Curse

Cammy · Nov 19, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

wtb:
defense: a warr stance (NOT frenzied defense) or shield bash
purge sig instead of remove hex
guardiannnnnnnnn
spirit bond, because you're a softie atm and gonna meet plenty other softies in ra too (not a must, but still nice)
switch draw for mend condi, draw is energy leecher for monks, even if it can be good in some cases.

Isn't Draw > Mend Condition when it comes to actual condition removal though? Draw can pull a buried blind or deep wound and provides conditions for mend touch for 1/4 cast and 5e while Mend would have to be cast at least twice (depending on number of stacked conditions) at 5e per cast and also with 3/4 cast time.

Like imo, draw is great for bursts when you need to keep melee clean in order for them to take out a bsurge or need to kill a rit standing by shadowsong.

I'm not r8+ like Karla though so I wouldn't know T_T

karunpav · Nov 20, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

[skill]Earth shaker[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Mighty Blow[/skill][skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

ensoriki · Nov 20, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

---Ensin 2.0 >.>
Dagger mastery: 11+1+1
Deadly arts 11+1
shadow: 8
Skills
[card]Siphon Strength[/card] / [card]Shroud of Silence[/card]
[card]Dancing Daggers[/card]
[card]Wild Strike[/card]
[card]Nine Tail Strike[/card]/[card]Death blossom[/card]
[card]Impale[/card]
[card]Dash[/card]/ [card]Dark escape[/card]/ [card]Crippling Dagger[/card]
[card]Shadow refuge[/card]/ [card]Feigned Neutrality[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card] / [card]Disrupting Dagger[/card]

mmm ya.

mmm ya.

erk · Nov 20, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunpav

[skill]Earth shaker[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Mighty Blow[/skill][skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

No self heal means gg in RA.

Too many of these builds are like the RA builds on the Pvxwiki which make me laugh. They are marked as "Great" for RA but contain absolutely no self heal.

I am sick of going into game after game and being the last person standing with a used res because the other 3 players chose TA builds with no self heal. It means you have to keep playing until you get a monk which can take ages or you get 3 of em! In that time I could have had a Glad point if people could just do a basic self heal, nothing fancy.

Mr Emu · Nov 21, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

no monk essentially=death regardless of selfhealing
monk essentially=no death regardless of selfhealing

TheOneMephisto · Nov 21, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

No self heal means gg in RA.

Too many of these builds are like the RA builds on the Pvxwiki which make me laugh. They are marked as "Great" for RA but contain absolutely no self heal.

I am sick of going into game after game and being the last person standing with a used res because the other 3 players chose TA builds with no self heal. It means you have to keep playing until you get a monk which can take ages or you get 3 of em! In that time I could have had a Glad point if people could just do a basic self heal, nothing fancy.

Not necessarily. If that extra skill will help you kill the enemy faster then it might be worth it to just not waste time healing and kill them.

erk · Nov 21, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

no monk essentially=death regardless of selfhealing
monk essentially=no death regardless of selfhealing

I often get glad points without dedicated healers eg. Monks/Rits in the party. Usually with experienced players in the team though.

The common argument that if you kill fast enough you don't need self healing is inaccurate and misleading.

moko · Nov 21, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I often get glad points without dedicated healers eg. Monks/Rits in the party. Usually with experienced players in the team though.

The common argument that if you kill fast enough you don't need self healing is inaccurate and misleading.

RA stomps.

if you get stomped, you kite, and not use a selfheal. if they don't stomp, you don't take damage, if you don't take damage, you don't need a selfheal.

RA picks off one by one..you seriously going to use healsig? i lol.

also using 'pvxwiki' is so dumb, stop it.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 21, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

No self heal means gg in RA.

uhm, no.

and pvxwiki is dumb

TheOneMephisto · Nov 21, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

The common argument that if you kill fast enough you don't need self healing is inaccurate and misleading.

I'm pretty sure that if they're dead they can't kill you.

Basically, lots of the time I don't want to sit around and use a self-heal when I could be killing things. Also, I can't exactly count on my teammates to do much, so I want to be killing as much as I can. Basically, I'm counting on my teammates having res sigs, and so I'm hoping that I can kill enough before I have to get ressed that we can burn out their sigs faster.

Of course, that means on a monkless team vs monk team I'm going to lose, but I probably would've lost either way.

Master Ketsu · Nov 21, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

The common argument that if you kill fast enough you don't need self healing is inaccurate and misleading.

Its actually quite true, however its a good idea to bring self defense. Note that self defense doesn't always mean a straight heal. A defensive stance or self condition removal is enough defense. Res sig is a must on offensive bars.

Not to say self heal is a bad thing, but you should only bring a self heal when your build allows it. If you split 10 atts into something JUST for a self heal, you are wasting points. if their happens to be a self heal that you can fit on your bar and doesnt require extra atts, then its a good idea. If their is a skill that would round your build out and increase your overall output, you should take that over a self heal.

For instance, a ranger can get away with nothing but Stride and mend touch on his bar. You dont need troll that bad. A Anti melee hex necro shouldnt split into blood magic for self healing, shutting down melee is plenty of self defense for your team. A blindbot doesnt need a self heal either for the same reasons.

Short version: You dont need self healing, but a No monk team should at least have some utility.

Pyro maniac · Nov 21, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

A Anti melee hex necro shouldnt split into blood magic for self healing, shutting down melee is plenty of self defense for your team.

bad example, since you'll be taking parasitic bond with it. Wich is a self-heal if spammed on all opponents.

overall, I agree.

Chthon · Nov 21, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I don't RA terribly much, but here's my take on self-healing:

You absolutely need to have some from of self-preservation. It doesn't necessarily have to be a heal -- it can be a block stance, or a run stance, or shutdown, or some form of damage prevention/reduction -- but you do need to have it.

Good offense as a good defense works right up until you face a team that actually has a good defense. As soon as you run into that healer/protector who slows down your offense, you fall apart because you can't handle a long fight, but they can. Only once (in my relative few trips to RA) have I ever found myself placed with a team with so much raw offensive power (and the coordination to spike with it) that our self-preservation skills were unnecessary. If you leave self-preservation off your bar in anticipation of eventually finding a team like that, you're going to go through a whole lot of losses that could have been wins had you just brought some self-preservation in the first place.

Byron · Nov 21, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

[skill]crippling slash[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]frenzy[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]natural healing[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Sword=12+1+1
Strength=6+1
Wind prayers = 11

My preferred waru build in RA atm. Natural healing is nifty.

yum · Nov 22, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

[skill]crippling slash[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]frenzy[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]natural healing[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Sword=12+1+1
Strength=6+1
Wind prayers = 11

My preferred waru build in RA atm. Natural healing is nifty.

I will drop enraging charge for BS.

erk · Nov 22, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I'm pretty sure that if they're dead they can't kill you.

Of course, that means on a monkless team vs monk team I'm going to lose, but I probably would've lost either way.

Really, so you have never died from a hex/degen/condition after you killed the caster or tried to kite out of danger? You must be very lucky.

yum · Nov 22, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Really, so you have never died from a hex/degen/condition after you killed the caster or tried to kite out of danger? You must be very lucky.

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Death is something to be expected in RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Basically, lots of the time I don't want to sit around and use a self-heal when I could be killing things. Also, I can't exactly count on my teammates to do much, so I want to be killing as much as I can. Basically, I'm counting on my teammates having res sigs, and so I'm hoping that I can kill enough before I have to get ressed that we can burn out their sigs faster.

QFE.

Edit: srry. I mistook.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 22, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Really, so you have never died from a hex/degen/condition after you killed the caster or tried to kite out of danger? You must be very lucky.

And you need to stop taking things so literally. You know what the point of that statement was, there's no need to nitpick at it.

And then the other benefit of not running with a self-heal is when you actually get a team with a monk, you're going to be much more effective and you're going to win games faster. You'll also have a much higher ability to defeat other monk teams, as you'll actually have the damage to break them.

And btw, yum, that wasn't my quote.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 22, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

[skill]crippling slash[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]frenzy[/skill][skill]rush[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]natural healing[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Sword=12+1+1
Strength=6+1
Wind prayers = 11

My preferred waru build in RA atm. Natural healing is nifty.

I run an axe version of that with bull's in the 3rd attack slot. It's good.

erk · Nov 22, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

And you need to stop taking things so literally. You know what the point of that statement was, there's no need to nitpick at it.

And then the other benefit of not running with a self-heal is when you actually get a team with a monk, you're going to be much more effective and you're going to win games faster. You'll also have a much higher ability to defeat other monk teams, as you'll actually have the damage to break them.

Hey I don't mind if YOU don't carry self heal, I didn't get my 1,213 Glad points by fighting people that knew how to play RA well. I did get them by bringing self heal in every build though except when I first started I ran an RaO thumper and died a lot without a Monk. I haven't run RaO in RA since.

I judge the quality of RA monking by how often I have to use the self heal. Most games I still have to.