Curse

Calibur · Sep 05, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Zealot Fire overpowered????

Last time I checked, Zealot's Fire does fire damage and is affected by armor. I think the culprit here is ether renewal but eh, what do I know.

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Well they're either going to nerf one skill or the other. Or maybe even both. Zealot's Fire is already known to be nerfed, it's not going to be affected by shouts, therefore no more Karate Choppers.

It's probably impossible they will NOT nerf Ether Renewal.

Phades · Sep 05, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calibur

Zealot Fire overpowered????

Last time I checked, Zealot's Fire does fire damage and is affected by armor. I think the culprit here is ether renewal but eh, what do I know.

Compare zealots fire to any of the 5e 0 recharge spammables that do damage. None of them perform an additional effect. None of them are aoe. All of them are at least 1s in casting time. Zealots + any spammable monk skill nets some protection, condition removal, or healing and only take .25s to get off. When you add the cast with the after cast, monk skills beat out the others by .75 seconds and have the next spell aready enroute and taking effect before any other job begins casting a second time. That turns into nearly twice the damage output in the same time frame, while having all the other effects taking place and aoe damage. Then stack on top of it the best aoe in the game for damage and you end up with the most efficient method of dealing damage within spells.

The methods which monks deal damage is out of line. Ether renewal only highlights this. Nerfing ether renewal, would only cause a shift in how this style of attack occurs. There is still a problem with enchantment stacking that needs to be adressed as well.

Zeru · Sep 05, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

ZF is discussable. Frankly I don't think it's that bad.

The bigger culprit is crappy removal and ether renewal. The former is severely weak and the latter is the most overpowered skill in the game for incredibly obvious reasons.

ElderAtronach · Sep 05, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

We can also compare Balthazar's aura to every other 25 energy elementalist "nuke" and see how comparatively overpowered that is, too, in terms of damage, flexibility, aoe, armor ignoring... etc.

Nexx · Sep 05, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

I like Zealot Fire. It's a great alternative build for my warrior. I got tired of the axe-spike and hammer/as variety. It's not as mad uber like the other builds but it's a fun build to play. Sure, it gets own bad by strip enchantment but hey, it's fun! Isn't that the point of the game?

oops, just realized that I added something positive about zlot fire ON another class. I better add some hater-o-rade on the fire to redeem myself: EVIL SMITE BUILDS. GRRRR. FIX ETHER RENEWAL!!!

carry on.

thefox · Sep 05, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Last weekend our spiker team ate those smiters for breakfast, lunch, dinner and dessert as well in 9/10 cases. The only problem was relic map.
Let everything stay as is and let ppl enjoy something new instead of these evil spirit spammers.

Phades · Sep 05, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

ZF is discussable. Frankly I don't think it's that bad.

The bigger culprit is crappy removal and ether renewal. The former is severely weak and the latter is the most overpowered skill in the game for incredibly obvious reasons.

You have to consider a few things outside of the smite build with ether renewal. Consider a fire or water elementalist build, or for that matter any combination build using ether renewal and look at what it achieves. You end up spamming spells and wasting half of your build to deal less than half of what the smite setup will yeild, while having other draw backs such as exhaustion, long cast times, or life sacrifice as tradeoffs. This is in addition to not getting the bonus effects that come with the monk protection spells.

As far as ZF specifically, that would be similar to having fireball be 5e 1s 0 recast for 60 seconds with nearly twice the aoe size. You can look at any of the other AOE spells in any class and balthazar's beats them hands down in terms of damage due to flexability, armor penetration, and how often it is available. Even comparing it against one of the more scary aoe spells meteor shower, you are only looking at 3 slow impacts on a static meduim sized aoe, dealing around 300 damage against AL 60. While balthazars will net 200+ damage against any target, moves with the target, is not hindered by protective spirit, and is available 4 times as often with no exhaustion. Its not just those two skills though, most all of the smiting line spits in the face of the other classes, whose skills they mimic for longer or with less cost to activate and ignore armor levels.

Forboding Angel · Sep 05, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

My personal opinion is that if holy damage no longer ignored armor then smiting would be properly nerfed.

Charcoal Ann · Sep 05, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

hang on...
invinci monks can solo FoW? with all those mesmers and lingering curse chaps?
the present tense on that is because they were never really nerfed.
i have just about given up fighting against these solo builds. i just think that it is sad. sad and rather pathetic. computer games are to be played for fun and enjoyment, if you have something to show for spending 4 hours clearing FoW then all very well and good but you clear FoW because its fun.
This game is supposed to be about skill => farming builds must require skill

The 55 monk builds and smite builds required little skill. they were copied off of a recipe posted on forums, the users didn't even think them up themselves.
if you farm by thinking on your feet and using the right skills at the right time rather than doing something a bot could do without any difficulty then they cannot nerf you. it should be your skill that allows you to farm, not taking advantages of loopholes in skills.
Anet will close those loopholes.

Cobalt · Sep 05, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

There is no loop hole regarding skill in PVP never was, just ignorant players!

All you need is a Mesmer, but most players think they are useless, won't team with them. This mentality makes for very few Mesmers, so to find a Mesmer let alone a good Mesmer would be the only "loop hole".

cookiehoarder · Sep 05, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaic

One build will ALWAYS dominate. No matter what you nerf, there will always be a build that will dominate. They nerfed spirit spammers, everyone was happy for about a hour or two. Then smiters started to dominate, now everyone is complaining about them. You know what, nerf them, then you people will find something else to complain about.

A build gets nerfed leads to a differen't build dominating and it keeps going. You will always have somethign to complain about.

Smite is good damage but it isn't dominating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

My personal opinion is that if holy damage no longer ignored armor then smiting would be properly nerfed.

Can you please tell me why smite needs to be nerfed? If you can't counter smite then you need to go PvE. Sorry for sounding harsh, it's true.

Third Quarter · Sep 05, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Balanced or not, smiting ruins the competition simply because it's so boring. It's boring to play, and it's boring when it's all you ever run up against.

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but last Saturday, when the PvPX weekend had just started, Tombs was interesting and exciting and flat-out awesome because it was packed with a billion different teams who were all trying different ideas and strategies. Now that The One True Smiter has been perfected, build analysis has basically been reduced to counting the E/Mos.

Having that quality of competition would be an enormous benefit to everyone, but in order for that to happen, the E/Mo smiter is probably going to have to be smacked around a bit with the nerf bat. (accomplishing this is certainly a delicate matter, but that is a discussion all its own)

Zeru · Sep 05, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Smite is good damage but it isn't dominating.

Can you please tell me why smite needs to be nerfed? If you can't counter smite then you need to go PvE. Sorry for sounding harsh, it's true.

Smiting skills don't need to be nerfed Ether Renewal does.

If you don't think Ether Renewal is so strong just stop posting and start reading one of the billion other posts because you are soooo wrong it's sad.

Without ER the elmo smiter will cease to be effective because they can't sustain their energy well enough.

Mormegil · Sep 05, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Smite is good damage but it isn't dominating.

Can you please tell me why smite needs to be nerfed? If you can't counter smite then you need to go PvE. Sorry for sounding harsh, it's true.

Why do we keep hearing this BS? A Smite Build is very resilient to other builds, and if a high ranked guild (or a top tier PuG) plays it properly, it's simply devastating. A build with 2-3 e/mo's who know what they're doing will probably outdamage you in a matter of seconds if you're not more than prepared. Not to mention you can tweak here and there for interesting results.

Why do people keep saying that "smite builds are easy to counter"? It's bullshit. Don't spread misinformation.

Kai Nui · Sep 06, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Remember, if Anet hadn't changed the price to nothing on the runes, Invinci monks wouldn't have been nerfed. They were like the 15k armour of the monk... god damn, turn the tv down I can hardly think.

UberRusty · Sep 06, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Why do we keep hearing this BS?

People keep talking.

Quote:

god damn, turn the tv down I can hardly think.

ROFLMAO, WoC rocks.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 06, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Smiting Damage isn't that powerful to begin with. [If they made it affected by armor, then it'd be downright useless].

I run W/N with Rend Enchantments. About 90% of the time in pvp. You people complaining about ER with Armor of Earth are just too incompetent enough to realize that the necro curses line owns you.

[I'll just run Spell Breaker]

Good, one less damaging skill on your bar AND you can't have Spell Breaker on ya with ER unless a monk nearby casts it on you. [which means, said monk is going to die 3x faster...]

Nerf something that's uncounterable, not something that's easily countered...

Zeru · Sep 06, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Smiting damage isn't that strong on paper. 56 dps is mediocre; the key is that it's aoe, and that you will be able to buff the warriors with judges insight and strength of honor. If enchant removal wasn't so crappy maybe smiting wouldn't be so good.

Of course ether renewal is overpowered no matter which way you look.

Mormegil · Sep 06, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Nerf something that's uncounterable, not something that's easily countered...

I'm wondering where you are, super-players, when smiting teams hold the Hall 15 times in a row only to be beaten by another smiting team. I think you should play a little bit more, and "easily counter" smite builds more often. And why is that you never share your "counter-build"? I know, I know, you've got to keep it secret, or else everyone would be using it! Hell, it's so secret that no one's running it in Tombs, you're doing a damn good work!

/sarcasm off