Curse

Krill · Jun 28, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360°

No such a thing as RA meta. And read the title, this is not about TA.

Actually there kinda is since most of the decent players in RA that will threaten you use meta builds or gimmicks from, well you know where.

Naty Stride isn't a bad idea but in a no prot build I'd prefer a warrior stance + shield bash with patient spirit + CoP to drop daze in a hurry. Also, Naty Stride is only 50% block and ends if you use an enchant or become hexed.

I don't think all the people who say no prot fails understand how many SA sins there are in RA and necs just waiting to crap all over yellow arrows.

[build=OwEU04XBzKSaENg4FrF3E5V1EsEA]

^ That's pretty much become the bar good monks in RA use with a q8 shield. You can lower tactics and up protection to run guardian but with all the instagib ganks being ran these days why even bother. A careful shield bash gives you a lot more protection from dangerous melee and disciplined stance is the ultimate panic button when you're dazed or knocked down. People need to remember there's no communication in RA if you're in trouble, little midline support (cripshot, water etc.) and very few warriors that will tactically lineback, if there is such a thing in RA. So this is the bar you end up with rather than a balanced healing / prot bar.

*Edit

Just noticed Master Ketsu's post and yes, the prevalence of SoM and wounding strike crap has made it pretty much necessary to run draw & mending touch or else you pay dearly. Not to mention the usual ranger condi spreading that can add up very fast if it's not being cleared at all.

the_deSKtructor · Jun 28, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360°

No such a thing as RA meta. And read the title, this is not about TA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Actually RA does have a meta - its the TA meta in a retarded warped format were only half the players actually follow it, but it is noticeable. Its largely influenced by cookie cutter solo builds that can usually do well on their own - Me/n midnight, Dervish wounding strike, and others to name a few.

Prot monks are indeed having a harder time, I'm finding that monk builds that focus on self preservation and keeping your party clean are becoming more efficient.

That's what i mean, exluding noobs most of the players tend to play in ra the fotm builds.

360° · Jun 28, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Actually there kinda is since most of the decent players in RA that will threaten you use meta builds or gimmicks from, well you know where.

You can call that RA meta, but it doesn't fit into my definition of meta.

Meta, for me, is what everybody runs. In GvG and HA for example, there are clear metas. RA has a lot more diversity in the build section. It's hard to separate the actual meta in RA, so many bad builds but there are many good builds also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

I don't think all the people who say no prot fails understand how many SA sins there are in RA and necs just waiting to crap all over yellow arrows.

SA sins are relatively rare in RA. Necro's are more of a problem, but guardian only has 4 sec recharge, so it's still worth it.

In the rare situation, where the opposing teams melee bashes a non-monk target, there's very little you can do without Guardian. Spamming WoH + Patient with 3 guys bashing a target isn't gonna be enough (in most cases at least).

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

[build=OwEU04XBzKSaENg4FrF3E5V1EsEA]

I find CoP kinda irrelevant in that build, you could just use your stance and Mend touch the daze away.

In most cases if you face an anti-melee necro (supposing your team has melee, which is pretty likely to happen given all the narutards and wammos), you're in big trouble if you run only veil. One solution would be to run Spotless Mind.

urania · Jun 28, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Prot monks are indeed having a harder time, I'm finding that monk builds that focus on self preservation and keeping your party clean are becoming more efficient.

sad, but true =(

Zuranthium · Jun 30, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[build prof=R/P box beast=11+1+3 spear=11 exp=8+1][barbed spear][enraged lunge][optional][call of haste][otyughs cry][resurrection signet][comfort animal][charm animal][/build]

Dang I just love this build in ra, huge pressures, huge domoges works wonders on ra noobs.

I either take [feral aggression] or [disrupting lunge] for optional slot.

Take Merciless Spear instead of Barbed, and Brutal Strike as the optional.

~Z

glountz · Jul 04, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Oh, a RA thread.
I will post my most silly builds everynow and then. They have been nerfed now, but they used to be very funny - and effective.

[build=Owoj8oQ8KO51ZC7lgEPkHckUCA]

I created this monk build when Boon prots were at their peak. I used then Mend ailment instead of mending touch, and Holy veil instead of mystic regen. The goal of this build is to have insane heals. Back to proph, a single RoF was healing 200+ health, when sup runes (16 DF) were still okay. Its Life bond also seriously hamper physical damage, which is really common on RA.
This build works only in RA: you can only maintain 2 or 3 life bonds, and, you can only cycle Aura of Faith on 4 characters so RA, with 4v4 setup is perfect. You have to put Aura of faith and Life bond on everybody, as well as Balth spirit and Divine boon on you. It demands some practice to precast AoF and LB in good order to have a well preproted party. Because of so much enchants, Blessed signet will give you a lot of energy return. Aura of faith will make any spell you cast on an ally, even a spell with no healing involved, a very powerful heal thanks to your high divine favor and Divine boon.

I won a lot of victories with this build. The hit to boon prot was hard, but you could still play very well. You could still wait for an ally to get low health, then restore the full of it with an RoF.
When Nightfall was introduced, mystic regen and Mending touch were logical choices, after the nerf to mend ailment. Mystic regen then granted you +12 regen, more if you had RoF not triggered, giving you a high resilience against degen (which is a kind of damage that not triggers Balth spirit, so it is very problematic to heal).

Now that mystic regen was nerfed again, this build is very difficult to play efficiently. Effectively, now a lot of disenchant are cheap, recharge fast, or disenchant many enchants at once, which is very problematic. Back to Middle Age of Guild wars, disenchants had big recharges, were expensive, and rarely affected more than one enchant, so this build was resilient to disenchanting.

But give it a shot, it gave me a lot of fun.

Fuzzy Taco · Jul 08, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I still greatly enjoy ZB in RA.

[Reversal of fortune][Zealous Benediction][Dismiss condition][guardian][Shield of absorption][spirit bond][holy veil] and then [shield bash], [return], [disciplined stance], [distracting shot], [hammer bash]... lol. absolutely anything you like in the last spot. the current Arena meta, WoH, has unbeatable red bar management, but i prefer bigger, better prots from a ZB bar like this one.

Kurt · Jul 08, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Taco

I still greatly enjoy ZB in RA.

[Reversal of fortune][Zealous Benediction][Dismiss condition][guardian][Shield of absorption][spirit bond][holy veil] and then [shield bash], [return], [disciplined stance], [distracting shot], [hammer bash]... lol. absolutely anything you like in the last spot. the current Arena meta, WoH, has unbeatable red bar management, but i prefer bigger, better prots from a ZB bar like this one.

Maybe with that bar your prots are good, but I still find WoH 10 times better for healing. Certainly when they are attacking multiple targets I find more and better healing on your bar way better.

RiKio · Jul 08, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

[Power Block Owwwnz RA; OQBDAowjCFkROeMTRVIA]

It owns Flare Spammers.

Zuranthium · Jul 08, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I've been running this crazy bar a lot:

[build prof=Mo/W prot=12+1+1 divine=12+1][shield bash][restore condition][reversal of fortune][mending touch][guardian][deny hexes][heaven's delight][divine healing][/build]

I started using it after getting annoyed by having to fight condi stack spam and/or hex stacks pretty much every match. That stuff is incredibly frequent in RA right now.

Occasionally the build is bad but, more often, it's fun challenge with just enough healing to pull through against the teams that RC doesn't outright own.

~Z

Krill · Jul 08, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Taco

I still greatly enjoy ZB in RA.

[Reversal of fortune][Zealous Benediction][Dismiss condition][guardian][Shield of absorption][spirit bond][holy veil] and then [shield bash], [return], [disciplined stance], [distracting shot], [hammer bash]... lol. absolutely anything you like in the last spot. the current Arena meta, WoH, has unbeatable red bar management, but i prefer bigger, better prots from a ZB bar like this one.

Ah the old d-shot monk...that really can be a pain. I see entertainment value with hammer bash but is it effective?

Kurt · Jul 08, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

I've been running this crazy bar a lot:

[build prof=Mo/W prot=12+1+1 divine=12+1][shield bash][restore condition][reversal of fortune][mending touch][guardian][deny hexes][heaven's delight][divine healing][/build]

I started using it after getting annoyed by having to fight condi stack spam and/or hex stacks pretty much every match. That stuff is incredibly frequent in RA right now.

Occasionally the build is bad but, more often, it's fun challenge with just enough healing to pull through against the teams that RC doesn't outright own.

~Z

How often can you earn glad points with it?

Fuzzy Taco · Jul 08, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

@ Kurt - certainly a WoH bar has a lot more red-bar power, but i really like high-spec prots + Dismiss for 100+ point heals. WoH vs. ZB, imo, is what you'd rather have / what fits your playstyle - more healing through pressure, or better prots vs. whatever. i understand WoH's incredible ability to keep your team alive, but i've honestly never liked it when i play it. solid prots haver always kind of helped me make up for the lack of a midline that's going to reduce your damage/hexes/conditions taken in RA.

@ Zuranthium - i'll have to try that. i've always enjoyed outside the box builds, and that looks pretty fun while also maintaining a decent level of playability. i'm assuming Shield Bash is a variable self-defense skill? also, how do you find those party heals to work in RA with the insanely bad positioning that's almost taken for granted there?

@ arienrhode - Hammer Bash is just there for fun, really. if you're bored, it's certainly VERY entertaining to charge adren on a Furious Spear on your low set or something, then switch to a hammer and interrupt Devastating or Backbreaker, or KD the surviving monk on their team, int a Migraine on their team, etc. is it the best choice? no. i just find it fun to run.

i honestly do like DShot on a monk, though. considering you have no guaranteed midline in RA, the ability to DShot Migraine, Wounding Strike, Arcane Echo (to be used on Wail of Doom), Defile Defenses, you name it - DShotting Backbreaker alone can save you from having to prot an entire KD lock, and on top of that, he can't KD lock you for an additional 20 seconds.

Zuranthium · Jul 08, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Taco

@ Zuranthium - i'll have to try that. i've always enjoyed outside the box builds, and that looks pretty fun while also maintaining a decent level of playability. i'm assuming Shield Bash is a variable self-defense skill? also, how do you find those party heals to work in RA with the insanely bad positioning that's almost taken for granted there?

Actually, Shield Bash is pretty necessary (it's also insanely fun to use). You need something that thwarts Hammer Warriors and Assassins; Shield Bash is the only thing really available with the spec you've got open (you need full prot and divine, can't really spec past 3 in any other attribute). I suppose you could take Deadly Riposte, but I find Shield Bash to be much better because it disables part of their combo for an extra amount of time, which relieves quite a bit of pressure, and if the attack was unblockable they still get KDed and won't kill you.

The party heals work pretty well. People stay in range enough and if you're healing 3 people with a cast that is efficient enough.

Lack of direct non-conditional healing can definitely be a problem, though. I'm going to try this version later on:

[build prof=Mo/W heal=11+1+1 prot=10+1 divine=10+1][shield bash][restore condition][reversal of fortune][mending touch][patient spirit][guardian][cure hex][holy veil][/build]

~Z

hurric · Jul 08, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

which is why exactly I run [Defile Defenses] on my necro and as soon as they put guardian or shield bash on I dd them and then corrupt the enchant. It's quite fun!

-Pluto- · Jul 09, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Back when patient first got buffed, one of the first things i tried was an RC monk with patient spirit in RA. It actually worked fairly well, too. Even when there were no condition stacks, patient was still about as efficient as gift, so it generally handled itself at least as well as an old blight used to.

Currently, I've been running an upgraded version of Soul Wedding's Scribe's Insight boon prot monk.

[build prof=mo/r protection=12+1 DivineFavor=12+1+1][signet of devotion][reversal of fortune][draw conditions][deny hexes][guardian][antidote signet][scribe's insight][divine boon][/build]

Naturally, just spam antidote signet and sig devo whenever you can. Harder to do when you're being trained (especially devo. Antidote will probably be something you'll want to spam while you're being trained anyway since most people will be spamming condis on you too)

It's actually turned out to be pretty nice against a lot of the bullshit you run into in RA. Humsig is pretty useless because you only need your elite once every 30+ seconds, and daze comes right off since it's almost always just covered by poison. rof spam can usually get you by for a little while when it's migraine (and sig devo works in this case since most mes interrupts can't hit it) or if you get hit by a daze covered by something else, like bleeding or deep wound.

It's biggest weakness is no veil (I found being able to clean stacks of 3 [4 if i recast boon as well] hexes off my melee more important and more commonly useful), and wounding strike dervs or cripslash wars can outpace your antidote signet since it can't remove deep wound, bleeding, and cripple at the same time. If it's enough of a problem, you can put dismiss in for draw, at the expense of not being able to clean your team as well. Between that and antidote, anything short of daze should come right of yourself. And you should also be getting a 180+ point heal counting DF and boon when you use it on yourself or anyone else enchanted. Not too bad a deal either way.

Zuranthium · Jul 09, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

It's biggest weakness is no veil

Getting owned by knock-locks looks like a much bigger one to me.

I never play a Monk in RA if it doesn't have a way to deal with extended KDs because, aside from Mesmer shutown or huge amounts pressure, that's the only thing that ever kills.

~Z

RhanoctJocosa · Jul 10, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

who needs stances on a monk when every second person is running me/n?

Fuzzy Taco · Jul 11, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

i hardly find it to be a good idea to build off of my teammate in RA, where the builds on your team and the skill level of the players controlling them is totally out of your hands. Me/Ns are common, but i'd hardly lose my Natural Stride because i hope to goodness gracious one of them poofs onto my team.

inb4 sarcasm on the internet

Krill · Jul 11, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

who needs stances on a monk when every second person is running me/n?

I wouldn't say there's that many but it's still a problem. A lot of the SoM mes's in RA are really bad and not terribly effective. The bigger problem I have monking are curses necs that can can totally paralyze martial classes with bars full o' hexes.

With the huge nerf to telespikes today (enough to put up guardian) monking in RA might actually be somewhat sane now and not require stances.