Curse

Kariston The Swift · Nov 09, 2005, 05:03 AM // 05:03

I already searched for a topic on this and couldn't find one even though I thought I remembered reading about it before. Anyways anyone else having trouble with facing guilds in GvG with a 5000+ rank difference. I was GvGing with a friend's guild as a favor and his guild is 6000+ we faced 2 guilds that were below 500 out of the 4 matches. I just thought it was pretty crappy since they are new to GvG and got totally wiped. I felt bad so I thought I'd ask if anything was being done to correct this problem as the last fix only seemed to make things worse :0

Frank Dudenstein · Nov 09, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

well - here is my experience from tonight...

My guild is rank 100 or so - tonight we played 4 matches:
Match1: vs rank 4000
Match2: vs rank 25
Match3: vs rank 5000
Match4: vs rank10

Sounds like we may have faced your friends (or someone like them) ...

-Loki- · Nov 09, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

My guild is rank 100 or so - tonight we played 4 matches:
Match1: vs rank 4000
Match2: vs rank 25
Match3: vs rank 5000
Match4: vs rank10

Pretty much the same rank as ours, and pretty much what our GvG matchups look like.

Former Ruling · Nov 09, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

With "Random" systems - you take the good and the bad :\

Maagus · Nov 09, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

We are 45th or so.

Our GvGs from yesterday were :

- vs guild around 700
- vs guild around 130
- vs guild around 100

Our lowest ranked opponent ever was guild around 2000 but that was a while ago. Now were getting mostly guilds from the ladder and pretty often from top 100 - 150.
We play in the evenings (around 8:00 pm - 10:00 pm CET).

Sarus · Nov 09, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

You can play any guild instantly that is within 200 rating points of you. After 2 minutes the search is expanded (not sure how much). Eventually if nobody within your rating is looking for a match you will get paired up with a higher rank guild. If you're just starting GvG and your rating is 1000 (the base rating) then you can end up playing anyone up to rank 256 (currently at 1199 rating).

I would just try to roll with the punches and really focus on improving your play even when outclassed. Ask yourself "Why did this team just wipe the floor with us" and see if you can apply some of those things when your team plays. Of course if you're a totally casual team that doesn't care about getting better then you can expect to loose a lot of matches and I there isn't much to be done about it given the current level of activity on the ladder.

Uzul · Nov 09, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

the amount of time you "wait for a worthy opponent" designates how far the rank can spread from your own - to make sure you fight someone from your ranks just re-start the timer every 2 minutes: this should help keeping the opponent close to your own rank. >_<

sarus was a minute faster

tyssen tak

romO · Nov 09, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

well dont really talk about the rank. the rank has nothing to do with it. it just orders rating. rating is really how it determines where you stand on the ladder and how close of competition you should be facing and what will be "worthy". therefore, you may think the gap between rank 3000 and rank 500 is large because it is 2500 ranks, but when you look at rating, the teams really arent too unevenly matched.

Uzul · Nov 09, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

ah, this makes a lot of sense :-p
so the rating is what gets compared for the matchup as well?

romO · Nov 09, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

the rating is ALL that is taken into account when making a match. rank smiply displays the order of rating and is a measure of where guilds stand compared to one another. rating is the measure of how close guilds are in terms of skill (assuming both teams have played a sufficient amount of games).

Kep · Dec 15, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

the rating is ALL that is taken into account when making a match. rank smiply displays the order of rating and is a measure of where guilds stand compared to one another. rating is the measure of how close guilds are in terms of skill (assuming both teams have played a sufficient amount of games).

The last statement is very true. Rating is the measure of how close guilds are in terms of skill - asuuming they've have done sufficient amount of games. I used to be in underground uk, they used to have an extremely high rank - around 100-170 weekly. There rank wasn't because of skill though, it was beacause they had played more games than most other sides. They used to get drawn against Top20 one match, then Top1000 next match, of course rarely beating top100 guilds, but defeating top1000 easily. And because they did so many gvg, they got often drawn against low ranked teams, in turn keeping there rating high. So Rating is a measure of how close they are in terms of skill, except if the opponents have played much much much more gvg's than you have. So in this case skill can be measured on the amount of gvg's you've won, compared to the amount you've played. If you've won 120, but lost 70 you will be ranked around 100, but a guild with 30wins 0losses, will have the same rank, and be far more skilled.

Xenrath · Dec 15, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

I don't know why they don't add the ability to have unranked GvG matches, just for practice. Nobody gains any points whatsoever, nobody loses any points and it's just a friendly practice match. Most other competitive games have some kind of similar facility, why doesn't GW?

Denny Pace · Dec 15, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

I don't know why they don't add the ability to have unranked GvG matches, just for practice. Nobody gains any points whatsoever, nobody loses any points and it's just a friendly practice match. Most other competitive games have some kind of similar facility, why doesn't GW?

I'm assuming that you mean random unranked GvGs and, if so, I agree. If they are strictly for practice, learning the maps, coordination, testing builds, etc., this could only be a positive thing. Didn't the game once have that facility?

Quick comment on the low ranked guilds playing top ranked guilds: if a 'similarly' ranked guild can't be found within the first two minutes, there should be an option for a guild to accept or reject a match with someone ranked outside of that 'rank band', BEFORE the match starts. I know that rank doesn't change much when a Rank 500 guild loses to a Rank 7 guild, but it's still something I believe should be left to the guilds to agree on, rather than have every match, however mismatched, etched in stone.

Zobi · Dec 15, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

I don't know why they don't add the ability to have unranked GvG matches, just for practice. Nobody gains any points whatsoever, nobody loses any points and it's just a friendly practice match. Most other competitive games have some kind of similar facility, why doesn't GW?

I would very much like to see this implemented too, as our guild has many people with very little, or even none, GvG experience.

Elrodien · Dec 15, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

I don't know why they don't add the ability to have unranked GvG matches, just for practice. Nobody gains any points whatsoever, nobody loses any points and it's just a friendly practice match. Most other competitive games have some kind of similar facility, why doesn't GW?

I totally agree. My guild have tried arranging a friendly GvG before and it was that hard to set up we haven't bothered since. Random friendlies would benefit all concerned. Maybe Chapter 2 will have them?

Billiard · Dec 15, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

There is a sticky in the Guild Auditorium for guilds looking for unrated matches:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=87143

minor · Dec 15, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

My favorite mismatch is a friends story.
New guild never gvged 1st battle they played nuclear launch detected.....

Patrograd · Dec 15, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zobi

I would very much like to see this implemented too, as our guild has many people with very little, or even none, GvG experience.

Join the ESL (electronic Sports league) 8 v 8 ladder. Its not officially rated (so wont affect your guild rank) and most of the competing teams are top half in the ladder. we fight 5 or more GvGs under this system every week, often against top guilds like Rus Corps, EW. Gives us a great chance to practise builds and bring new players into the team without risk to our official Guild rank, and you can be pretty sure of regular matches against quality opposition.

http://www.esl-europe.net/eu/guildwars/

As for the matchup system on the official ladder, well its weird. We have fought about our last 20 matches all at home against higher ranked guilds, its like the lower ranked teams have stopped playing. Every time we pass 1200 in the rating system we play a side ranked sub 100, lose, win the next one against a team ranked say 350, draw another sub 100 guild, lose and so on.....getting boring now. Oh for one of those battles against a rank 5000 guild.....

Sephir Demange · Dec 16, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I think the point here is that the DEVELOPERS should help us out : P As players we can putter around on forums communities, or go out to a pvp area and spam for friendly unrated GvG but lets get real, the former limits the number of guilds you'll see on a friendly basis, and the latter is completely unreliable. A quick way to jump into a battle that doesn't affect rank will greatly help people breaking into GvG. It seems to be a logical progression though I'm sure there is a very good reason it hasn't been implemented yet. Plus, wouldn't it reduce the number of smurf guilds? I know I only use my smurf guild to practice GvG or hell, even GvG for fun without concern for rank. I really enjoy GvG and it has alot more tactically to look forward to when compared to Tombs.

Xenrath · Dec 16, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Yes, random unranked or something. I imagine it may not be that hard to implement, after all it would just be adding an extra flag "unrated" to the exisitng game search mechanism, and scoring system can check against that? Unless they've coded it some other way completely, no idea. Point is this would very much help newer GvG'ers because they get to practice a bit and don't get penalised for coming up against more experienced groups. Imagine if your first few games (in the present system) all happen to be against higher up guilds, you take a beating, your guild rank goes down. It's very discouraging and offputting, and in order to avoid dropping even further down you take part in even less GvG... not really an ideal situation.

With practice matches your group can do as many matches as you need until you're comfortable to compete properly. The real competitive matches get better, the starter guilds don't get penalised for being new, experienced guilds are more likely to face other experienced guilds... everyone's a winner!