Curse

Patrograd · May 16, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Dunno what part of the ladder you're talking about, but bsurge eles seem to have nearly faded out of the meta completely....

Starting to see split teams who run their stand team with a bsurge/warder and Aegis chains. Its pretty gay tbh

Lodurr · May 16, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Dunno what part of the ladder you're talking about, but bsurge eles seem to have nearly faded out of the meta completely....

I've seen a lot of them recently. People are afraid of running water hexes and running into an Expel P/Me or Hex Eater Vortex.

In the 400 - 100 range of the ladder.

Medion · May 16, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Yeah, all the Blinding Surge eles we've met are in the 400-100 range.

Thanks for the advice so far guys

.

Thomas.knbk · May 16, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

You have a burning arrow ranger in that build. That dude has Mending Touch and Distracting Shot on his bar. How can Bsurge be a problem?

wuzzman · May 28, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

people put draw conditions on the lod and runs an rc/prot monk....people are using necros now for anti-melee lol...but if anet nerfs necro hex's, people will just run blindbot again + wards. Wards is suicidal with the current ele elites. Blindbot's are diversion bait, or simply draw condition'ed by an lod/monk. Prepare to see alot of melee rush builds after they nerf necro hex'es.

just rude · Jun 06, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

WTB off monk condition removal

lord of shadow · Jun 06, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

get a ranger who doesn't suck

I Angra I · Jun 07, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Yeah like everyone else said, Draw is going to be your best bet for keeping your warriors blind-free and able to pressure and spike. Though if it's still giving you problems the ranger should be able to get on the ele and interrupt the blind. Like Squidget said earlier in the thread, just always be drawing off of warriors if you see conditions on them, unless you know it's a spike on them (then save that for the RC of course). I don't know how many times drawbots on my team have always waited around for me to call blind before they draw, and by the time they get around to it the blind has almost already worn off anyway.

Also for draw + orbing with the spike, just draw then orb a little later. Use it as followup damage sort of, since with your warriors clean there shouldn't be much more damage needed anyway.

Blame the Monks · Jun 07, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

simply draw condition. And Blindbot's are diversion bait.

OH NOES THEY DREW MY BLIND! Good thing I can put it back in 4 seconds with a 36% chance of 2 seconds. Even if the draw is only 1 second later, they still spend 20% of the game blind and are very spike resistant. Plus its a persistent nuisance (they have to dedicate a toon to stopping you wherever you go) -- a barrier they have to jump constantly and consistently before they can even begin to address the other defense. And you can always make plays on the draw/rc/mend if you feel like it.

OH SHIT THEY DIVERSIONED/DSHOTTED MY BLIND! FOR AN ENTIRE 53 SECONDS WE WILL HAVE TO RELY ON **ONLY** WARDS, PARA SHOUTS, AEGIS, 2 MONKS, AND A SOR ELE. WERE SCREWED!!~ That's why they stack defense up -- blind is not the only defense, its just the part that you have to pay constant attention to that takes you away from dshoting aegis and/or RCing cripples.

This nonsense about "just get a better ranger" is just e-posturing. Theorycraft all you like, but the bottom line is it works very well at any skill level, even at the top of the ladder.

Xioden · Jun 08, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

OH NOES THEY DREW MY BLIND! Good thing I can put it back in 4 seconds with a 36% chance of 2 seconds. Even if the draw is only 1 second later, they still spend 20% of the game blind and are very spike resistant. Plus its a persistent nuisance (they have to dedicate a toon to stopping you wherever you go) -- a barrier they have to jump constantly and consistently before they can even begin to address the other defense. And you can always make plays on the draw/rc/mend if you feel like it.

OH SHIT THEY DIVERSIONED/DSHOTTED MY BLIND! FOR AN ENTIRE 53 SECONDS WE WILL HAVE TO RELY ON **ONLY** WARDS, PARA SHOUTS, AEGIS, 2 MONKS, AND A SOR ELE. WERE SCREWED!!~ That's why they stack defense up -- blind is not the only defense, its just the part that you have to pay constant attention to that takes you away from dshoting aegis and/or RCing cripples.

This nonsense about "just get a better ranger" is just e-posturing. Theorycraft all you like, but the bottom line is it works very well at any skill level, even at the top of the ladder.

Blind, and stacked anti-melee hexes are the only real way to shutdown a melee spike. Wards aren't always going to have the entire team in them, and aegis tends to be an extra 100 damage in the spike or 5-10 energy for someone. And with a little luck, aegis/wards can be spiked through if you end up getting [really] desperate.

I love even more when people bring blinding surge warders to GvGs. It's fun to kill their stacked [all on one character] defense before it has a chance to do anything, and then proceed to kill something else while its down.

Blame the Monks · Jun 08, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

Wards aren't always going to have the entire team in them, and aegis tends to be an extra 100 damage in the spike or 5-10 energy for someone.

So why does it work in top 20 play and tournaments? Anyone can post about how their rock pawns scissors, but the reality is it works well despite everything you say.

Xioden · Jun 08, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

So why does it work in top 20 play and tournaments? Anyone can post about how their rock pawns scissors, but the reality is it works well despite everything you say.

I hate having to repeat myself; Blind, and stacked anti-melee hexes are the only real way to shutdown a melee spike. Wards aren't always going to have the entire team in them, and aegis tends to be an extra 100 damage in the spike or 5-10 energy for someone. And with a little luck, aegis/wards can be spiked through if you end up getting [really] desperate.

To elaborate further: Wards only stop direct damage. If they're killing you simply switch to a spear to build adrenaline and then spike someone outside of them, or interupt them and then kill the person using them.

For aegis; Simply remove it via any normal means (Mirror of disenchantment can work absolute wonders for removing it off the entire time), in the case of a good spike if your carrying shatter enchantment, its an extra 100 damage for the spike, or extra energy if its from drain. Or just glue someone with an interupt to someone casting aegis. 2 second casts = easy interupt, and gives you ~7-8 seconds of no aegis (minus half recharge on another aegis).

The only truely effective shutdown is hexoverload, and that is only due to the inability to effectively remove large numbers of hexes quite as frequently as they can throw some of them out.

Blind admittedly however, is the ultimate shutdown if the person with it knows what they're doing. To a warrior their like a mesmer to a monk, or a choking gas ranger to any caster. Anyone can take any of the roles and be an annoyance to their given choice target, but a good blinding surge ele will be able to shutdown many adrenal spikes simply with a well timed blind.

So yes, in summary when used as an active defense blind is a much better shutdown than passive defense or blind used as a passive defense (read: spammed on recharge).

sir lockt · Jun 08, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

I hate having to repeat myself; Blind, and stacked anti-melee hexes are the only real way to shutdown a melee spike. Wards aren't always going to have the entire team in them, and aegis tends to be an extra 100 damage in the spike or 5-10 energy for someone. And with a little luck, aegis/wards can be spiked through if you end up getting [really] desperate.

To elaborate further: Wards only stop direct damage. If they're killing you simply switch to a spear to build adrenaline and then spike someone outside of them, or interupt them and then kill the person using them.

In your entire post you havent said anything really really wrong. But please consider what is (imo) Blame the monks point: Also a Warder can know what he is doing and very effectively deploy wards. This fact can be proven by the succesfull deployment of these skills in all levels of the ladder

And stating how you pwn a character that brings "concentrated defense" doesnt help you a thing when your entire team is dead...

Xioden · Jun 08, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir lockt

In your entire post you havent said anything really really wrong. But please consider what is (imo) Blame the monks point: Also a Warder can know what he is doing and very effectively deploy wards. This fact can be proven by the succesfull deployment of these skills in all levels of the ladder

And stating how you pwn a character that brings "concentrated defense" doesnt help you a thing when your entire team is dead...

All it takes is one shock on a ward against melee and the warder becomes vulnerable.

If your entire team is dead within the time it takes for WAM to recharge, you weren't going to do well anyway.

Trevor · Jun 08, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

I hate having to repeat myself; Blind, and stacked anti-melee hexes are the only real way to shutdown a melee spike. Wards aren't always going to have the entire team in them, and aegis tends to be an extra 100 damage in the spike or 5-10 energy for someone. And with a little luck, aegis/wards can be spiked through if you end up getting [really] desperate.

To elaborate further: Wards only stop direct damage. If they're killing you simply switch to a spear to build adrenaline and then spike someone outside of them, or interupt them and then kill the person using them.

For aegis; Simply remove it via any normal means (Mirror of disenchantment can work absolute wonders for removing it off the entire time), in the case of a good spike if your carrying shatter enchantment, its an extra 100 damage for the spike, or extra energy if its from drain. Or just glue someone with an interupt to someone casting aegis. 2 second casts = easy interupt, and gives you ~7-8 seconds of no aegis (minus half recharge on another aegis).

The only truely effective shutdown is hexoverload, and that is only due to the inability to effectively remove large numbers of hexes quite as frequently as they can throw some of them out.

Blind admittedly however, is the ultimate shutdown if the person with it knows what they're doing. To a warrior their like a mesmer to a monk, or a choking gas ranger to any caster. Anyone can take any of the roles and be an annoyance to their given choice target, but a good blinding surge ele will be able to shutdown many adrenal spikes simply with a well timed blind.

So yes, in summary when used as an active defense blind is a much better shutdown than passive defense or blind used as a passive defense (read: spammed on recharge).

Or you can just be half-decent at Guild Wars and ignore this post.

lord of shadow · Jun 08, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

or a choking gas ranger to any caster.

I lol'd IRL
1234

Xioden · Jun 08, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

I lol'd IRL
1234

That falls into the same category as a mesmer who simply spams diversion on recharge. A good CG ranger is able to easy keep any caster with medium/long cast times (ie. Ele) shutdown just by shooting at them, and at the same time watch other players to interupt key skills with interupts.

So before I get dragged down further to the level of people who probably run nothing but paraway since they obviously feel spamming skills on recharge is making good use of their skills, I'll make a final point directed at the OP:

Having shock on the hammer/axe warrior can help quite a bit, they can just use it as an interupt for key skills (even through aegis/wards other than stability) as long as they're careful about the exhaustion. Once you interupt ward against melee you do get a nice window without it, then if blind is being a pain if whoever has condition removals isn't being pressured too badly, request a removal just before the spike. When your not splitting, don't forget about your burning arrow ranger who should ideally at least have one interupt (Distracting shot can help a lot depending on what they send back to counter the split, and having an interupt is never really bad).

Farin · Jun 09, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Or you can just be half-decent at Guild Wars and ignore this post.

qft, bacon wins

wuzzman · Jun 09, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

OH NOES THEY DREW MY BLIND! Good thing I can put it back in 4 seconds with a 36% chance of 2 seconds. Even if the draw is only 1 second later, they still spend 20% of the game blind and are very spike resistant. Plus its a persistent nuisance (they have to dedicate a toon to stopping you wherever you go) -- a barrier they have to jump constantly and consistently before they can even begin to address the other defense. And you can always make plays on the draw/rc/mend if you feel like it.

OH SHIT THEY DIVERSIONED/DSHOTTED MY BLIND! FOR AN ENTIRE 53 SECONDS WE WILL HAVE TO RELY ON **ONLY** WARDS, PARA SHOUTS, AEGIS, 2 MONKS, AND A SOR ELE. WERE SCREWED!!~ That's why they stack defense up -- blind is not the only defense, its just the part that you have to pay constant attention to that takes you away from dshoting aegis and/or RCing cripples.

This nonsense about "just get a better ranger" is just e-posturing. Theorycraft all you like, but the bottom line is it works very well at any skill level, even at the top of the ladder.

Hey, HEY!! I thought you was talking about just blind boting. Yeah MONKS DO RUN OUT OF ENERGY FROM FREQUENT DRAW CONDITIONS!!!!! Even if said blind bot just spamed blind over and over and over again with no skill involved, your monk is running on 2 energy swap ^_^. Combine that with wards + aegis chain.

Nerf wards + aegis chain and then we can talk about "active" defenses.

Blame the Monks · Jun 09, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

MONKS DO RUN OUT OF ENERGY FROM FREQUENT DRAW CONDITIONS!!!!!

It just gets better and better.