Curse

Master Ketsu · Sep 06, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Frenzied D on a ZB monk is only good until you run into someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Even Going Mo/a for Shroud of distress is better. FD fails. Just use gaurdian,

Shuuda · Sep 06, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

The Critical Disenchantment Spear Assassin

First of all, I do not claim ownership or credit for this build, I recalled seeing this build somewhere and I found it very interesting, but I doubted if it actually worked any good, after testing in RA, I found it to be a highly successful build, being able to pressure monks and counter annoyances like Geotanks and tank dervs etc. Although it doesn't kill as fast as most spiking sins, it does get the job done.

Attributes

Critical Strikes 13 - 14 (Headgear + Minor)
Spear Mastery 12
Shadow arts the rest.

Gear

Suvivor armor.
A zealous spear of enchanting with +5 energy mod.
A shield with +45HP and -2 damage whiles enchanted.

Skills

Vicious attack
Wild Throw (or unblockable throw)
Critical Defence
Dark Apostasy [e]
Shadow Refuge
Way Of The Warrior
Critical Eye
Ressurection Signet

Usage

Basicly it's easy, simply keep up WotW, Critical eye and Dark Apostasy when attacking, Critical defence acts as long lasting block stance. Use Vicious to perform damage and apply deep wound, and Wild throw can be used to get past stances or blocks (e.g: SoD on monks, if wild throw hits critical it will get removed)

Feel free to flame away, ya sea monkeys.

Servant of Kali · Sep 06, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

And I dont know where you're getting the idea that Ritualists can deal with pressure better than monks. They cant.

Actually, Ritualist are very good against pressure in RA. They do have slight problems with spike and daze, but that's about it. Rt healer is not to be underestimated in RA, IMO. Rt's are good for pressure because of insane e-management they can get (Soothing Memories, kiting around Preservation spirit if you took that instead of SLWeapon elite, personally I love Resilient weapon which is good in 4v4).

I'd say Shield of Regen Life bonder is still the best option for RA. Sure, you might be unlucky and run into some guy who will mess you up, but more often than not you can simply plow through battles.

Diddy bow · Sep 06, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

[skill]Tiger's Fury[/skill][skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Charm animal[/skill][skill]Enraged Lunge[/skill] [skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill] [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

12 spear mastery
10+1+2 beast mastery
8+2 expertise
1 dire pet

Best build ever.

Neo-LD · Sep 06, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunabreath

i remember the days when you could take a boon prot in and get 10 consecutive 75%+ of the time. for whatever reason it's not that easy any more.

While certain kinds of monks today are perfectly capable of self-preservation, none of the modern viable templates can even come close to the old boonprots ability in that category. Booned RoF was (is) bigger, faster, and more readily available than any other self healing option that monks have. 90% of RA teams back in the day couldnt even break through that, regardless of the other 6 skills on the monk's bar, so good boonprot monks could pretty much carry their team to as many victories as the desired, almost regardless of how crappy the rest of their team was.

However, now that Boonprot is weak(er), and different templates have become the standard. These new designs (specifically ZB) are much more efficient (boon prot's weakness) but are less sturdy, prone to giving up deaths before they are out of energy, and are in general more difficult to use. Also, offensive potential has continuously ramped up, such that against certain kinds of teams it is simply unrealistic for a monk to expect himself to last forever - just as long as possible, and hope that's enough time for his team to get the job done. Because of this, even great monks will often lose in RA due to the shortcomings of their teammates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Actually, Ritualist are very good against pressure in RA. They do have slight problems with spike and daze, but that's about it. Rt healer is not to be underestimated in RA, IMO. Rt's are good for pressure because of insane e-management they can get (Soothing Memories, kiting around Preservation spirit if you took that instead of SLWeapon elite, personally I love Resilient weapon which is good in 4v4).

Hey, I didnt say they were bad against pressure, just that they arent as good as monks. They have worse condi removal, no hex removal, and most of their best skills are prohibatively limited by cast time, recharge, or energy cost. It'll sometimes work in RA, sure, but better than a monk? I think not.

Zuranthium · Sep 06, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

[skill]Tiger's Fury[/skill][skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Charm animal[/skill][skill]Enraged Lunge[/skill] [skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill] [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

12 spear mastery
10+1+2 beast mastery
8+2 expertise
1 dire pet

Best build ever.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure I could make it better simply by adding an 8th skill? Also, the major expertise rune is very nearly worthless. 10 expertise doesn't do anything more than 9 expertise. It will only ever help you if you have weakness on...I'll take the 35 extra HP.

~Z

Diddy bow · Sep 06, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Oh right, that little x is the 8th skill, its just guru deosnt have eotn yet, its companionship btw

. As for the expertise, ive just always had it that way, although it deos reduce tigers fury and confort if needed i suppose i dont really need it, ill try without it and see if i run into energy problems ^^.

Scrimbul · Sep 07, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Also, offensive potential has continuously ramped up, such that against certain kinds of teams it is simply unrealistic for a monk to expect himself to last forever - just as long as possible, and hope that's enough time for his team to get the job done. Because of this, even great monks will often lose in RA due to the shortcomings of their teammates.

I think this part in particular is what I'm noticing. It's been the trend Anet works towards, even if they backslide a bit monks have never been as strong as boonprot was, and Anet knows they never want them to be that strong again.

The other side of this is that there are certain skills that if you aren't aware someone has them at the start of the match, you're done for. Especially if you choose not to use a block stance. Most assassin lead hexes are like this, and mesmers don't even need Migraine anymore by and large. They can just use frustration and power return to get similar results as Migraine + speccing into domination for interrupts.

If Anet was looking to reduce the time players spend watching their characters die and unable to control them then what do Gale, Reckless Haste, Frustration, Horns Of The Ox, Exhausting Assault, Shadow Shroud, Shroud of Silence, Beguiling Haze, Broad Head Arrow, Entangling Asp, Weapon of Shadow, Blind was Mingson, Ebon Dust Aura and Shield of Deflection all have in common?

There are other such skills, but one or two of these alone can end a 4v4 match before it even begins, unlike a hammer warrior or r/w with a hammer which is pretty obvious.

Anyway, back to monking. I'm still trying to monk through Frustration, shame and Diversion all at the same time as dodging an assassin's SP/exhausting/moebius spike. I suppose I'm asking too much and need to conclude that one of my teammates needs to be able to kill the assassin or mesmer outright instead of stomping the monk. A shock axe would solve all three problems by itself if the user has any sense of what order to attack (stop sin spike, pressure mesmer, stop sin spike, spike monk).

Symbol · Sep 07, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

I play shock axe in RA occasionally, and it's honestly a losing proposition on average. Yeah, if I have a competent monk with a non-retarded build, I can use the build effectively (know who to pressure, know when to lineback) and get an easy glad, but those situations are far and few between.

Warriors in RA are a recipe for frustration in general. Too many retards who train the warrior the whole match making using frenzy iffy. Too much melee hate making building adren a chore.

For melee in RA, templates with high frontloaded damage (like sins) are more effective.

As for monking, I don't monk but probably the most effective monk template in RA is the SoR bonder, because it exploits standard RA behavior. Namely:

1) Stomp the monk, but with minimal disruption, so the monk gets infini energy from balth's aura to spam SoR and guardian.

2) C-space and target the nearest guy the whole match, meaning that bonds soak up all the damage.

The build probably won't get you as many glad points as an active prot, because eventually you'll run into a competent team with the right tools to take you out, but against the average RA teams it's a wipe every time.

Servant of Kali · Sep 07, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Hey, I didnt say they were bad against pressure, just that they arent as good as monks.

I put Rt healers between heal monks and prot monks. They are much better than pure heal monks, but worse than prot monks. Still, in RA, they are better than most builds because you need some kind of decent healer.

Symbol · Sep 07, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Um...wtf? Can someone tell me how my post got appended to Scrimbul's?

tunabreath · Sep 07, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

While certain kinds of monks today are perfectly capable of self-preservation, none of the modern viable templates can even come close to the old boonprots ability in that category. Booned RoF was (is) bigger, faster, and more readily available than any other self healing option that monks have. 90% of RA teams back in the day couldnt even break through that, regardless of the other 6 skills on the monk's bar, so good boonprot monks could pretty much carry their team to as many victories as the desired, almost regardless of how crappy the rest of their team was.

However, now that Boonprot is weak(er), and different templates have become the standard. These new designs (specifically ZB) are much more efficient (boon prot's weakness) but are less sturdy, prone to giving up deaths before they are out of energy, and are in general more difficult to use. Also, offensive potential has continuously ramped up, such that against certain kinds of teams it is simply unrealistic for a monk to expect himself to last forever - just as long as possible, and hope that's enough time for his team to get the job done. Because of this, even great monks will often lose in RA due to the shortcomings of their teammates.

not to forget CoP was on a shorter recharge (as was dboon?), and monks had access to better emanagement through prenerf inspiration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Hey, I didnt say they were bad against pressure, just that they arent as good as monks. They have worse condi removal, no hex removal, and most of their best skills are prohibatively limited by cast time, recharge, or energy cost. It'll sometimes work in RA, sure, but better than a monk? I think not.

not sure i agree ritualists have worse condi removal though... mend body and soul is pretty awesome with 2 spirits up.

moko · Sep 07, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Um...wtf? Can someone tell me how my post got appended to Scrimbul's?

LOL, sorry, was tired and messed up names. :/ gonna fix it now, lol.

gonna remove these 2 once you get the message.

Holz · Sep 07, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Meh, I was monking again today and I raged out of Guild Wars. Just too many builds that steamroll right through you. Unless your team has a good combination of damage/pressure and maybe a good mesmer that can shut things down properly, it's not fun to monk. If you think 'you're a bad monk' you don't know what you're talking about, really... Try going out there and get rolled by sins and thumpers that either daze or knock you down (also Guardian = 1 sec cast, interrupt FTL), ZB is too slow and the recharge also doesn't give the opportunity to double heal a squishy getting attacked. Most melee/damage builds can outdamage a single ZB in a short period of time..

moko · Sep 07, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

try using Natural Stride at 8 spec sometimes; it really makes a difference when you can run and block like a madman -- just pay attention the hex and enchant condition.

R A N D O M · Sep 07, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

dont know if this was mentioned yet, but when i run the SoR bonder in RA i like to use shield of absorption, as all the monk stomping just adds up on the damage reduction (ending up with getting hit by 6 blades of steel doin 0 damage).

Vazze · Sep 07, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holz

Meh, I was monking again today and I raged out of Guild Wars. Just too many builds that steamroll right through you. Unless your team has a good combination of damage/pressure and maybe a good mesmer that can shut things down properly, it's not fun to monk. If you think 'you're a bad monk' you don't know what you're talking about, really... Try going out there and get rolled by sins and thumpers that either daze or knock you down (also Guardian = 1 sec cast, interrupt FTL), ZB is too slow and the recharge also doesn't give the opportunity to double heal a squishy getting attacked. Most melee/damage builds can outdamage a single ZB in a short period of time..

It seems it is time for you to switch to your curse necro and teach them melee a lesson.

LifesRestorer · Sep 07, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Build Name: ZB Shield Basher.
Template Code: OwET8YYWz5SPT20aRBSNBvsWAA
Attributes
12+1+1 Prot
9+1 Divine
9 Tactics

The Skills
ZB
RoF
Dismiss Condition
Spirit Bond
Guardian
Holy Veil
Disciplined Stance
Shield Bash

Equipment
Tactics shield with +10AL against each type of damage
Survivor insignias on all body pieces
Minor prot, prot headpiece
Minor Divine favor, rest vitae

Weapon Sets

Set 1: +5e weapon 20% enchants, Shield. (Standard set, shield changes depending on what you fight. default is piercing against sins)
Set 2: +5e weapon 20% enchants, Prot focus HSR 20% +30hp. (High Set, used to cast ZB when you shouldnt have the energy ONLY FOR TARGETS BELOW 50%. Swap back immediately after ZB is cast.)
Set 3: +5e weapon 20% enchants, 15/-1 +30hp focus. (Emergency set, i rarely use it but its on my bar anyway. just incase you screw up using the high set in the wrong way)
Set 4: 15% -5e wand, Shield. (Low set. used when fighting ether phantom/drain delusions mesmers, switching up to standard set to heal before swapping down again. Can also be used to wand if you want. not advised.)

Notes on how to use each skill

ZB is used as the main heal. try to only use with the condition of the skill

RoF is rarely used. it is mostly a followup to Spirit bond to an assassin attack on a fellow player. This skill gives mobility and healing power while dazed

Dismiss Condition is the small heal. used to heal if the target has an enchantment such as an attunement or guardian, sometimes as a followup to Spirit Bond to remove deep wound from warrior or dervish attacks

Guardian is used often on whoever is getting hit the most. this should be your first line of defense when you see health bars going down from physical pressure

Holy Veil has the upmost importance. Preveil yourself before the battle and what you think is your best offensive physical character. If there are no mesmers, remove the veil on yourself. If there are no necromancers, remove the veil on the physical character.

Disciplined Stance is used to fend off melee characters hitting you. it should be chained with Guardian. In the event of being dazed, use disciplined stance while casting dismiss condition. if you are interrupted anyway, do your best to keep disciplined stance up while using RoF as a primary heal until the daze wears off. This can be used in the same way as shield bash if shield bash is recharging.

Shield bash is used to fend off assassins that port in and do combo's on you. It also works well against dervishes and can be used well against warriors if you can time how many times they hit you before their elite attack skill is charged.

Build Comments

Strong Against: Any type of melee character.
Weak Against: Signet of broken shock assassins.

Have fun monking,
-Lifes

Catrion-Leyt · Sep 08, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

First post.

This build works pretty well for me. Conjured it up this week and it has gotten me four gladiator points so far.

A/Rt
Dagger Mastery: 12+1+3
Shadow Arts: 8
Critical Strikes: 8
Communing: 7

Skills:
1.) Brutal Weapon: Weapon Spell. Give target ally a Brutal Weapon for 29 seconds. The bearer's weapon strikes for +10 damage as long as the bearer is under no Enchantments.
2.) Mirrored Stance: Hex Spell. For 23 seconds, whenever target foe enters a Stance, you enter the same Stance.
3.) Black Mantis Thrust: Lead Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +21 damage. If target for is suffering from a Hex, that foe is Crippled fro 16 seconds.
4.) Jungle Strike: Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +26 damage. If it hits a foe that was Crippled, it does +33 damage.
5.) Trampling Ox: Dual Attack. Must follow an Off-Hand Attack. If it hits, you deal +42 damage. If it hits a Crippled foe, that foe is knocked down.
6.) Falling Spider: Off-Hand Attack. Must strike a knock-downed foe. If it hits, you deal +36 damage and target foe is Poisoned for 21 seconds.
7.) Shadow Refuge: Enchantment Spell. For 4 seconds, you gain 8 Health regeneration. When Shadow Refuge ends, you gain 52 Health if you are attacking.
8.) Resurrection Signet: Signet. Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. This Signet only recharges when you gain a morale boost.

Equipment:
Radiant armor
Bladed Mask with Superior Dagger Mastery rune
Attunement runes on everything else
Shocking(<-optional)PvP Daggers of Fortitude with "I have the power!" inscription

It's pretty simple, really. Select a target. Try to get the weakest one. Cast Brutal Weapon before you charge in. (don't be an idiot and charge first, it's suicide) Cast Mirrored Stance on your target. (this doesn't serve a real purpose, it's just so Black Mantis Thrust works, although it can work in rare cases) Now is the part anyone can do. Use your chain of attacks; Black Mantis Thrust, Jungle Strike, Trampling Ox, and Falling Spider. It's not guaranteed that your target will die, especially if there's a healer, but you get them very close and can easily finish them off with your daggers. Or if your team is also targeting this person, let them finish the target off.

There's a huge chance you'll be targeted first by the other team because they see you as a "weak sin." Since you are a "weak sin" you'll probably take one hell of a beating. But, you can take one of them out quickly and, if you die too, make the odds even again. Unless you have a noob team, you'll get a resurrection fast, so be prepared to get back in the fight. Hope it works as well for you guys as it does for me.

wuzzman · Sep 08, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

if it takes your daggers to finish off your target....you have a bad assassin spike...