike in reserve. Also it means you can use lions comfort in other situations. Like when your are running away. So I can see the point about Alliance battles.

IAS/IMS: Using burst of aggresion (even though the good doctor will say other wise) really is a good idea in this build Since loosing the adrenalin doesnt matter much, because of the 5 second timer on all adren skills used under rage. Using RUSH is great, because you can rush every 15 seconds (shorter than the duration) meaning in an alliance battle you have an infinate rush, and full adrenalin when you get to the shrine/target.

The Bads

Knockdown: Your knockdowns are spread out in the build, which means that while you CAN technicaly quarter knock by using hammer bash > pulverize> rage > Hammer bash> body blow. (not a horrible spike by the way) if you use them in the order you listed, you end up with your knockdowns having a gap in them. A huge Gap, In testing it allowed my Guildmate to use a 3/4 casting time spell. which means attacking monks with it wont kill them, unless they are not very good, and they panic.

BUT you can use the chain I listed and quarter knock, on healers, and full out on others. Since you have burst of aggresion instead of flail, youll be able to pull the chain off no problem on all but the quickest of warriors, or stance dancers. But if you know they have shiled bast (alot of casters do) you need to use the Quarter Knock or your gonna take a hurtin when they catch hammer bash with it.

IN CLOSING: Look dont get discouraged, its always a treat to see someone come up with something new. And I feel your pain when it comes to Using the "cooke cutter' type builds. but remember they are the cookie cutters for a reason. they work in all circumstances. But as you said, if you know this build, and love it, youll learn when to use the full chain and when to use the half chain I posted. If you can do that, than there is no reason this build doesnt work. In some cases it will flat out BEAT the standard hammer bar.

I am actualy going to give this some thourough testing, and run it past some guildies. I can see this working in TA, Probably not in GVG, but its possible. You dont have a /secondary so there may be more that can be changed. Maybe loosing one attack skill for some versatility.

All in all its a solid build and well thought out. (though you kinda started with one build and went to another) but that's what forums like this are supposed to be for. You post an idea and get feed back. Most people have forgoten that or flat out never realized it. They use the forum for trolling. But dude take the high road (like you said) but heads up, talking smack back ISNT the high road. Its ignoring them.

PS: I actualy created an account ( I frequent to see whats new ) just to post to this comment. Because I liked the idea enough to want to try and maybe pull your butt from the fire. Ive read a few posts of yours and I can see you are getting frustrated. Don't get banned or QUIT or Rage or what not. calm down and get back to comign up wtih ideas. Beacuse dispite it all this is an example of something I like to see in this game.

I sent you a private message with some guild info, give me a chat in game.

tinygod · Jul 02, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Yeah, I guess youre right

I was getting a little pissy lol

Well thank for the goods and bads

that is exactly what I was looking for

I'll try and rework the skills a bit, to incorporate a little more utility. And I hadnt realized how big that gap was between knockdowns. I'll take a look at that later tonight.

Thanks man.

Master Fuhon · Jul 02, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Any number discussions have centered around spiking and team spiking in PvP over the years. There are many aspects to that one can look at: high damage vs. high repetition rate, flexibility to interchange skills vs. using a longer chain, vulnerability to defensive reactions (prots/stances/etc), decisions to sacrifice pressure capability on the warrior (as a previous meta W/A telespiker had done), ability to disguise a spike to have a defender use the right skills at the wrong time. But most importantly, there is a certain point in time when such high level in depth conversations cannot be had. From the discussion that was being had, there was a clear demonstration that a base knowledge had to be integrated prior to being able to hold a conversation among equals.

However, I will be explaining creativity instead. Creativity takes on a very raw form when first discovered. In this raw form, creativity does not have the capacity to stand toe-to-toe with habit. In fact, the only way to get creativity to a point where it can challenge a habit is to utilize creativity that has been developed as stronger than a personal habit. Within this current argument, we have a person who does not test his own builds adequately and a person who just made an account challenging the status quo.

The new and inexperienced are not ‘creative’. Creativity comes from having a large existing knowledge base of ideas to try. On the contrary, habit is new and inexperienced: people follow habit because they only know of one way to do things. The following definitions should be helpful:

Defender of creativity: one who grows creativity to a level where it is strong enough to challenge habit
Killer of creativity: one who exposes creativity in its raw form to being destroyed, allowing habit to take over

You do more damage by giving creativity a weak and irrational defense; the type of response that turns most of the community against coming up with new builds in the future. Creativity does not want that kind of defense.

Reverend Dr · Jul 02, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinygod

Eliteist much?

Yes, I am elitist. I have long since openly admitted to being an elitist shitter troll on more occasions than I can count.

Quote:

Burst of aggresion > body blow

I'm stopping this here, because that is where your spike is going to stop. You are not in IMS, simple kiting will prevent the bash from going off, BoA wears off and you have no adrenaline.

Okay start with Bash > (ntouka) Pulverizing > Body > Bash. There is no Q knock here. Okay, Bash > (ntouka) Pulverizing > Bash. How is this different than Elite KD > Crushing > Bash, they both cost 5 energy, double KD, deep wound, and use your elite skills? Simple the latter has +dmg on the DW and a 10 second cooldown instead of 15.

But the heart of the problem with your build is that (if you take anything from this post take this) you are calling 5 attacks in a row a spike. As a warrior if you can reliably get off five hits before a target receives any aid, it doesn't really matter what skills you have on your bar, you are going to roll them. As such it makes no since to build warrior bars designed for 5 hit combos. This is why warrior combos are 2-3 skills, that is all the room you are going to get. If you can get 5 or more hits, sure you take it, but you don't make a build that relies upon getting that many hits to be effective.

You've posted a thread about running a scythe sin with no attribute points in scythe mastery. You've posted a thread about minion masters in PvP. You instantly assume that all criticism are just flaming trolls with no merit. I am an asshole, but you have a terrible attitude and don't know nearly as much about this game as you think you do.

One has to understand the game, the whole game, before one can effectively create builds

Tearz1993 · Jul 02, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

One has to understand the game, the whole game, before one can effectively create builds

Quoting with every RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fiber of my being.

AmoebaInfectionTechnique · Jul 02, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Red engine gored engine gored engine gored engine go

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 02, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Grief every single caster you see in sight.

Ranger/Any

Apply Poison
Broad Head Arrow
Pin Down
Screaming Shot
Distracting Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Antidote Signet
Resurrection Signet

Atts - 12 Expertise 12 Marks 3 Wilderness (Minor Runes for all)

Get up close, activate LR and go BHA-Pin Down-Screaming Shot/Pin Down-BHA-Screaming Shot. Reserve Distracting Shot for Resurrections Signets, otherwise you'll be flamed for not doing your job.

Seraphim of Chaos · Jul 03, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lord of Milk

Grief every single caster you see in sight.

Ranger/Any

Apply Poison
Broad Head Arrow
Pin Down
Screaming Shot
Distracting Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Antidote Signet
Resurrection Signet

Atts - 12 Expertise 12 Marks 3 Wilderness (Minor Runes for all)

Get up close, activate LR and go BHA-Pin Down-Screaming Shot/Pin Down-BHA-Screaming Shot. Reserve Distracting Shot for Resurrections Signets, otherwise you'll be flamed for not doing your job.

needs more conditions imho :/ try throw dirst

Reverend Dr · Jul 03, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

As bad as the bar was, I did enjoy the old magebane, savage, d-shot, distracting shot, apply ranger. It reminded me of the old choking gas builds, only with more button mashing.

Krill · Jul 03, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

You have to fail pretty bad to need magebane and savage, of course some people do play that and still manage to let rez sigs go off.

bungusmaximus · Jul 03, 2009, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

You have to fail pretty bad to need magebane and savage, of course some people do play that and still manage to let rez sigs go off.

Lol true, needs only magebane and one other 'rupt, and that will most likely be d-shot.

Magebane bars with 3 interrupt skills is simply too much.

Reverend Dr · Jul 03, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

That was the point of that bar, to spam interrupts every attack, which is why it is reminiscent of choking gas. I've also seen a version with a pet and disrupting lunge (back when it was lower recharge).

bungusmaximus · Jul 04, 2009, 06:22 PM // 18:22

If you want that you will want BHA and a pet, thats beyond annoying, lock pet on monk, wait till he's not protted, and fire a BHA at him :P.

Need to get up close to make it hit though