Curse

Shuuda · Nov 22, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Hey I don't mind if YOU don't carry self heal, I didn't get my 1,213 Glad points by fighting people that knew how to play RA well. I did get them by bringing self heal in every build though except when I first started I ran an RaO thumper and died a lot without a Monk. I haven't run RaO in RA since.

I judge the quality of RA monking by how often I have to use the self heal. Most games I still have to.

That's a retard way of judging a monk, using a self heal(or any self survival tactic) can greatly lessen the burden of a monk. When I monk, I would expect people should still kite, and use blocking.

A self heal is not needed. However, somekind of Self survival tactic is most certainly needed, at all times, in all forms of PvP, this can include:

Kiting (it works even without a stance)
Kiting with a stance (Like Mo/A with Dark escape or warriors using Rush)
A block Stance (Like Natural Stride, or shield bash on monks)
Blinding (Ineptitude, blinding surge)
A Snare (like Mo/A using return, or even crippling shot ranger)
Condition remover (most rangers these days use mending touch)

And, there's nothing wrong with packing a self heal, if you have room for it.

Byron · Nov 22, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

I will drop enraging charge for BS.

But I heart final thrust.

Maiyn · Nov 23, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Don't laugh, I'm so serious !

Mo/X

rof
guardian
spirit bond
word of heal (e)
dismiss condition
signet of rejuv (could swap out for something else, but it's fun !)
holy veil
aegis (again, swap out if you fail at kiting / pre-prot)

i seriously roll people like no ones business with this bar, and it might just be because i'm an awesome monk, but seriously. i wouldn't run anything else. if you're that tentative run a stance instead of aegis but you're missing out on a blockfiesta if you drop it. Just run up, cast aegis on your team before they engage and BLAMMO 10 seconds of advantage against those icky heavy melee teams that are so prevalent in RA. Maybe cure hex / hexbreaker but I don't have gwen so i didn't try that.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS - everyone please stop taking bars half full of defensive trash, take high pressure heavy damage skills / shutdown / KD please please please. I know you don't always get a monk, but when you do you'll ownnnn

I hear rez signet is fun too ;D

Ecklipze · Nov 23, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

14 Expertise
12 Wilderness Survival
9 Marksmanship
3 Protection Prayers

[skill]Barbed Arrows[/skill][skill]Poison Arrow[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Being able to keep an entire team at -7 degen is quite something, and is great pressure on the monks in RA too.

If you can land a D-shot on Dismiss, it's pretty much GG if the rest of your team is competant.

Downsides are the fact Barbed only lasts 18 seconds and is easily interupted, but using it while under Natural Stride and not under fire can help you keep it up most of the time.

Lord Natural · Nov 23, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

14 Expertise
12 Wilderness Survival
9 Marksmanship
3 Protection Prayers

[skill]Barbed Arrows[/skill][skill]Poison Arrow[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

If you can land a D-shot on Dismiss, it's pretty much GG if the rest of your team is competant.

Really? When I play this build in RA I love monks who waste their energy spamming dismiss every 3 seconds for a sub-par heal when the conditions are reapplied almost instantly. Granted, there's not much else they can do. But you're still better off hitting their money heal. It used to be a d shot on ZB when running condition pressure was pretty much game over. Wait for the wiping, hit the resses. I guess that might be woh now? Or do people still run ZB?

Guillaume De Sonoma · Nov 23, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

When I monk in RA if I lose to a team that is mostly degen it is because I got my WoH dshotted.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 23, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

14 Expertise
12 Wilderness Survival
9 Marksmanship
3 Protection Prayers

[skill]Barbed Arrows[/skill][skill]Poison Arrow[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Being able to keep an entire team at -7 degen is quite something, and is great pressure on the monks in RA too.

If you can land a D-shot on Dismiss, it's pretty much GG if the rest of your team is competant.

Downsides are the fact Barbed only lasts 18 seconds and is easily interupted, but using it while under Natural Stride and not under fire can help you keep it up most of the time.

I think we came to the conclusion this build is freakin bad earlier

R A N D O M · Nov 23, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

yea, it was posted

erk · Nov 23, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

That's a retard way of judging a monk, using a self heal

Yes it is, but it works for me and I can quickly pick the crappy Monks from how many times I have to self heal, a good Monk and I don't sef heal at all and get to conscentrate on killing things.

I just finished an RA game on "The Crag" kill count map. 3 x Warriors and a channeling Rit vs Monk, Sin, Mindblast Ele and an Ranger. Non of the Warriors had any self heal that I noticed. 0 to 14 was the final kill count. They couldn't even stay alive long enough to kill the Monk once.

Master Ketsu · Nov 24, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Yes it is, but it works for me and I can quickly pick the crappy Monks from how many times I have to self heal, a good Monk and I don't sef heal at all and get to conscentrate on killing things.

.

No, Shuuda is right. counting self heal use frequency is the most ignorant way to judge a monk their is. Prot monks heal differently. Certain teams may cause a monk to change his/her strategy.

If you want to judge a monk, judge them but what they do. Are they catching spikes ? Are they correctly protting targets ? Are they positioning correctly ? Can they defend themselves at least ? Are they removing key hexes/key conditions or just spamming Dismiss/deny/veil whenever they see a down arrow ?

Signs of a bad monk:

-Only uses [skill]guardian[/skill] on themselves, hence they dont actually pay attention to the battle and are not watching for targets.
-Poorly timed heals ( depends on the heal they are using )
-Stupid/ineffective build ( Breeze/orison monk. Monk that tries to smite and heal without smiters boon. Frenzied defense, ect. )
-Cant catch a spike worth crap.
-Seems oblivious to chat. Gets annoyed at you for saying "I have blind on me !" or something similar ( Good monks actually prefer you to spam when under a critical condition )

Signs of a good monk.

-Pre protting. See that fully adrenal charged warrior coming at you ? See that guardian/SB appear one second before he actually gets to you ? That would be a good monk.
-Uses their build effectively. Ex: If they are ZB, they try to get the bonus from it rather then just spamming away.Sidenote: ZB monks are a good reason why judging a monk based on self heal usage is Stupid.
-Can survive massive spikes, such as shadow prison. And save you from it as well.
-prioritizes Hex/condition removal. For example, a good monk will prioritize using Dismiss on a warrior who is being sat on by a bsurge over a poisoned warrior, where a bad monk wont know the difference.
-PRE VEILING GOD DAMMIT.
-Build effectively heals. No breeze crap. No smite crap.
-Good use of RoF, in that they use RoF as a buffer for larger heals during spikes.

But your self heal usage ? FAIL. it greatly depends on what your doing and what the other team has.

yum · Nov 24, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

But I heart final thrust.

I still take BS.

By the time I reach final thrust, frenzy runs out or I cancel frenzy before final(depend on the situation). The KD of BS is still nicer than the bonus EC and worth the drawback of final (that build is a pressure one anyway).

Riotgear · Nov 24, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

-prioritizes Hex/condition removal. For example, a good monk will prioritize using Dismiss on a warrior who is being sat on by a bsurge over a poisoned warrior, where a bad monk wont know the difference.

That's pretty hard in RA where no one calls debuffs ever. In fact they seem to ignore them completely for the most part. I love seeing an ally melee's health bar staggering down, then I realize they've got SS/IP/Empathy or some shit like that on them, so I try removing it, realize it's already covered, and they're still killing themselves and I'm trying to powerheal them while the rest of their team's trying to stomp me.

bungusmaximus · Nov 24, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

That's pretty hard in RA where no one calls debuffs ever. In fact they seem to ignore them completely for the most part. I love seeing an ally melee's health bar staggering down, then I realize they've got SS/IP/Empathy or some shit like that on them, so I try removing it, realize it's already covered, and they're still killing themselves and I'm trying to powerheal them while the rest of their team's trying to stomp me.

The only thing I usually do against that is watching the enemy necro and try to drop the veil just when he finishes casting his money hex. Too bad this can get messy when you have to shake off 2 LOLsins and a mesmer at the same time :P.

Master Ketsu · Nov 24, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

That's pretty hard in RA where no one calls debuffs ever. In fact they seem to ignore them completely for the most part. I love seeing an ally melee's health bar staggering down, then I realize they've got SS/IP/Empathy or some shit like that on them, so I try removing it, realize it's already covered, and they're still killing themselves and I'm trying to powerheal them while the rest of their team's trying to stomp me.

I just look at them when monking. Blind is pretty obvious with the trail of black coming out of their head. Dazed is equally obvious, so is crippled and deep.

Its really not that hard to see.

yum · Nov 24, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

That's pretty hard in RA where no one calls debuffs ever. In fact they seem to ignore them completely for the most part. I love seeing an ally melee's health bar staggering down, then I realize they've got SS/IP/Empathy or some shit like that on them, so I try removing it, realize it's already covered, and they're still killing themselves and I'm trying to powerheal them while the rest of their team's trying to stomp me.

Before the match start, I tell my monk to remove only if I call the hex. Communication is the key

It's weird that you said ppl didnt call. Well, maybe I was playing in ID.

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 25, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Before the match start, I tell my monk to remove only if I call the hex. Communication is the key

It's weird that you said ppl didnt call. Well, maybe I was playing in ID.

If you don't play in ID, you can't go through one game without a noob.

erk · Nov 25, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

No, Shuuda is right. counting self heal use frequency is the most ignorant way to judge a monk their is. Prot monks heal differently. Certain teams may cause a monk to change his/her strategy.

Yes I agree, but you won't stop me doing it because it's generally accurate, if the prey prot and all those nice things I don't need to self heal, because I am taking less damage, it's that simple.

LightningHell · Nov 25, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Yes I agree, but you won't stop me doing it because it's generally accurate, if the prey prot and all those nice things I don't need to self heal, because I am taking less damage, it's that simple.

The survival of the team isn't just the Monk's job. It's a coordinated team effort.

Byron · Nov 26, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

I still take BS.

By the time I reach final thrust, frenzy runs out or I cancel frenzy before final(depend on the situation). The KD of BS is still nicer than the bonus EC and worth the drawback of final (that build is a pressure one anyway).

I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but against highly defensive teams, I run into problems without the threat of a spike. Plus, it's just tasty to nail the final thrust after the gash takes them to just below 50%. It's like a birthday present or summink.

Shuuda · Nov 26, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Yes I agree, but you won't stop me doing it because it's generally accurate, if the prey prot and all those nice things I don't need to self heal, because I am taking less damage, it's that simple.

But even if the monk is good, his pre prots can still fail, via enchantment strip or if the warrior suddenly switches target (a bit far fetch'd for RA, but could happen)