Curse

zosek · Aug 16, 2012, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Hey,

let me first say that I've never been into pvp so I really dont know how the situation was 7 years ago, but I'm really "sad" with people in RA.
I know it's RA, but 2,3 years ago it was not that bad.
This month (with jack flux) i have made my own assassin build (by my own i mean it's not on wiki) and surprisingly it works, i can solo monk with no problem because all think that sin should have KD and the pop balanced stance, but i dont have it (well, it's not in main chain).
But here is the catch. People (mostly healers) all say that build is for no brainers. If i take build from pvx, it's no brainer. Any build i make/take, people say it's nobrainer.
It's impossible to play in such environment. This is a game and people think that i should use build that makes me go to overload, oh hell no.
I thought that GW comunity was good, but it seems that it just goes down. Maybe the problems are the newcomers that they think that they are just going to solo everything. IDK.

I kinda lost the track of why i'm writing this. I don't really know what is the point of this thread. I guess i just wanted to express my feelings

Winner · Aug 16, 2012, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Play what you want, and have fun.
BUT! do not have completely useless build, remember you're not alone in the game, you have another 3 teammates. You shouldn't ruin their fun.

akelarumi · Aug 16, 2012, 12:54 PM // 12:54

The majority of the gw community is good. unfortunally in PvP the ragers and anti-social people have scared away the good ones. The worse format is in my opinion Random Arena. I only play RA if I have the sadistic feeling to be raged at for no good reason.

@Winner again you prove the above point.

Spiritz · Aug 16, 2012, 01:14 PM // 13:14

i think the no brainer refers to a build that a monkey would be able to use - eg the 1,2 ... button mashing builds.
I dont pvp but i know from others pvp is at times , you either need to use meta builds or get abuse from your team for running a different build.
Even sader is where a non meta build works and still your team cries if you wont switch to meta.

Jet · Aug 16, 2012, 01:17 PM // 13:17

well you need to be realistic about it. Winning a few matches in RA doesn't make your build effective. There is a reason why most assassins have KD and its usually in the first or second activation of skills. If you don't have KD in the main chain your going to allow the monk to flee and use guardian or use balance stance. That first KD is sometimes all you need to drop a monk who is off guard because it gives you an opportunity to unleash your chain and he can't do anything. Part of PvP is knowing what's happening on the battlefield and anticipating your opponents move. By anticipating your opponents monk you can drop him quite easily.

When you say you can drop monks easily, you sound like one of those players who likes to camp monk and don't know how to switch. Hopefully your not one of these players. If you drop monks easily and people say it's a no brainer bar I can only guess your dazing him and camping him.

imo, if you don't have a KD skill in the first or second activation of your chain skills and an interrupt that follows your combo attack you won't be "able" to solo a monk most of the time. That is the reason why most assassin have KD. As an assassin you catch your opponent offguard and kill fast, if your not your opponents are either better than you or your not playing it right.

The reason why people bring balance stance is because of the earth eles that plague RA. How can you unleash your chain combo if your constantly knocked down and there is no guarantee you'll get a monk?

I'm just giving you an idea from a different perspective. In the end it doesn't matter. If you win your teammates will be quiet. If you lose they'll complain. If they don't like your bar they can leave after the match.

zosek · Aug 16, 2012, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I dont have a KD in my main chain because monks nowadays just dont run away, so i dont really need it. In other case i have it as a reserve and rez signet interupter.
And no, i dont camp monks and dont have daze. I usually go for mesmers if my team has a monk because i know how pesky can they be ( i to play monk).
I just used monks for comparisson because usually when you drop their monk whole team goes down.
Build is not based on few matches as someone said above. I've been playing it for the whole month for 3h/day. I'm not just a random guy, i know what i'm doing.
It has rather fast first half of the chain recharge and a little longer second half, but usually that is not a problem.

KotCR · Aug 16, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Just because an Assassin doesn't have knockdown doesn't make him useless. Usefulness is subjective; Especially in RA over anywhere else.

Take two team compositions:
1 x Shockwave Ele
1 x IJaFW Paragon
1 x Meta Monk
1 x Assassin/Mo with Draw Conditions, Mending Touch and Assassin's Remedy.

I think we can all agree in that situation the Assassin is pretty much unneccessary and will probably get alot flaming from the other players (along with the Paragon who will probably be flamed just for being a Paragon lol). It would have been better in this case if he'd brought extra damage or shutdown (knockdowns are a form of shutdown for those who won't know, BTW, I don't mean load up on Mesmer spells).

However, take the second team composition.

1 x Boring PvX Assassin
1 x Shock Axe Warrior
1 x Devastating Hammer Warrior
1 x Ass/Mo with Draw Conditions, Mending Touch & Assassin's Remedy.

The same Assassin that was the least useful team member before, just became the most useful member of the team, despite using an unconventional and non-optimal build. The other three guys can all take out a Monk; Therefore each of them is less important - they aren't going to be what holds the team together. However without the unconventional Assassin, the team would be incredibly vulnerable to blind and condition spam; With him about it isn't the case. If he had just been another conventional Assassin then he too would have been a waste of space for that team.

And that's the thing you always have to remember with RA. What's useful and what isn't is always subjective. That's why anything goes in RA, and why people should really think before telling somebody that they are useless, because in RA almost everything has potential to be useful to some team composition, and there's many cases where the Meta builds become useless (like a second Meta Monk, notice how many players auto-resign when that happens?) so they should absolutely never ever be followed as gospel in RA.

Relyk · Aug 16, 2012, 05:05 PM // 17:05

That assassin is still useless KotCR.

Missing HB · Aug 16, 2012, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

The majority of the gw community is good. unfortunally in PvP the ragers and anti-social people have scared away the good ones. The worse format is in my opinion Random Arena. I only play RA if I have the sadistic feeling to be raged at for no good reason.

@Winner again you prove the above point.

Exactly.. Problem is that you can't even debate with those kind of players, you're getting ignored 99% of the time whatever you're writing..

Like i said in an other thread, the problem is the diference between players that wanna play for fun and players that wanna play for the reward only..

Coast · Aug 16, 2012, 05:19 PM // 17:19

play whatever u want, I pwned people like a boss with non meta builds. (fluxed shadowprison with a lot of variants, they all were quite good, but after all i'm coast[ i know what to do]/ beguiling gaze)

urania · Aug 16, 2012, 05:27 PM // 17:27

At OP, don't play a sin at all.

KotCR · Aug 16, 2012, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

That assassin is still useless KotCR.

If you think that; In that team set-up...then chances are you aren't that good at Guild Wars else you'd know what a team needs to survive in RA. And conditional removal is a biggy; Doesn't matter where it comes from, so long as it's there and consistant. Believe it or not; Assassin actually can have the energy for something like that; Assassin energy regen is same as a Monk's + more from critical strikes. Of course I shouldn't have to tell you that...

Now if you mean a Monk would be more useful to that team than an Assassin with those skills, sure. But useless suggests that a build can't do anything. Obviously, that build could do that; Therefore it isn't useless - it's just not optimal. Try and learn the difference.

Useless suggests that the player running that build would be doing nothing at all in that match; Which is entirely untrue; and does nothing but display your own blindly stubborn elitism.

zachattack82 · Aug 16, 2012, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Yeah man, play what you want. The game is here for fun and if anyone in RA wants to be a douche, then the hell with them. I know it's easier said than done, because I gave up PvP because of people like that. I used to love PvPing...but after many negative run-ins with the elitist mutants, I gave up. Good luck to you and I hope you have had some positive experiences.

*lemming* · Aug 16, 2012, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Almost all of the people you meet in RA aren't worth listening to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachattack82

elitist mutants

lol

zosek · Aug 16, 2012, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

At OP, don't play a sin at all.

Because?
Because they suck? because no1 plays them? People like you are just what i'm talking about.

doomfodder · Aug 16, 2012, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

Play what you want, and have fun.
BUT! do not have completely useless build, remember you're not alone in the game, you have another 3 teammates. You shouldn't ruin their fun.

COMPLETELY AGREE with WINNER above! Just remember, it's a game & you can't MAKE people play with you. People in RA will rage quit for all kinds of reasons.

Non-wiki builds work (even a sin with only mes skills - Illusion Magic Degen & rupts) since the fast cast benefit of mesmers is not significant for 1/4 sec & 1 sec casts in RA format anyway.

Point is... have fun & just shake it off when UR team mates rage or quit... It happens at least 1 in every 10 'first round' matches anyway

Winner · Aug 17, 2012, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Like i said in an other thread, the problem is the diference between players that wanna play for fun and players that wanna play for the reward only..

No. Having fun is good and you should always play for fun. But you shouldn't ruin it for others. It might be just a game but real people are playing it. Who wants to see triple echo mending mesmer, firestorm warrior or an assassin in team. No one, because they ruin their fun.
Would you just go round the street and punch people just because you think it's fun? I'm sure you wouldn't.
Would you insult and harass people in game because it's fun (it's called trolling). No.
Would you abandon pikachu just because he doesn't want to get in pokeball? Of course not.

With RA and anything else in life it's the same. It is good to have fun as long as it doesn't harm others in any way.

Zaph · Aug 17, 2012, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

Would you abandon pikachu just because he doesn't want to get in pokeball?..

I don't get it how abandoning pikachu would hurt anybody....

KotCR · Aug 17, 2012, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

No. Having fun is good and you should always play for fun. But you shouldn't ruin it for others. It might be just a game but real people are playing it. Who wants to see triple echo mending mesmer, firestorm warrior or an assassin in team. No one, because they ruin their fun.

I can't 100% agree with this because, by that logic, nobody should ever play a healer, a quarter knock-locking character, or a blind spammer in RA because that would ruin the fun for the other team. Why shouldn't the other team be entitled to just as much fun as your team?

No. The only time a build or player becomes unacceptable in RA is if;

1: It's/They're doing absolutely nothing (this is different from not being optimal!). This includes players with a good build but who refuse to play and/or die deliberately (whether they resigned or not), even if the rest of the team want to play, just because you didn't like their team composition; If your team scores a kill without you helping them in anyway, you just became a leecher (as you just gained Balthazar Faction without playing). That's against the rules. Any of you that have done this should be ashamed of yourself; Because you are far worse than the people you criticise, as what you are doing is against the game rules, what they're doing isn't.

2: It's a build purely for grieving.
Examples of purely grieving builds are the following:
Old Earth Eles purely with defensive skills - Armor of Earth, Stoneflesh Aura, Obsidian Flesh; Nothing offensive beyond Stone Daggers; No support skills they can cast on other allies; No rez. - Especially before they added the armour-stacking cap and a time limit to Random Arena matches.
Triple Echo Mending: Is an example because their is no point to echo'ing Mending whatsoever, as it's a maintained Enchantment and doesn't stack with itself when sourced from the same character; Being a Mesmer with Arcane Echo, Echo, and Mending is perfectly acceptable; But using just those skills on your bar and/or the echo skills on nothing but Mending isn't.
Warrior who zones in wearing no armour: This doesn't need explaining.
Ranger with nothing but self-survival skills: Adds nothing to the team; Survives pointlessly. Similiar to the old Earth Ele. This type of build becomes acceptable however if; He has support skills that he will also use on allies, and if he has a Hard Rez (gives his team a chance to win through a battle of attrition in some cases). Not that I'd want that type of player/build on my team, but it's acceptable because the player would still be aiding the team in someway.

Of course all this stuff was generally understood and practiced in RA years ago; Where it was a fun and acceptable place to run pretty much any build whatsoever; People understood that Random Arena meant just that; That you didn't know what you were getting and self-sufficient builds were just as useful as ones specialised for a particular team role (they still are; by the way).

Unfortunetly, Team Arena was removed and scrubs who only liked to play with easy typical team-compositions, who weren't good enough at the game to play in the more competitive Heroes Ascent/Guild vs. Guild, and didn't understand the game and build design well enough to play in Codex Arena, trickled down into Random Arena instead.

Likewise, the arrogant and elitist Heroes Ascent player scene destroyed their own format with that very same elitism by not letting new blood in and scaring new players off with their arrogance, until there was noone left to play Heroes Ascent, killing off the format. These players then trickled down into Random Arena too.

And the presence of these two player groups in Random Arena is destroying that format now aswell, in the same way they destroyed their own formats years ago. Unfortunetly, this is why there is this overwhelming sense of negativity now burdening and slowly killing what was once the free and fun Random Arenas. But these people just don't learn from their own mistakes...

Missing HB · Aug 17, 2012, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

No. Having fun is good and you should always play for fun. But you shouldn't ruin it for others. It might be just a game but real people are playing it. Who wants to see triple echo mending mesmer, firestorm warrior or an assassin in team. No one, because they ruin their fun.
Would you just go round the street and punch people just because you think it's fun? I'm sure you wouldn't.
Would you insult and harass people in game because it's fun (it's called trolling). No.
Would you abandon pikachu just because he doesn't want to get in pokeball? Of course not.

With RA and anything else in life it's the same. It is good to have fun as long as it doesn't harm others in any way.

Ruining the fun is subjective also.. You know, if i'm running frenzy sin and still doing my job efficiently, although the monk keeps pinging when i'm using frenzy, i won't care at all..
The problem, and i got the proof in hero battles, is that players aren't trying and just reading what wiki is saying, and this concerns any game... Players get stucked somewhere, they go on internet and the game is finished after 3 hours..

I did create and run some build that was never played before, i was told " stupid abuser" , " lol noob build" and then two months later when i was on B for some time, people started copying it, and it changed to " stupid lamer " or , a funny one, " noob build copyer " ..
Let's face it, people aren't trying, they just believe in what they see is working, that's all.. It's the same for codex arena in fact.. people are just copying the meta and that's it..

It's the same with HA today, most players have 0 tactics, joke builds( but they believe it's good coz it can win 1v1 halls as blue), and do not care..