Curse

nuclear_herring · Apr 12, 2012, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I had a few spare minutes last night so I thought I'd give my monk an outing in FA - nothing special, just a cookie cutter Air of Enchantment Prot/Heal combo.

Now, I am a distinctly average monk at the best of times, and last night my pings were rubbish with occasional 3 sec+ spikes.

However, thats not really the point. I witnessed either the most amazing or frustrating round of FA ever, depending on how you look at it.

I joined on the Kurzick side and found myself in a team with 3 other monks, 4 rits...oh yes, and a necro. I remember making some comment to the team about hoping we had enough healing, and then the game began.

Because we lacked any real damage taking the purple mine was a real pain, and the outer purple gate was down before we took it. Running back I think a couple of us tried to support the inner gate NPCs but that fell quickly too.
Basically, we got swarmed and the Green gate fell when the bar was at maybe 33%.

Hmm, I thought. Game over. Both gatekeepers fell over almost immediately and then for the next 7-8 minutes we kept Gunther standing against everything red could throw at us. Both turtles and warriors plus 8 luxon players and they couldn't get him below 50% health. When the bar got to about 75% we started getting 'WTFs' and other raging in the all chat from the luxons but I don't think anybody left and eventually we got our victory.

We weren't particularly coordinated, as the speed the gates fell at shows, but lux couldn't outpaces our heals and prots. I died perhaps a dozen times, running down the hill and protting Gunther with no regard for my own safety.
If kurzick teams like this start showing up more often, what can Luxons do to overcome it?

Discuss.

superraptors · Apr 12, 2012, 10:29 PM // 22:29

soulbind + 2 turtles = win

Elnino · Apr 12, 2012, 10:59 PM // 22:59

FA is random. There is nothing that can be done. These things happen. You get teams with zero defense that crumble to the luxons before 33% aswell.

You shoulda seen a match I was in against 5 monks on the kurzick side and we still won because none of us ever died and we managed to overpower the healers.

nuclear_herring · Apr 12, 2012, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Possibly, but with a team of suicide protters on the kurzick side I'm not sure even soulbind would be enough. Well of the profane perhaps? There's no shortage of bodies

Lanier · Apr 12, 2012, 11:28 PM // 23:28

In general, I find that luxons win far more than kurzicks. I recently did a ton of FA on the luxon side to get keys for my ztitle, and I found that we tended to consistently win (like 75%ish if I had to guess). I'm not a good player or anything, so I know that it wasn't me causing this.

While FA is indeed random, the amount of monks on the kurzick side is a pretty good indicator of who's going to end up winning. If there aren't several monks, the lux will probably win. Thus, if you want to play kurzick and you want to win, go with a monk. One of the few games that I played as a kurz was particularly fun because we had 3 monks, a resto rit, and a ST rit (me). We just tanked inside the green gate till the time ran out

FallenAngel_ · Apr 13, 2012, 02:37 AM // 02:37

It isn't hard to counter a defensive/healing team in FA. If you do bring skills to counter it and they don't have any of those skills, then you'll probably win anyways.

Azazello · Apr 13, 2012, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Played a lot as both sides, and you're mostly right. It's winnable, if you get lucky with teams, but in general it's a lot easier to win as kurzick. You can do it with a prot and a pair of mesmers against most teams, with the rest just being warm bodies to soak up turtle fire. Recently I lost a few games though, a lot of kurzicks are bringing builds that are almost totally incapable of stopping turtles.

In the game you mentioned though, all they had to do was time their strips to land right before the turtles fired, and their nukes to land with the turtle shots. I'm assuming one or more of you were taking the portal out so that the turtles wouldn't hit gunther.

Lithril Ashwalker · Apr 13, 2012, 09:12 PM // 21:12

gate guarding by one monk shouldnt be possible to camp, a monk hiding behind the gates can avoid all dmg while staying out of enemy aggro which is blocked and prevented by the gate, an experienced monk or 2 can allow the kurzicks to win which is kind of an exploit, at least allow both teams to open the gate, kind of eliminating the gate campers

Relyk · Apr 13, 2012, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Bring Well of the Profane and have someone die next to gunther. That is the only way to win in those cases. Wastrel spam is extremely strong once well is up. If you bring Chaos Storm, it will drop gunther's energy to 0 and you can spam away. Your spamming will cover any other hexes and gunther and kill him extremely fast. There are other ways as well, such as Cacophony spike with well up after his Endure Pain drops.

Just bring Well of the Profane.

makosi · Apr 13, 2012, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

gate guarding by one monk shouldnt be possible to camp, a monk hiding behind the gates can avoid all dmg while staying out of enemy aggro which is blocked and prevented by the gate, an experienced monk or 2 can allow the kurzicks to win which is kind of an exploit, at least allow both teams to open the gate, kind of eliminating the gate campers

The healers/bonders aren't invulnerable whilst behind gates. They're in reach if you're up against the gate and if they're not, then they're not in reach of their NPC. Where more than one monk or rit is present it becomes much harder. For the Luxons, simply do not bring melees as there is little point due to the gates and the anti-melee measures.

What's absolutely moronic about the Kurzick side is the instantaneous respawn with full health and energy and no DP. You can slay those monks and rits 'til the cows come home but they're resurrected so fast that it's barely worthwhile.

Another tip for Luxons: If a gate is bonded and your group is unable to break it, go to the other side. Don't be stalled for long because the blue bar on screen is the timer. You've gotta slay Gunther before that goes down. There have been a few ocassions whereby arrogant bonders have spammed NPCs alive for the match's duration and neglected to notice that 6 people are in the green gate slaying gatekeepers. Even if these arrogant bonders do get back to preserve Gunther the gates are now breakable and even the turtles can solo through if they remain alive.

Elnino · Apr 14, 2012, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Once in the green, it is far more worthwhile to leave the monks alive and let them drain their energy away than to kill them and let them come back with a full bar. Applying just light pressure to force them to use skills on themselves is a good way to go.

A dervish can function pretty well on the luxon side. Pious restoration is your friend.

Also, multiple enchantment strips are the key to winning when the kurzick side has monks. Well of profane requires an ally that will actually participate in team tactics which can be a rarity in FA.

yitjuan · Apr 14, 2012, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Do you think it's more to do with the Flux?

CE Devilman · Apr 14, 2012, 02:12 PM // 14:12

EoE
Well of the Profane
Cacophony

non or 1-2 monks is a good team
to many monks just sux

Reverend Dr · Apr 15, 2012, 12:25 AM // 00:25

FA is about who glitches npc AI the most. Builds, team play, and skillful play all play second fiddle to teams that can reliably glitch turtles and/or gunther.

Krill · Apr 15, 2012, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I probably win 70-80% of the time playing from the Luxon side with a simple mind blast ele.

It becomes more difficult to win if the Kurzick side has 3+ monks, but the problem far more often is lack of offense, no turtle heals, effective stalling of the turtle groups, and general stupidity. In the scenario where they have too much healing all you can do really is try to break the green gate and at least get 2.5k faction, and kill players that move too far out for fun / faction.

I am of the opinion that the best strategy for Luxons is to methodically advance the turtle groups, killing NPCs and players along the way until you're ready to overwhelm the chamber. But most players are dumb as hell kamikazes that spend most of the round running from the rez shrines doing nothing.

superraptors · Apr 15, 2012, 09:34 AM // 09:34

basically when the 2 turtles clear center and meet up it should be game over for kurzicks.

doesn't matter if kurzicks has 3+ monks, as long as the turtles are shooting down gunther, all the damage should be killing their monks non-stop and eventually gunther will drop in a minute or 2.

the monks on kurzick side are far too stupid to heal themselves while gunther is being shot, once you can wipe 3+ of them at the same time then you have a 5 second window to take down gunther which should be easy.

Kunder · Apr 15, 2012, 02:39 PM // 14:39

How long has it been since the last "fort aspenwood is impossible for kurzicks" thread? Also, sample set of 1. Cmon, are you even trying?

DRGN · Apr 15, 2012, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

FA is about who glitches npc AI the most. Builds, team play, and skillful play all play second fiddle to teams that can reliably glitch turtles and/or gunther.

Run out of teleporter with earth shield
Use Natural Stride and run back and forth to screw up Luxon warriors while degening the turtle
Take like ~130 damage from siege attacks and lock turtles down even while healers camp them because the other luxons can't look at their radar

It's sad how many teams I've carried this way

Reverend Dr · Apr 17, 2012, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

Run out of teleporter with earth shield
Use Natural Stride and run back and forth to screw up Luxon warriors while degening the turtle
Take like ~130 damage from siege attacks and lock turtles down even while healers camp them because the other luxons can't look at their radar

It's sad how many teams I've carried this way

Also considering how difficult it is for luxons to be able to push to those locations combined with low respawn times and fast teleports from spawn to get right back where you need to be; it should be pretty obvious why glitching is far more important than build.

sn0rton · May 04, 2012, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Imbalanced map design favouring the kurzicks + rewarding cowardly defensive tactics. That's all FA is.

Here's hoping the maps in GW2 are mirrored.

EDIT: What's really funny is the kurzicks acting like "it's just part of the game" and calling it a valid tactic.