Curse

Premium Unleaded · May 04, 2012, 05:02 AM // 05:02

But that's the problem, it is part of the game.
You may not like it, but until the pisspoor AI is fixed it'll always be a major contributing factor, just like how the number of bots/humans on your side determines who wins in JQ.

sn0rton · May 04, 2012, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

But that's the problem, it is part of the game.
You may not like it, but until the pisspoor AI is fixed it'll always be a major contributing factor, just like how the number of bots/humans on your side determines who wins in JQ.

Oh, I completely agree with that. My point was that they're using it as an excuse.

It's just a terrible excuse.

Krill · May 05, 2012, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sn0rton

Imbalanced map design favouring the kurzicks + rewarding cowardly defensive tactics. That's all FA is.

Here's hoping the maps in GW2 are mirrored.

EDIT: What's really funny is the kurzicks acting like "it's just part of the game" and calling it a valid tactic.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was me defending it...to me it's mildly amusing to turtle tank while most of the idiot mesmers, who can kill you in 5 seconds run right by, while the players that can't will try for a few minutes then give up.

The wait on the Luxon side can sometimes be over 5 minutes. The Kurzick wait is rarely over 1 minute. Nobody plays AB, and RA is even more trashy than FA. That's really what it boils down to.

sn0rton · May 07, 2012, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Mildly curious to know which genius at ANet thought it was a good idea to let kurzick rangers be able to just snipe amber mine NPCs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Mhh, you'd likely call them stupid if they didn't take advantage of the AI

No, but I can understand why you'd think that. I don't think they should be punished for exploiting bad AI/map design/whatever, but they can at least save some face by owning up to it.

Premium Unleaded · May 07, 2012, 03:52 AM // 03:52

There's not really anything to own up to though. The win condition for blue is simply stalling for time, one way or another. Whether by delaying turtles, preventing red players from reaching the inner base, etc. doesn't matter as long as Gunther has 1 or more hp remaining when that progress bar fills.

If anything, all your grievances are solely down the poorly implemented asymmetric format and the anger at AI exploiting is almost completely unjustified.
Just consider if there wasn't a timer and blue needed to feed amber to move the bar. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't moan about the AI in this case.

sn0rton · May 07, 2012, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

There's not really anything to own up to though. The win condition for blue is simply stalling for time, one way or another. Whether by delaying turtles, preventing red players from reaching the inner base, etc. doesn't matter as long as Gunther has 1 or more hp remaining when that progress bar fills.

If anything, all your grievances are solely down the poorly implemented asymmetric format and the anger at AI exploiting is almost completely unjustified.
Just consider if there wasn't a timer and blue needed to feed amber to move the bar. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't moan about the AI in this case.

I'm new to FA, so I don't know too much about this AI exploiting and will try read up on it more after the double faction event ends. If there's AI exploiting on the luxon side, I don't support it. (I don't even know if I've seen AI exploiting.)

Yes, I have an issue with the poor map design and whatever the AI exploits may be, and that falls on ANet, who won't do anything about it.

But, players that choose to exploit AI or take advantage of completely bullshit design should be called out on it. Again, I'm not saying they should punished by being suspended or something, because ANet is the source of the problem. But luxons have to work their asses off to get anything done, while kurzicks just need to choose to exploit bad design to cause major problems.

Ganks · May 07, 2012, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sn0rton

Mildly curious to know which genius at ANet thought it was a good idea to let kurzick rangers be able to just snipe amber mine NPCs.

mesmers on lux can chaos storm them and then quickly wastrels because they'll move out immediately. When they come back, ausp and empathy. If they attack thru it they are stupid and deserve to die. Once empathy runs out then chaos and wastrels again. By that time the rest of your guys should be thru first gate.

Luxons don't need healers really. What luxons need is mesmers and rangers to put pressure on the healers while everyone else SPIKES on gunther and has AoE to take the gates.

I find that usually when Luxon loses no one is calling targets and most people are running thru gates alone.

Another thing; You should be able to take gates & mines by yourself.
If someone is already trying to take mines back then don't help them unless they are epic failing at it.

As for Kurzicks, for them to win they just need to recognize priority targets and keep the pressure off their healers if they have any. It's possible to keep Luxon out of Green even without healers if everyone is good at spiking and targeting.

That's pretty much what it comes down to.
It's not rocket science.

sn0rton · May 07, 2012, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganks

mesmers on lux can chaos storm them and then quickly wastrels because they'll move out immediately. When they come back, ausp and empathy. If they attack thru it they are stupid and deserve to die. Once empathy runs out then chaos and wastrels again. By that time the rest of your guys should be thru first gate.

Luxons don't need healers really. What luxons need is mesmers and rangers to put pressure on the healers while everyone else SPIKES on gunther and has AoE to take the gates.

I find that usually when Luxon loses no one is calling targets and most people are running thru gates alone.

Another thing; You should be able to take gates & mines by yourself.
If someone is already trying to take mines back then don't help them unless they are epic failing at it.

As for Kurzicks, for them to win they just need to recognize priority targets and keep the pressure off their healers if they have any. It's possible to keep Luxon out of Green even without healers if everyone is good at spiking and targeting.

That's pretty much what it comes down to.
It's not rocket science.

My point is that there's essentially no risk for the ranger snipers. They don't have to confront the NPCs to kill them. Only a luxon caster player can try defending (which results in them just backing off for a second to heal and then resuming), unless you want to spend time taking the long way up the stairs to engage them when you should probably be pushing forward with your team.

I agree with most of what you said, but the teams are random (or at least they should be, I know some people sync), so the whole idea of builds can fall apart pretty easily.

Ganks · May 13, 2012, 09:45 PM // 21:45

You shouldn't have to run up the stairs to get the ranger.

Zakarr · May 13, 2012, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Kurzicks have higher chance to win when there is lots of bad players in both sides. That is because kurzick winning condition is a timer. Kurzicks also have simpler tactics for winning. Fallen kurzick players can be back faster.

Luxon has chance to win more quickly. It requires either bad enough kurzick team against average luxon team or good luxon team against average kurzick team. If both sides have good enough team, significantly faster winning is very unlikely.

Basically luxon need less bad players than kurzick to win. Even less, if you want faster reward than kurzicks.

Kurzicks can still freeze luxon warriors, if their turtle is dead. New turtle squad spawning can be denied, if no one kills those passive luxon warriors.

sn0rton · May 14, 2012, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Don't know if it's true, but a player just told me kurzick get 4k faction for winning. If it is, that's hilarious.

Premium Unleaded · May 14, 2012, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Yup. The imperial faction breakdown is

K: % complete * 30
L: 500 per broken gate (so max 2500)
Win bonus is a flat +1000 points

So added to the asymmetric win conditions is that lux get less for an argubly harder task.

sn0rton · May 14, 2012, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

Kurzicks have higher chance to win when there is lots of bad players in both sides. That is because kurzick winning condition is a timer. Kurzicks also have simpler tactics for winning. Fallen kurzick players can be back faster.

Luxon has chance to win more quickly. It requires either bad enough kurzick team against average luxon team or good luxon team against average kurzick team. If both sides have good enough team, significantly faster winning is very unlikely.

Basically luxon need less bad players than kurzick to win. Even less, if you want faster reward than kurzicks.

Kurzicks can still freeze luxon warriors, if their turtle is dead. New turtle squad spawning can be denied, if no one kills those passive luxon warriors.

Funny thing...

1) My best PvP streak was 26 wins with a four-elementalist team in Ascalon Arena.

2) My fastest FA win was with a seven-elementalist team.

Mercury Angel · May 15, 2012, 07:49 AM // 07:49

If you had 7 defensive characters, why did you even bother going for the amber when you could have run a 3/4 gate split and just kept the outer gates sealed the whole round? (Necro could just dance around, I guess.) At that level, you can afford to have 2 characters focusing on a single NPC, and the remaining defenders to focus on keeping the first two up. When one goes down or needs to fall back, you just tag in seamlessly. It requires a lot less coordination than you might think.

Based on your experience in green, you clearly had the capacity to do that from the beginning, and it's much easier when you're immune to melee and line-of-sight skills from the gate, and the turtle bombardment is split.

sn0rton · May 16, 2012, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

If you had 7 defensive characters, why did you even bother going for the amber when you could have run a 3/4 gate split and just kept the outer gates sealed the whole round? (Necro could just dance around, I guess.) At that level, you can afford to have 2 characters focusing on a single NPC, and the remaining defenders to focus on keeping the first two up. When one goes down or needs to fall back, you just tag in seamlessly. It requires a lot less coordination than you might think.

Based on your experience in green, you clearly had the capacity to do that from the beginning, and it's much easier when you're immune to melee and line-of-sight skills from the gate, and the turtle bombardment is split.

I should've specified that my team was on the luxon side... I've been railing against the kurzicks in this thread that I assumed it was known I'm luxon. My bad.

Nay of the Ether · Aug 09, 2012, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I actually had to read all the posts because I couldn't stop lmao. I play both sides regularly, usually lux more than kurz, and those people that are constantly whining about losing on lux cause FA is "unbalanced in favor of cowardly defensive tactics and thus in favor of Kurz" are morons. While yes sometimes kurz wins with excessive heals and good defense, compare it in a single day to luxon win and with the quality of teams on both sides too. Luxon can run trash, heck half the team can leave, and they can still win. Why you think I play lux more than kurz? Why is lux side packed 50% more than kurz side except on double weekends? C'mon, look up from spamming WW long enough to actually see what's going on and you might see what Im talking about.

Winner · Aug 09, 2012, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nay of the Ether

C'mon, look up from spamming WW long enough to actually see what's going on and you might see what Im talking about.

No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
You're saying that FA is balanced and both sides get equal number of wins? Well, that might be true in a way, depending which side the bots are currently on.

Nay of the Ether · Aug 09, 2012, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

Kurzicks can still freeze luxon warriors, if their turtle is dead. New turtle squad spawning can be denied, if no one kills those passive luxon warriors.

No longer true, while the players themselves can stall for a small amount of time, the warriors are now programmed to suicide run to whoever they can including any available npc and as far as they need to go to get killed. If they get blocked by a gate, they just stand there and get killed pretty quickly by the gate npc's.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
You're saying that FA is balanced and both sides get equal number of wins? Well, that might be true in a way, depending which side the bots are currently on.

I haven't seen bots in FA in quite a while, leechers aplenty and leavers, bots not so much. You're in the wrong comp mission. JQ is bot headquarters. And no I'm saying that FA is balanced in the fact that it takes less effort for the luxon to win with minor tactics but the kurz get higher reward for winning. You can win in FA within a matter of minutes on lux if you got a good team, but you have to wait the duration to win it on kurz. In the end it balances out, tradeoff for easier scoring for lower rewards and vice-versa. So the people QQing constantly about one side winning more than the other, especially the ones about lux side being soooo epically hard, really don't know how to play there. And did I mention I play lux nearly all day? So Im not talking up kurz, just bashing the crybabies lol.

akelarumi · Aug 09, 2012, 02:04 PM // 14:04

1: Defensive kurzick team can easily wins a match... Duuh. I think thats the whole point of the format. Kurzicks defend their master architect while luxons try to kill them. While the kurzicks have some offensive objectives, the main goal is to stop the luxons. Same goes the other way around. While the luxon's have some defensive objectives, their main task is to attack

2: Team composition is random. So imbalanced teams can happen.

3: Yes it is true that are some bugs favouring the kurzicks, but beside the fact that, like being pointed out, the kurzicks need longer time to win even when their team is a lot better then the luxon's, I think the main loosers are those that cry over a bug instead of looking at their own faulure. I am happy in FA when I have the feeling that I did everything I could to win even if it ended in defeat. The bugs are known so asking Anet to do their best they can to fix them is ok. Using it as an excuse to the fact that you fail at playing good is not.

Hate me if you want, but this is how I think bout it

sn0rton · Aug 12, 2012, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

1: Defensive kurzick team can easily wins a match... Duuh. I think thats the whole point of the format. Kurzicks defend their master architect while luxons try to kill them. While the kurzicks have some offensive objectives, the main goal is to stop the luxons. Same goes the other way around. While the luxon's have some defensive objectives, their main task is to attack

2: Team composition is random. So imbalanced teams can happen.

3: Yes it is true that are some bugs favouring the kurzicks, but beside the fact that, like being pointed out, the kurzicks need longer time to win even when their team is a lot better then the luxon's, I think the main loosers are those that cry over a bug instead of looking at their own faulure. I am happy in FA when I have the feeling that I did everything I could to win even if it ended in defeat. The bugs are known so asking Anet to do their best they can to fix them is ok. Using it as an excuse to the fact that you fail at playing good is not.

Hate me if you want, but this is how I think bout it

ANet isn't going to do shit about the problems in FA. If they cared, they would've done it long ago.